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Tchiowa

Seems a pretty effective way to get info w/o ripping out fingernails our having your head beat in with a telephone book.


What do you think ?

Texpat

Certainly beats getting blasted through the forehead with a tumbling 5.56 round, which was the likely alternative.

Sparky

Well when the life or death of innocent people may be effected by the information the prisoner could divulge what are the alternatives ???

Ask the local vicar to have a little chat with him and appeal to his scence of fair play !

Or the Priest to ask him if he would like to come to confessional !!!!

I think Russian Roulet show him the single bullet put it in the chamber let him watch you spin it ask him the question , no answer pull the trigger
repeat the process untill he either answers or runs out of luck .

Lily

Of course it is torture.

Norton

Agree.

Probably none.

The big problem with interrogation via torture is the validity of the information one receives. It is only obvious most will admit or say whatever they think the interrogator wants to hear just to have them stop!

Lot's of devil worshiping witches burned in Salem and heretics in Europe during the inquisition.

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kingwilly

sheet, i thought this thread was about wakeboarding......

chinthee

To me, torture connotes the ideas of maiming, disfigurement, permanent physical or emotional damage or excruciating pain, such as teeth pulling.

So, to me, NO, waterboarding is not torture. It is not life threatening. It leaves no permanent physical scars or recurring pains. True, it is emotionally a torture, but that doesn't count to me.

NO.

Milkman

^ great point, by CT.

Also, if the information derived from waterboarding can prevent an attack the kills, maims, and disfigures innocent civilians, that this form of getting information (waterboarding) is justified, IMO.

But we need to make sure the appropriate people are candidates for it.

lom

The method will be worthless then as soon as the victim learns that it will not cause him any harm..

chinthee

^ EXACTLY! I was thinking that how easy it would be to make waterboarding obsolete if the grapevine carried the info in the ether that you won't die or be permanently damaged. It will be rendered useless. good post.

Lily

So if they only think they are going to die, it is ok?



You dont think that there may be some permanent emotional damage from waterboarding and being powerless to stop someone from doing it?

It is torture but whether it is justified or not, should be the real argument.

If it weren't torture, it would not be successful in gaining info.


added; But it would still be successful even if the people knew that they wouldn't die. It attacks our survival instincts and when we cant breathe it is terrifying.

chinthee

^No, to me emotional torture is fair play. It's justified.

Lily

Well, you are agreeing with me.

It is torture but the argument is 'Is it justified?'

I dont think any torture is justified.

Whiteshiva

And who will be the ones who decide that?

Besides, should we only apply torture (which is what this surely is) only when the prisoner is known to have crucial information that may save lives, or is simply a suspicion that he may have it sufficient to warrant torture? Or perhaps we should torture all prisoners, just in case....?

And when do we stop? How do we know he isn't still withholding crucial information after having been tortured for, say an hour, a day, or a week?

And, if we allow this practice, aren't we really becoming just as bad as the terrorists we are trying to fight? If we loose our moral superiority, on what grounds are we then claiming what is right and wrong?

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Lily

Agree fully!

chinthee

Yes, i agree with you. It's torture but justified.

chinthee

You should all go back and watch the very old movie of Dustin Hoffman, the Marathon Man.

Now, that is REAL torture. Emotional torture designed to elicit information is not in the same category as life altering maiming, disfiguring, and recurring pain torture.

Whiteshiva

So electrical shocks and mock executions are also OK, then?

chinthee

^Not sure about electrical shocks, I think they may be physically damaging. As far as mock executions...no problem.

Lily

^That is where we disagree, then.

By the rules of the two Geneva Conventions, I think the US could be tried for war crimes for particpating in this.

Throughout history, torture has often been used as a method of effecting political re-education. In the 21st century, torture is widely considered to be a violation of human rights, and discouraged by article 5 of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights. In times of war signatories of the Third Geneva Convention and Fourth Geneva Convention agree not to torture protected persons (POWs and enemy civilians) in armed conflicts.