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hillbilly · 25-01-2006, 06:34 PM

Is Thailand really that corrupt vs...America let's say.

I think Thailand tends to be more up in the face about the issue (sorta) while the states tend to be more sneaky (lobbyist type of thing).

I am talking about the big people; not the police on the street.

ChiangMai noon · 25-01-2006, 06:48 PM

^
i'm sure you have a very valid point, though in terms of investment and confidence in a country, the perception of corruption is probably more important than the actuality.

by the way the most recent corruption figure have Thailand as the 49th most corrupt nation with the USA in 14th place and the Finns as the least corrupt.

Dougal · 25-01-2006, 08:09 PM

I think the generally accepted corruption stats come from http://www.transparency.org/ Bangladesh are, if not top for corruption, then very close. I suspect that if the Deshis were producing the statistics they would appear mark themselves much lower down the scale and still be able to show that the results were valid.

I can't speak for America but I have become very cynical about corruption in the UK. As Hilly says it might not be so 'in your face' but that doesn't mean it isn't there.

kenkannif · 26-01-2006, 10:12 AM

Agree 100% Hilly, but then that's the annoying part of it here in Thailand....how blatant it is...which kind of makes you more angry as it's an insult to the people's here....oh shit I've just remembered

aging one · 26-01-2006, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiangMai noon

^
i'm sure you have a very valid point, though in terms of investment and confidence in a country, the perception of corruption is probably more important than the actuality.

by the way the most recent corruption figure have Thailand as the 49th most corrupt nation with the USA in 14th place and the Finns as the least corrupt.

Where is that survey from CMN?

ChiangMai noon · 26-01-2006, 10:38 AM

Here we go....AO

http://www.worldaudit.org/democracy.htm

William · 26-01-2006, 02:27 PM

I think this says it all really:

Quote:

Apparently, the Telecommunications Act of 2001 was amended to raise the statutory limit of foreign shareholding in Thai telecom companies from 25 per cent to 49 per cent.

Given that the amendment was signed last Friday, three days before the transaction took place, may one assume that the Thai Rak Thai government had amended the law to facilitate the deal?"

(discussion on the Shin deal) - source: The Nation 25/01/2006

aging one · 26-01-2006, 02:49 PM

Thanks CMN, and congrats Toxin you just took fiscal frugality to a new level you criminal you.

Dougal · 26-01-2006, 04:30 PM

You should remember that it is generally easier to go into another country and see with open eyes those things that we have come to ignore in our own.

Who remembers Kevin Taylor who was bankrupted by a malicious police prosecution simply to enable the discrediting of his friend John Stalker who was going to embarass the government through his findings in the Ulster 'Shoot to Kill' enquiry?

Hardly an isolated incident.

William · 26-01-2006, 04:51 PM

^ true; but one is left feeling that, possibly, Thai Rak Thai is a piss-take - given the sale was to a S'pore company

hillbilly · 26-01-2006, 05:11 PM

A good point William. The Thais that I have spoken with (well...my wife) think that this the stupidist thing in a long time.

Dougal · 26-01-2006, 05:16 PM

^

I'm definitely not saying that corruption is less in LOS just the way we view it.

Another example, perhaps less obvious, is the way traffic cops in LOS take cash off of motorists for minor infringements. I don't see the difference between that and the police in the UK siting traffic cameras deliberately to catch speeding - I'm not referring to cameras sited near schools but those placed 20 metres before a deristriction sign. The only difference is that in LOS the money is a direct donation and not an indirect one.

Or the Chancellor of the Exchequer changing the accounting rule so that he can raid company pension schemes and then telling the employees that they need to save more.

I get the impression that when Thais complain about corruption it is less from a desire to stamp it out than from the point that they don't get sufficient opportunity to join in.

William · 26-01-2006, 05:28 PM

^ actually Dougal, since [Thai] cops now get a comission on every ticket they issue, they are far less willing to accept your contribution to their Friday night piss-up

Dougal · 26-01-2006, 05:51 PM

^
That's something. I have only been caught once (in Phuket for not having my licence with me), I did get an official ticket and receipt at that time. It taught me to carry my documents in future.

obsidian · 24-03-2006, 08:32 PM

thaiand is utterly corrupt

obsidian · 24-03-2006, 08:35 PM

police have to bid on certain posts (via a bribe to his boss). the better the chances for illegal gain, the more it costs.

Dougal · 24-03-2006, 08:56 PM

Obsidian,

I don't know where you are form but I suspsect that if you open your eyes to yoru own country you will see that corruption exists there too - OK in different forms maybe.

Compare traffic police in Thailand to the UK for example. In Thailand I may get stopped and pay 200B direct to the copper. In the UK the authorities site speed cameras in places to deliberately catch people speeding - that's 3000B every time and no argument.

And I'm not talking about cameras next to schools and hospitals - we have cameras here 100 metres before a deristricted sign or where you exit a motorway.

In my view that is a corrupt practice - it's just a state sanctioned rateh than a personal one.

You want another example - I've worked for companies in the UK where management turned a blind eye to pilfering. They used it as a means to keep wages low.

Yes Thailand has corruption but so does everywhere else.

friscofrankie · 24-03-2006, 09:17 PM

The Op wasn't abut smal time corruption, but corruption on the scale fo 100's of millions or billions of dollars. Thailand ain't shit. Taksin's sale fo stock to a foreign company is small potatoes. The population is in an uproar, the government is getting weak and under huge pressure. Shit like this goes completely unoticed inthe states, Or it make headlines, the press gets in an frenzy for a week or two, congress holds an "investigation' and it eventually get's swept under the rug.
Thailand corrupt? They ain't gotta clue. Hell her the low-income workin' dude can get a sip from that trough. The graft supported exra services available to all and sundry make for a much more democratic distrubution of these options. back in the states fice figures is low, entry price for a small time official.

Fabian · 26-03-2006, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougal

I get the impression that when Thais complain about corruption it is less from a desire to stamp it out than from the point that they don't get sufficient opportunity to join in.

That's the point. I really think corruption is a great thing for those who can afford to pay. In not corrupt countires you are stuck in bureaucracy, in corrupt countries you can speed it up as long as you have got the cash.

hillbilly · 26-03-2006, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by friscofrankie

The Op wasn't abut smal time corruption, but corruption on the scale fo 100's of millions or billions of dollars... Shit like this goes completely unoticed inthe states, Or it make headlines, the press gets in an frenzy for a week or two, congress holds an "investigation' and it eventually get's swept under the rug.

Very true! In the states we have so many committees investigating shit, that nothing gets done. Unfornatuely (sp?), in this regard Thailand seems to be copying the US.

For example the NCC, decided to vote themselves a pay raise awhile back. Now, what do they do? Nothing, much like the states committees.

25-01-2006, 06:34 PM	#1 (permalink)
hillbilly Still trailer trash Last Online: Today 06:54 AM Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: BKK, 'D&G Resort' & Colorado Posts: 5,492	Is Thailand really that corrupt vs... Is Thailand really that corrupt vs...America let's say. I think Thailand tends to be more up in the face about the issue (sorta) while the states tend to be more sneaky (lobbyist type of thing). I am talking about the big people; not the police on the street. __________________ Travelling in Northern Thailand To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

25-01-2006, 06:48 PM	#2 (permalink)
ChiangMai noon ysbryd y nos Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: o dan y bryn Posts: 25,346	^ i'm sure you have a very valid point, though in terms of investment and confidence in a country, the perception of corruption is probably more important than the actuality. by the way the most recent corruption figure have Thailand as the 49th most corrupt nation with the USA in 14th place and the Finns as the least corrupt. __________________ I often feel that the whole forum is close to bursting with homoerotic frisson. *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* Last edited by ChiangMai noon : 25-01-2006 at 06:50 PM.

25-01-2006, 08:09 PM	#3 (permalink)
Dougal Dis-member Last Online: 30-11-2008 07:29 AM Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Head Rock Posts: 4,054	I think the generally accepted corruption stats come from http://www.transparency.org/ Bangladesh are, if not top for corruption, then very close. I suspect that if the Deshis were producing the statistics they would appear mark themselves much lower down the scale and still be able to show that the results were valid. I can't speak for America but I have become very cynical about corruption in the UK. As Hilly says it might not be so 'in your face' but that doesn't mean it isn't there. __________________ Lord, deliver us from e-mail.

24-03-2006, 09:17 PM	#18 (permalink)
friscofrankie Northern Hermit Last Online: Today 04:12 AM Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Chiangmai, Thailand Posts: 6,832	The Op wasn't abut smal time corruption, but corruption on the scale fo 100's of millions or billions of dollars. Thailand ain't shit. Taksin's sale fo stock to a foreign company is small potatoes. The population is in an uproar, the government is getting weak and under huge pressure. Shit like this goes completely unoticed inthe states, Or it make headlines, the press gets in an frenzy for a week or two, congress holds an "investigation' and it eventually get's swept under the rug. Thailand corrupt? They ain't gotta clue. Hell her the low-income workin' dude can get a sip from that trough. The graft supported exra services available to all and sundry make for a much more democratic distrubution of these options. back in the states fice figures is low, entry price for a small time official. __________________ For art to exist, for any sort of aesthetic activity to exist, a certain physiological precondition is indispensable: intoxication. insanity... To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

26-01-2006, 10:12 AM	#4 (permalink)
kenkannif Elite Member Last Online: 10-11-2006 11:41 AM Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,957	Agree 100% Hilly, but then that's the annoying part of it here in Thailand....how blatant it is...which kind of makes you more angry as it's an insult to the people's here....oh shit I've just remembered

26-01-2006, 10:38 AM	#6 (permalink)
ChiangMai noon ysbryd y nos Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: o dan y bryn Posts: 25,346	Here we go....AO http://www.worldaudit.org/democracy.htm

26-01-2006, 02:49 PM	#8 (permalink)
aging one Elite Member Last Online: Yesterday 01:44 PM Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,910	Thanks CMN, and congrats Toxin you just took fiscal frugality to a new level you criminal you.

26-01-2006, 04:30 PM	#9 (permalink)
Dougal Dis-member Last Online: 30-11-2008 07:29 AM Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Head Rock Posts: 4,054	You should remember that it is generally easier to go into another country and see with open eyes those things that we have come to ignore in our own. Who remembers Kevin Taylor who was bankrupted by a malicious police prosecution simply to enable the discrediting of his friend John Stalker who was going to embarass the government through his findings in the Ulster 'Shoot to Kill' enquiry? Hardly an isolated incident.

26-01-2006, 04:51 PM	#10 (permalink)
William Senior Member Last Online: Today 01:53 AM Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: In jail Posts: 5,853	^ true; but one is left feeling that, possibly, Thai Rak Thai is a piss-take - given the sale was to a S'pore company

26-01-2006, 05:11 PM	#11 (permalink)
hillbilly Still trailer trash Last Online: Today 06:54 AM Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: BKK, 'D&G Resort' & Colorado Posts: 5,492	A good point William. The Thais that I have spoken with (well...my wife) think that this the stupidist thing in a long time.

26-01-2006, 05:16 PM	#12 (permalink)
Dougal Dis-member Last Online: 30-11-2008 07:29 AM Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Head Rock Posts: 4,054	^ I'm definitely not saying that corruption is less in LOS just the way we view it. Another example, perhaps less obvious, is the way traffic cops in LOS take cash off of motorists for minor infringements. I don't see the difference between that and the police in the UK siting traffic cameras deliberately to catch speeding - I'm not referring to cameras sited near schools but those placed 20 metres before a deristriction sign. The only difference is that in LOS the money is a direct donation and not an indirect one. Or the Chancellor of the Exchequer changing the accounting rule so that he can raid company pension schemes and then telling the employees that they need to save more. I get the impression that when Thais complain about corruption it is less from a desire to stamp it out than from the point that they don't get sufficient opportunity to join in.

26-01-2006, 05:28 PM	#13 (permalink)
William Senior Member Last Online: Today 01:53 AM Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: In jail Posts: 5,853	^ actually Dougal, since [Thai] cops now get a comission on every ticket they issue, they are far less willing to accept your contribution to their Friday night piss-up

26-01-2006, 05:51 PM	#14 (permalink)
Dougal Dis-member Last Online: 30-11-2008 07:29 AM Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Head Rock Posts: 4,054	^ That's something. I have only been caught once (in Phuket for not having my licence with me), I did get an official ticket and receipt at that time. It taught me to carry my documents in future.

24-03-2006, 08:32 PM	#15 (permalink)
obsidian I am in Jail Last Online: Yesterday 04:54 PM Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 4,365	thaiand is utterly corrupt

24-03-2006, 08:35 PM	#16 (permalink)
obsidian I am in Jail Last Online: Yesterday 04:54 PM Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 4,365	police have to bid on certain posts (via a bribe to his boss). the better the chances for illegal gain, the more it costs.

24-03-2006, 08:56 PM	#17 (permalink)
Dougal Dis-member Last Online: 30-11-2008 07:29 AM Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Head Rock Posts: 4,054	Obsidian, I don't know where you are form but I suspsect that if you open your eyes to yoru own country you will see that corruption exists there too - OK in different forms maybe. Compare traffic police in Thailand to the UK for example. In Thailand I may get stopped and pay 200B direct to the copper. In the UK the authorities site speed cameras in places to deliberately catch people speeding - that's 3000B every time and no argument. And I'm not talking about cameras next to schools and hospitals - we have cameras here 100 metres before a deristricted sign or where you exit a motorway. In my view that is a corrupt practice - it's just a state sanctioned rateh than a personal one. You want another example - I've worked for companies in the UK where management turned a blind eye to pilfering. They used it as a means to keep wages low. Yes Thailand has corruption but so does everywhere else.

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