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obsidian · 11-12-2007, 04:37 PM

yup...

and unjustified

Sparky · 11-12-2007, 05:13 PM

Look at this scenario your just an innocent civilian in Afghanistan or Iraq all off a sudden you find your self in the hands of militants . What do you think your chances of not being tortured or brutally murderd are ?. Even though you know nothing regarding the military the war or anything else that they couldnt read in a newspaper for themselves .

If it were me I would start making my piece with God straight away because your chances are very close to nil .

That would make you reconsider all your nice views about oh no we cant torture them , and namby pamby ideas like that human rights etc !!!!!!!

Boon Mee · 11-12-2007, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texpat

Certainly beats getting blasted through the forehead with a tumbling 5.56 round, which was the likely alternative.

Listening to Britney Spears at 110db was the real torture that broke KSM - waterboarding was just for the press...

Tchiowa · 11-12-2007, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texpat

Certainly beats getting blasted through the forehead with a tumbling 5.56 round, which was the likely alternative.

Listening to Britney Spears at 110db was the real torture that broke KSM - waterboarding was just for the press...

LOL!

Doubt the music drove him over the edge.

Kind of a funny discussion when the adversaries in question openly decapitate and film their prey, if only we had the fortitude to get our point across so unambiguously.

Texpat · 11-12-2007, 06:56 PM

Slicing the head off at the neck is much more humane.

Part of the reason the enemies can be so brutal is they know the restrictions placed on their enemies. They're not hindered by these encumbrances.

They know enemy forces will not bomb mosques, so that's where they hide their weapons. Minarets make great sniping positions.

Waterboarding is emotional torture just like threatening to spank your child is emotional abuse. Don't confuse humiliation and torture.

Some say throwing an enemy out of a helo hovering at 3 feet is torture. (so what if the captive thought it was much more)

So what. Level the playing field. The extremists have no rules, why should we hobble ourselves?

Milkman · 11-12-2007, 07:00 PM

[quote=Whiteshiva;473887]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milkman

^ great point, by CT.

Also, if the information derived from waterboarding can prevent an attack the kills, maims, and disfigures innocent civilians, that this form of getting information (waterboarding) is justified, IMO.

But we need to make sure the appropriate people are candidates for it.

Quote:

And who will be the ones who decide that?

Yes, this is my concern.

November Rain · 11-12-2007, 07:03 PM

OK,

What the heck is waterboarding (apart from a non-lethal form of torture practiced by Americans, as I've deduced from the thread)?

Signed,

Thicky von Thick-Thick.

chitown · 11-12-2007, 07:06 PM

So if they only think they are going to die, it is ok?

Answer :YES

You dont think that there may be some permanent emotional damage from waterboarding and being powerless to stop someone from doing it?

Answer: People that cut people's heads off and commit terrorist attacks already have emotional damage.

It is torture but whether it is justified or not, should be the real argument.
Answer: I think it is great. If it saved the life of one of your children by keeping them safe, then you would be for it too.

If it weren't torture, it would not be successful in gaining info.

Answer: Whatever it takes to get the job done. If they would just quit killing people and enjoy the wealth that their oil brings, then I would be happy....even paying more for gas.

added; But it would still be successful even if the people knew that they wouldn't die. It attacks our survival instincts and when we cant breathe it is terrifying.

Answer: They could tell what they know before going for a dunk in the water. They choose to keep quiet and have to endure the water boarding for their lack of cooperation. They are lucky I am not in charge. I would sink them to the bottom of the ocean with an anchor chained to them....after I got some info from them by water boarding them.

Ban Saray · 11-12-2007, 07:19 PM

Yes it's torture, and the great leaders of this world should be tried for war crimes. Has anyone noticed the erosion of civil liberties since this current round of scum took over???
All in the name of the holy oil barrel.

chitown · 11-12-2007, 07:24 PM

^ Methinks that the Arabs made a barrel of oil holy........

chinthee · 11-12-2007, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ban Saray

Yes it's torture, and the great leaders of this world should be tried for war crimes. Has anyone noticed the erosion of civil liberties since this current round of scum took over???
All in the name of the holy oil barrel.

Total horse hockey. So simplistic to blame every action on oil.

chitown · 11-12-2007, 07:34 PM

^

You should spread some reputation around before giving it to Chintee again.

raycarey · 11-12-2007, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norton

The big problem with interrogation via torture is the validity of the information one receives. It is only obvious most will admit or say whatever they think the interrogator wants to hear just to have them stop!

this is the point that some here seem to have conveniently overlooked. one the guys waterboarded by the US a few years back said that there were imminent attacks at shopping malls, banks, nuclear power plants, apartment buildings, etc... and thousands of FBI and police were sent out....but he was just trying to stop the torture. he was lying to stop the torture.

america used to occupy the moral high ground....but no more.

and the military personnel who are actually fighting in iraq or afghanistan (interestingly enough, that includes exactly none of our resident proponents of waterboarding), will be on the receiving end of even more heinous torture.

and btw, a beheading is certainly more humane than dropping a cluster bomb.

raycarey · 11-12-2007, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texpat

Waterboarding is emotional torture just like threatening to spank your child is emotional abuse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chitown

a dunk in the water.

wow. it doesn't sound too bad at all, does it? so which one of your tough guys would like to volunteer for a session of waterboarding?

remember, it's just a dunk in the water. think of it as simply humiliation.

chitown · 11-12-2007, 07:38 PM

6^ And the moral high gound is flying planes into building in America, and blowing up things in the UK and Europe??

Everyone of you that posts these sort of things would change your minds faster than a fart in awindstorm if your MOM, DAD, BROTHER, SISTER, WIFE or HUSBAND was killed by a terrorist.

I qoute Rambo when it comes to terrorists - You drew first blood........

Texpat · 11-12-2007, 07:38 PM

The moral high ground just gets you killed faster.

chitown · 11-12-2007, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raycarey

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texpat

Waterboarding is emotional torture just like threatening to spank your child is emotional abuse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chitown

a dunk in the water.

wow. it doesn't sound too bad at all, does it? so which one of your tough guys would like to volunteer for a session of waterboarding?

remember, it's just a dunk in the water. think of it as simply humiliation.

Listen Ray Fairy - this tough guy did not do shit to be put into the position of being water boarded.

chitown · 11-12-2007, 07:44 PM

And while you are being such a pussy Ray, just remeber that it is guys like you that have put a pacifier in these murder's mouths that have caused us to be in the mess that we are in.

I bet you would give a rim job to one of those terrorists just before he cut your head off!

Texpat · 11-12-2007, 07:47 PM

Can't be that bad if the whimpy US Special Forces do it to each other during training, can it?

Even the Air Force, the powder puff service, has pararescuemen and combat controllers that routinely pass out while being held under water during training. Of course medics are always on hand. These are guys that volunteer to have it done.

Imagine that, guys being waterboarded by choice.

Texpat · 11-12-2007, 07:49 PM

duplicate post

11-12-2007, 07:06 PM	#28 (permalink)
chitown "The Big Onion" Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bangkok Posts: 4,704	So if they only think they are going to die, it is ok? Answer :YES You dont think that there may be some permanent emotional damage from waterboarding and being powerless to stop someone from doing it? Answer: People that cut people's heads off and commit terrorist attacks already have emotional damage. It is torture but whether it is justified or not, should be the real argument. Answer: I think it is great. If it saved the life of one of your children by keeping them safe, then you would be for it too. If it weren't torture, it would not be successful in gaining info. Answer: Whatever it takes to get the job done. If they would just quit killing people and enjoy the wealth that their oil brings, then I would be happy....even paying more for gas. added; But it would still be successful even if the people knew that they wouldn't die. It attacks our survival instincts and when we cant breathe it is terrifying. Answer: They could tell what they know before going for a dunk in the water. They choose to keep quiet and have to endure the water boarding for their lack of cooperation. They are lucky I am not in charge. I would sink them to the bottom of the ocean with an anchor chained to them....after I got some info from them by water boarding them. __________________ I know I am behaving badly, but I have every intention of behaving badly. As a matter of fact, this is exactly the kind of situation where one should behave badly.

11-12-2007, 07:49 PM	#40 (permalink)
Texpat ฝรั่งพูดมาก Last Online: Today 12:46 AM Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Nong Khai Posts: 9,772	duplicate post Last edited by Texpat : 11-12-2007 at 08:01 PM.

11-12-2007, 04:37 PM	#21 (permalink)
obsidian I am in Jail Last Online: Yesterday 04:54 PM Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 4,365	yup... and unjustified

11-12-2007, 05:13 PM	#22 (permalink)
Sparky Uttaradit Last Online: Yesterday 10:11 PM Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 550	Look at this scenario your just an innocent civilian in Afghanistan or Iraq all off a sudden you find your self in the hands of militants . What do you think your chances of not being tortured or brutally murderd are ?. Even though you know nothing regarding the military the war or anything else that they couldnt read in a newspaper for themselves . If it were me I would start making my piece with God straight away because your chances are very close to nil . That would make you reconsider all your nice views about oh no we cant torture them , and namby pamby ideas like that human rights etc !!!!!!!

11-12-2007, 06:56 PM	#25 (permalink)
Texpat ฝรั่งพูดมาก Last Online: Today 12:46 AM Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Nong Khai Posts: 9,772	Slicing the head off at the neck is much more humane. Part of the reason the enemies can be so brutal is they know the restrictions placed on their enemies. They're not hindered by these encumbrances. They know enemy forces will not bomb mosques, so that's where they hide their weapons. Minarets make great sniping positions. Waterboarding is emotional torture just like threatening to spank your child is emotional abuse. Don't confuse humiliation and torture. Some say throwing an enemy out of a helo hovering at 3 feet is torture. (so what if the captive thought it was much more) So what. Level the playing field. The extremists have no rules, why should we hobble ourselves?

11-12-2007, 07:03 PM	#27 (permalink)
November Rain Just whistle... Last Online: Yesterday 10:01 PM Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: South of Paradise City Posts: 6,014	OK, What the heck is waterboarding (apart from a non-lethal form of torture practiced by Americans, as I've deduced from the thread)? Signed, Thicky von Thick-Thick.

11-12-2007, 07:19 PM	#29 (permalink)
Ban Saray Samut Prakan Last Online: 22-11-2008 04:15 PM Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 443	Yes it's torture, and the great leaders of this world should be tried for war crimes. Has anyone noticed the erosion of civil liberties since this current round of scum took over??? All in the name of the holy oil barrel.

11-12-2007, 07:24 PM	#30 (permalink)
chitown "The Big Onion" Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bangkok Posts: 4,704	^ Methinks that the Arabs made a barrel of oil holy........

11-12-2007, 07:34 PM	#32 (permalink)
chitown "The Big Onion" Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bangkok Posts: 4,704	^ You should spread some reputation around before giving it to Chintee again.

11-12-2007, 07:38 PM	#35 (permalink)
chitown "The Big Onion" Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bangkok Posts: 4,704	6^ And the moral high gound is flying planes into building in America, and blowing up things in the UK and Europe?? Everyone of you that posts these sort of things would change your minds faster than a fart in awindstorm if your MOM, DAD, BROTHER, SISTER, WIFE or HUSBAND was killed by a terrorist. I qoute Rambo when it comes to terrorists - You drew first blood........

11-12-2007, 07:38 PM	#36 (permalink)
Texpat ฝรั่งพูดมาก Last Online: Today 12:46 AM Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Nong Khai Posts: 9,772	The moral high ground just gets you killed faster.

11-12-2007, 07:44 PM	#38 (permalink)
chitown "The Big Onion" Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bangkok Posts: 4,704	And while you are being such a pussy Ray, just remeber that it is guys like you that have put a pacifier in these murder's mouths that have caused us to be in the mess that we are in. I bet you would give a rim job to one of those terrorists just before he cut your head off!

11-12-2007, 07:47 PM	#39 (permalink)
Texpat ฝรั่งพูดมาก Last Online: Today 12:46 AM Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Nong Khai Posts: 9,772	Can't be that bad if the whimpy US Special Forces do it to each other during training, can it? Even the Air Force, the powder puff service, has pararescuemen and combat controllers that routinely pass out while being held under water during training. Of course medics are always on hand. These are guys that volunteer to have it done. Imagine that, guys being waterboarded by choice.