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chinthee

^That just shows the superiority of the US forces.

raycarey

that's what they all say, tough guy. ready for your "dunk in the water"?

and btw, how many people have been freed from death row because of DNA evidence?

really? is that what you bet? why is that? why would you even be thinking that? before you answer, i just want to make it clear that i'm not interested. i'm flattered, i guess....but....i just don't think about you that way.


on this board? name them.

i do know people (not family) who were killed in terrorist attacks, and it hasn't change my position on whether torture is moral, ethical, or effective. you see chitown, i have principles. i'll leave flying off the handle and acting irrationally to the likes of you.

it seems there are too many '24' viewers on this thread......we can save those innocent kindergarten students and nuns if we just torture that swarthy looking guy! let's do it! USA! USA!

chitown

i do know people (not family) who were killed in terrorist attacks, and it hasn't change my position on whether torture is moral, ethical, or effective. you see chitown, i have principles. i'll leave flying off the handle and acting irrationally to the likes of you.

So you have been a pussy your whole life??

it seems there are too many '24' viewers on this thread......we can save those innocent kindergarten students and nuns if we just torture that swarthy looking guy! let's do it! USA! USA!

No, never saw the show. Real life events have shaped my views.

__________________
I know I am behaving badly, but I have every intention of behaving badly. As a matter of fact, this is exactly the kind of situation where one should behave badly.

chitown

that's what they all say, tough guy. ready for your "dunk in the water"?

And I should try out the electric chair because I am for capital punishment. You have to be gay.......

Texpat

Airman Magazine
February 2000

Jason Cunningham’s body begged for air. Submerged 9 feet under, the airman’s lungs prickled and burned, feeling as if they’d burst like a pair of overinflated truck tires. By reflex, his nervous system declared a state of emergency — DEFCON 1. Every instinct urged him to burst to the surface and suck in cool, fresh air.

But he ignored the red alert blaring in his brain and stayed below for several minutes. Soon the throbbing in his chest ceased, his peripheral vision collapsed and the world around him faded to black.

Cunningham lost consciousness and sank to the bottom of the pool.
Immediately, a group of rugged men wearing black neoprene suits and scuba gear hauled him out of the pool and revived him. One of the men, who hovered over him, asked, “You OK? You OK? Did you meet the wizard?”

At the time, still reeling from the fog of delirium, Cunningham could only manage a gurgled “Huh?” but later recounted his near-death experience.

“Once you pass out the first time, you get used to it,” said the 24-year-old from Camarillo, Calif. “It’s like — it hurts, it hurts, and boom, you’re asleep. Then you wake up, some-body’s slapping your face, and you’ve got this oxygen mask covering your mouth. It’s really not that bad, no big deal.”

Read the whole story here:

Superman School

chinthee

Right on!

chitown

Ted Kenedy is against water boarding.

He just can't get over the fact that the CIA ops are not drunk like he when Mary Jo Kopechne drown in Chapaquitic Lake.

He thinks the terrorist will all drown and the CIA will try to cover it up......just like he did!

Ted is on the side of the terrorists. He knows that you have to be careful what you wish for because he knows it could come back to haunt you. Now if it was liquor boarding he'd be first in line to advocate that. Forget the fact that the "religion of peace" can't drink. He's not a member of that religion he's just on their side. More accurately he's not on our side and if that means we may have to liquor board him bring it on. After all he's a man of principal and if that means he has to withstand a little "torture" so be it.

raycarey

"right on" what?

1. he wasn't waterboarded.

2. he knew he wasn't going to be killed---the highly controlled situation was like a cross between jackass and the xgames. the scenario laid out in the 'superman' article was very unlike what would happen to the people 'extraordinary renditioned' to some eastern european gulag.

i suppose it was naive to think that any of the tough guys here would actually be willing to be waterboarded....despite all the virtual chest puffing in their posts. but why hasn't anyone addressed my point about the hundreds of death row inmates released on DNA evidence? or how about my question regarding the moral high ground...you know, when america actually stood for something besides fear.

Texpat

You're a blowhard ray, waterboarding isn't torture.

Don't try to change the subject. Just admit it's a bit of non-invasive titty-twisting to get a pig to squeal.

You seem either soft or stupid, which is it?

chitown

You really have a thing for tough guys don't you?

As I said, I am not in custody, and have no reason to be water boarded.

I know this, you are not a tough guy......

chitown

But, let me guess, you are from the UK? Where more Mussies have flooded into than you can handle.

raycarey

oh, ok. that should end the debate in congress and the mods can lock the thread. thank god we have someone like you around to let us know how things 'really are'.


how did i try to change the subject? if anyone did it was you.....posting a propaganda piece about some guy in a pool surrounded by scuba divers.

so you're up for it then? name the time and place, and we'll have TD get together.

ah....that didn't take long. how long til you label me a terrorist sympathizer?

raycarey

and as i said....what about the hundreds of people released from death row on DNA evidence? how many people were released from guantanamo years after being abducted?
who do you think is prosecuting this war? while you might consider them to be intelligent, honorable, and trustworthy....the evidence is to the contrary.

wrong.....again.

chitown

Or Europe maybe? Will the Americans have to bail you out again?????

raycarey

in addition to the points i restated in post # 48....i'd also like to restate this one....what about the false positives that result from torture?

feel free to address them in any order you wish.

chitown

WASHINGTON - The CIA's waterboarding of a top al-Qaida figure was approved at the top levels of the U.S. government, a former CIA agent said Tuesday as agency director Gen. Michael Hayden prepared for questioning by congressional panels about the destruction of videotapes of terror suspect interrogations.

According to the former agent, waterboarding of Abu Zubaydah got him to talk in less than 35 seconds. The technique, which critics say is torture, probably disrupted "dozens" of planned al-Qaida attacks, said John Kiriakou, a leader of the team that captured Zubaydah, a major al-Qaida figure.
Kiriakou did not explain how he knew who approved the interrogation technique but said such approval comes from top officials.
"This isn't something done willy nilly. This isn't something where an agency officer just wakes up in the morning and decides he's going to carry out an enhanced technique on a prisoner," he said Tuesday on NBC's "Today" show. "This was a policy made at the White House, with concurrence from the National Security Council and Justice Department."
Each time CIA agents wished to use waterboarding or any other harsh interrogation technique, they had to present a "well-laid out, well-thought out reason" to top government officials, Kiriakou said. In Zubaydah's case, Kiriakou said the waterboarding had immediate effect.
"The next day, he told his interrogator that Allah had visited him in his cell during the night and told him to cooperate," Kiriakou said in an interview first broadcast Monday evening on ABC News' World News. "From that day on, he answered every question. The threat information he provided disrupted a number of attacks, maybe dozens of attacks."
Details of Zubaydah's interrogation came as Hayden prepared for two days of questioning by the Senate and House intelligence panels about the CIA's destruction of the videotapes. Both are closed sessions.
Kiriakou said he did not know the interrogation of Zubaydah was being recorded by the CIA and did not know the tapes subsequently were destroyed.
"Like a lot of Americans, I'm involved in this internal, intellectual battle with myself weighing the idea that waterboarding may be torture versus the quality of information that we often get after using the waterboarding technique," Kiriakou, now retired from the CIA, told ABC News. "And I struggle with it."
He added: "What happens if we don't waterboard a person and we don't get that nugget of information and there's an attack. I would have trouble forgiving myself. ... At the time, I felt that waterboarding was something that we needed to do."
Waterboarding is a harsh interrogation technique that involves strapping down a prisoner, covering his mouth with plastic or cloth and pouring water over his face. The prisoner quickly begins to inhale water, causing the sensation of drowning.
Hayden told CIA employees last week that the CIA taped the interrogations of two alleged terrorists in 2002. He said the harsh questioning was carried out only after being "reviewed and approved by the Department of Justice and by other elements of the Executive Branch." Hayden said Congress was notified in 2003 both of the tapes' existence and the agency's intent to destroy them.
The White House refuses to talk about specific types of interrogation techniques but insists that the United States does not torture.
The CIA destroyed the tapes in November of 2005. Exactly when Congress was notified and in what detail is in dispute.
Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., said the CIA claims it told the committee of the tapes' destruction at a hearing in November 2006. Rockefeller said, however, that the hearing transcript found no mention of that subject.
The House committee first learned the tapes had been destroyed in March 2007, according to Committee Chairman Rep. Silvestre Reyes, D-Texas.
In last week's message, Hayden told CIA employees that "the leaders of our oversight committees in Congress were informed of the videos years ago and of the Agency's intention to dispose of the material. Our oversight committees also have been told that the videos were, in fact, destroyed."
But Reyes said Monday that Hayden's claim that Congress was properly notified "does not appear to be true

Norton

A snippet from the last Republican debate. As much as I would like to see the rotten bastards get what coming to them, I have got to go with McCain on this one.

"ANDERSON COOPER: Is waterboarding torture?
MITT ROMNEY: And as I just said, as a presidential candidate, I don’t think it’s wise for us to describe specifically which measures we would and would not use. And that is something which I would want to receive the counsel not only of Senator McCain, but of a lot of other people. And there are people who, for many, many years, get the information we need to make sure that we protect our country.
And, by the way, I want to make sure these folks are kept at Guantanamo. I don’t want the people that are carrying out attacks on this country to be brought into our jail system and be given legal representation in this country. I want to make sure that what happened to Khalid Sheikh Mohammed happens to other people who are terrorists. He was captured. He was the so-called mastermind of the 9/11 tragedy. And he turned to his captors, and he said, “I’ll see you in New York with my lawyers.” I presume ACLU lawyers. That’s not what happened. He went to Guantanamo, and he met GIs and CIA interrogators, and that’s just exactly how it ought to be.
ANDERSON COOPER: Senator McCain? There were reports Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded.
SEN. JOHN McCAIN: Well, Governor, I’m astonished that you haven’t found out what waterboarding is.
MITT ROMNEY: I know what waterboarding is, Senator.
SEN. JOHN McCAIN: Then I am astonished that you would think such a—such a torture would be inflicted on anyone in our—who we are held captive and anyone could believe that that’s not torture. It’s in violation of the Geneva Conventions. It’s in violation of existing law. And, Governor, let me tell you, if we’re going to get the high ground in this world and we’re going to be America that we have cherished and loved for more than 200 years, we’re not going to torture people. We’re not going to do what Pol Pot did. We’re not going to do what’s being done to Burmese monks as we speak. And I suggest that you talk to retired military officers and active-duty military officers like Colin Powell and others, and how in the world anybody could think that that kind of thing could be inflicted by Americans on people who are held in our custody is absolutely beyond me.
ANDERSON COOPER: Governor Romney, thirty seconds to respond to this.
MITT ROMNEY: Senator McCain, I appreciate your strong response, and you have the credentials upon which to make that response. I did not say and I do not say that I’m in favor of torture. I am not. I’m not going to specify the specific means of what is and what is not torture so that the people that we capture will know what things we’re able to do and what things we’re not able to do. And I get that advice from Cofer Black, who is a person who was responsible for counterterrorism in the CIA for some thirty-five years. I get that advice by talking to former generals in our military. And I don’t believe—
ANDERSON COOPER: Time.
MITT ROMNEY: I don’t believe it’s appropriate for me, as a presidential candidate, to lay out all of the issues one by one—
ANDERSON COOPER: Time.
MITT ROMNEY: —get questioned one by one: Is this torture? Is that torture?
ANDERSON COOPER: Senator McCain—
MITT ROMNEY: That’s something which I’m going to take your and other people’s counsel on.
ANDERSON COOPER: Senator McCain, thirty seconds to respond.
SEN. JOHN McCAIN: Well, then you would have to advocate that we withdraw from the Geneva Conventions, which were for the treatment of people who are held prisoner, whether they be illegal combatants or regular prisoners of war, because it’s clearly the definition of torture. It’s in violation of laws we have passed. And, again, I would hope that we would understand, my friends, that life is not 24 and Jack Bauer."



Democracy Now! | Romney, McCain Spar on Waterboarding and Torture at GOP Debate

__________________
Eat right, exercise daily, live clean, die anyway.

chitown

^ Do the Mussies adhere to the Geneva Convention?????

Norton