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kerux · 02-09-2007, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackgang

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerux

The ignorance of most Americans of any place other than the States is inexcusable, especially since they allow their government to interfere in just about every country on the planet, not to mention establish over 700 military bases.

Not truly so.
Some figure that you have to pay taxes no matter what, once you give politicians the power to take your money, they never reduce the amount but always increase it every chance they get, you have to pay so why worry about where they piss off the money.
Watching the international news just makes you realize that global warming or another ice age makes no difference and we ain't gonna be on this planet to many more years, so why sweat the nickel dime shit.

And yes you have got Barr confused with the flaming Dyke Rosie.

Yes, I did.

And I admire the Browns. They asked the IRS to show them the law that stated they had to pay income tax. The IRS couldn't and the Browns refused to pay. Now they are holed up at their house with the IRS in Waco fashion, trying to decide what to do. The problem was, the stupid jury, with the Browns tried in absentia, returned a guilty verdict. Stupid obliviots. The jury had a chance to knock the IRS down for the count and they f*cked up.

If I was back in the US, I would most certainly join them. Randy Weaver I believe is there. We need more of this to put an end to this

blackgang · 02-09-2007, 07:25 PM

The 16th amendment to the constitution should do the trick.
You can not beat them very easily, I beat them for 265k but it was doing it legal with bankruptcy,
If you do not file a return then you have broken the law and your ass will end up in jail, but if you file and do not pay then they have a legal right to seize property to satisfy the money owed, if no property to take then they can attach your wages and bank accounts and do anything possible to recover the money, if after 2 years after filing you still owe, then you can file a bankruptcy.

Been there,,Done that..

Boon Mee · 03-09-2007, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinthee

You know all this talk about how ethnocentric Americans are (or thick or stupid) makes me laugh. Thais are exactly the same. You find this anyplace where the locals don't think they need anybody or anyplace else.

Don't mistake this for stupidity. The US is not the world's only hyperpower by chance. A lot of its success stems from its Anglo-Saxon common law and cultural background.

Most of the US bashing stems from either jealousy, envy, disagreement with policies, or having met a very small percentage of the 300 million people and making rash judgments based on old stereotypes.

Just like everyone thinks all Aussies wrastle crockodiles.

You are certainly a welcome addition to this forum, chinthee!

kerux · 03-09-2007, 02:14 AM

Quote:

If you do not file a return then you have broken the law and your ass will end up in jail...

Not so. Filing tax returns is voluntary. Many have been deceived into believing it is mandatory to file tax returns.

The Browns, and many before them, have pointed that out very conclusively.

It is when you voluntarily file and enter the system and agree/admit you owe the tax, then the IRS can legally proceed as if you owe the tax.

And, if I'm not mistaken, the bankruptcy law was recently changed so that IRS debt can not be discharged during bankruptcy.

Narachon · 03-09-2007, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinthee

You know all this talk about how ethnocentric Americans are (or thick or stupid) makes me laugh. Thais are exactly the same. You find this anyplace where the locals don't think they need anybody or anyplace else.

This is true, you can find this lack of knowledge of the world all over the globe, even in Thailand. I had a Thai friend once ask me why I hadn't yet visited a mutual friend who had immigrated to Texas in order to marry a guy there. I told her that Texas is very far away from my state, it would not be very easy for me to do. I had to show her on a map how New York City And Austin are not any where near each other, actually it is the same distance as Chiang Mai is from Shanghai.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinthee

Don't mistake this for stupidity. The US is not the world's only hyperpower by chance. A lot of its success stems from its Anglo-Saxon common law and cultural background.

Most of the US bashing stems from either jealousy, envy, disagreement with policies, or having met a very small percentage of the 300 million people and making rash judgments based on old stereotypes.

I agree.
This is similar to the cases like when the most rich, popular and prettiest girl in a school is replaced by a new girl, who is even more prettier and and popular. The former top alpha girl , insecure in her new demoted role, becomes jealous and envious of the new girls position in the power social group, and the school in general. She secretly does not like the new girl,and sometimes bad mouths her behind her back, but being a veteran of the group, knows enough to still be good friends with her, and try to maintain good relations ( by giving advice, etc. ), in order to remain in the power hierarchy of that school....
Sort of what happens in this movie...

This ad picture of this movie sort of represents US - Europe relations, don't you think?...

And speaking of making rash judgments based on old stereotypes.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinthee

Just like everyone thinks all Aussies wrastle crockodiles.

......And to think that all this time I thought that Croc Wrestling ( along with World Geography ) was a major course in the core curriculum for Australian schools......

blackgang · 03-09-2007, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerux

Not so. Filing tax returns is voluntary. Many have been deceived into believing it is mandatory to file tax returns. The Browns, and many before them, have pointed that out very conclusively. It is when you voluntarily file and enter the system and agree/admit you owe the tax, then the IRS can legally proceed as if you owe the tax.

You go on believing that shit if you want to, I fought it every way with lawyers costing me money.

When you make $2500.00 plus a week and file an EXEMPT W 4 form and take all your pay,less FICA home it is to your advantage to beat them.

wilcopedia;;

Quote:

For years for which no return has been filed, there is no statute of limitations on civil actions -- that is, on how long the IRS can seek taxpayers and demand payment of taxes owed.[26]
For each year a taxpayer willfully fails to timely file an income tax return, the taxpayer can be sentenced to one year in prison.[27] In general, there is a six-year statute of limitations for with respect to Federal tax crimes

Quote:

The Nature of Federal Income Tax System
The Tax Scam Artist's Lie: The filing of a tax return is voluntary.
Some assert that they are not required to file federal tax returns because the filing of a tax return is voluntary. Proponents point to the fact that the IRS itself tells taxpayers in the Form 1040 instruction book that the tax system is voluntary. Additionally, the Supreme Court's opinion in Flora v. United States, 362 U.S. 145, 176 (1960), is often quoted for the proposition that "[o]ur system of taxation is based upon voluntary assessment and payment, not upon distraint.
The Truth:
The word "voluntary," as used in Flora and in IRS publications, refers to our system of allowing taxpayers to determine the correct amount of tax and complete the appropriate returns, rather than have the government determine tax for them. The requirement to file an income tax return is not voluntary and is clearly set forth in Internal Revenue Code §§ 6011(a), 6012(a), et seq., and 6072(a). See also Treas. Reg. § 1.6011-1(a).
Any taxpayer who has received more than a statutorily determined amount of gross income is obligated to file a return. Failure to file a tax return could subject the noncomplying individual to criminal penalties, including fines and imprisonment, as well as civil penalties. In United States v. Tedder, 787 F.2d 540, 542 (10 th Cir. 1986), the court clearly states, "although Treasury regulations establish voluntary compliance as the general method of income tax collection, Congress gave the Secretary of the Treasury the power to enforce the income tax laws through involuntary collection . . . . The IRS' efforts to obtain compliance with the tax laws are entirely proper.
Relevant Case Law:
Helvering v. Mitchell, 303 U.S. 391, 399 (1938) - the U.S. Supreme Court stated that "[i]n assessing income taxes, the Government relies primarily upon the disclosure by the taxpayer of the relevant facts . . . in his annual return. To ensure full and honest disclosure, to discourage fraudulent attempts to evade the tax, Congress imposes [either criminal or civil] sanctions.
United States v. Tedder, 787 F.2d 540, 542 (10 th Cir. 1986) - the court upheld a conviction for willfully failing to file a return, stating that the premise "that the tax system is somehow 'voluntary' . . . is incorrect.
United States v. Richards, 723 F.2d 646, 648 (8 th Cir. 1983) - the court upheld conviction and fines imposed for willfully failing to file tax returns, stating that the claim that filing a tax return is voluntary "was rejected in United States v. Drefke, 707 F.2d 978, 981 (8 th Cir. 1983), wherein the court described appellant's argument as 'an imaginative argument, but totally without arguable merit.'.
Woods v. Commissioner, 91 T.C. 88, 90 (1988) - the court rejected the claim that reporting income taxes is strictly voluntary, referring to it as a "'tax protester' type" argument, and found Woods liable for the penalty for failure to file a return.

Whiteshiva · 03-09-2007, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinthee

In absolute terms, nobody can argue with the economic, political and military might of the US today.

Won any wars lately?

chinthee · 03-09-2007, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiteshiva

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinthee

In absolute terms, nobody can argue with the economic, political and military might of the US today.

Won any wars lately?

Just economic, cultural (movies, books, music), and political. Nobody wins military wars anymore.

I think it's the pervasive dominance of US culture, language, business etc., that has the rest of the world so angry and jealous. It seems to be especially prevalent among Brits in Thailand. Not sure why. Maybe because they think Blair was Bush's lapdog.

Marmite the Dog · 03-09-2007, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinthee

Nobody wins military wars anymore.

Err, just because the US can't doesn't mean it isn't done. Just ask the Argies.

Milkman · 03-09-2007, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiteshiva

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinthee

In absolute terms, nobody can argue with the economic, political and military might of the US today.

Won any wars lately?

Agree and also disagree Chinthee.

Another question may be: where is the U.S. headed economically, politically, and military from today until the next 50 years?

chinthee · 03-09-2007, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milkman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiteshiva

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinthee

In absolute terms, nobody can argue with the economic, political and military might of the US today.

Won any wars lately?

Agree and also disagree Chinthee.

Another question may be: where is the U.S. headed economically, politically, and military from today until the next 50 years?

That's a good question. You know naysayers have been predicting the downfall of everything from the property market to the stock market. It all seems to be a series of corrections, and keeps barreling on.

For me the key distinction that will keep the US on top of China for awhile is the absolute global superiority in technology development, investment and spending. This sector is massive and creates new wealth daily.

AntRobertson · 03-09-2007, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinthee

I think it's the pervasive dominance of US culture, language, business etc., that has the rest of the world so angry and jealous. It seems to be especially prevalent among Brits in Thailand. Not sure why. Maybe because they think Blair was Bush's lapdog.

Or, perhaps, the inherent smugness of Americans to automatically presume that everyone wants to be like them and can hold no view that isn't less than complimentary without being 'angry or jealous'.

Just a thought.

Whiteshiva · 03-09-2007, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinthee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiteshiva

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinthee

In absolute terms, nobody can argue with the economic, political and military might of the US today.

Won any wars lately?

Just economic, cultural (movies, books, music), and political.

Now there I agree with you (apart from the political thingy). I have a great respect for what the US has achieved in terms of economy and creativity, and culturally, there has been some good things too (blues & jazz mainly!).

Politically, I don't really know if there is much to be proud of. A two party system with massive corruption and cronyism.....

Militarily? - in my opinion, when people start being proud of their military, they are heading down the wrong path. The less the military is used, the better the government has been doing its job, and vice versa. In a perfect society, the military should be just another government institution.

In my experience. most USians are actually rather nice people - a bit naive about the outside world, but still..... If they could only learn to be a bit less attention-seeking I am sure we would all get along much better. Learning how to speak instead of shouting would be a good start.....

And why do people from the US always refer to themselves as "Americans" when Canadians, Mexican, Brazillians, etc don't?

chinthee · 03-09-2007, 03:35 PM

^ Whiteshiva, All valid points. And, if you go back and look at how the British empire conducted itself during its reign, you can understand why Americans call themselves Americans.

Politically, not really mass corruption. Yes, cronyism is a valid claim. The point is the perfectly living document called the US constitution & bill of rights continues to root out all evil. Masterful document really.

AntRobertson · 03-09-2007, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinthee

The point is the perfectly living document called the US constitution & bill of rights continues to root out all evil. Masterful document really.

Mmm, some may beg to differ on that one.

Marmite the Dog · 03-09-2007, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinthee

And, if you go back and look at how the British empire conducted itself during its reign, you can understand why Americans call themselves Americans.

Didn't they want to be associated with civilising the world?

chinthee · 03-09-2007, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinthee

The point is the perfectly living document called the US constitution & bill of rights continues to root out all evil. Masterful document really.

Mmm, some may beg to differ on that one.

I've seen on some threads you're a lawyer. I'm one by training but didn't practice. But, I did study that document in depth and still wonder at its workings today, with the balance between the executive branch, President; the legislative branch Congress; and the Judicial Branch, Supreme court. They somehow manage to provide checks and balances and it all seems to work.

AntRobertson · 03-09-2007, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinthee

I've seen on some threads you're a lawyer. I'm one by training but didn't practice

Aye, I'm one by training and occupation but do fock all work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinthee

But, I did study that document in depth and still wonder at its workings today, with the balance between the executive branch, President; the legislative branch Congress; and the Judicial Branch, Supreme court. They somehow manage to provide checks and balances and it all seems to work.

Of that I have no doubt. Ignore me, I'm cynical by nature, really bored, and simply have misgivings about anything in writing purporting to be a comprehensive statement of anything (I offer the Amendments, recent fiddling with the Justice Dept. and political appointments to the Supreme Court as examples). But nothing is perfect, let alone any system of governing, so all things considered it's not bad.

chinthee · 03-09-2007, 03:59 PM

^ Well, we can and should be cynical and call a spade a spade. Fiddling with the Supreme Court, stacking the deck as it were, is nothing new. It all irons out. The much bigger danger today is judicial activism, rather than anything else IMO.

sabang · 03-09-2007, 03:59 PM

The only failings of a democracy such as the US are human failings.

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02-09-2007, 07:25 PM	#82 (permalink)
blackgang I am in Jail Last Online: 25-10-2009 08:00 PM Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Phetchabun city Posts: 13,218	The 16th amendment to the constitution should do the trick. You can not beat them very easily, I beat them for 265k but it was doing it legal with bankruptcy, If you do not file a return then you have broken the law and your ass will end up in jail, but if you file and do not pay then they have a legal right to seize property to satisfy the money owed, if no property to take then they can attach your wages and bank accounts and do anything possible to recover the money, if after 2 years after filing you still owe, then you can file a bankruptcy. Been there,,Done that..

03-09-2007, 03:35 PM	#94 (permalink)
chinthee Sundance is my bff Last Online: 10-08-2009 09:13 PM Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,028	^ Whiteshiva, All valid points. And, if you go back and look at how the British empire conducted itself during its reign, you can understand why Americans call themselves Americans. Politically, not really mass corruption. Yes, cronyism is a valid claim. The point is the perfectly living document called the US constitution & bill of rights continues to root out all evil. Masterful document really.

03-09-2007, 03:59 PM	#99 (permalink)
chinthee Sundance is my bff Last Online: 10-08-2009 09:13 PM Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,028	^ Well, we can and should be cynical and call a spade a spade. Fiddling with the Supreme Court, stacking the deck as it were, is nothing new. It all irons out. The much bigger danger today is judicial activism, rather than anything else IMO.

03-09-2007, 03:59 PM	#100 (permalink)
sabang Watching the Wheels Last Online: Today 12:10 PM Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: where the streets have no name Posts: 11,476	The only failings of a democracy such as the US are human failings.

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