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stroller · 30-05-2007, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milkman

Mandarin isn't a linguistic skill that can be learned a) easily and b) as quickly as English.

Nor is it spoken all across China.

Something not to forget, is the Chinese influence, not last because of the many Thai-Chinese, and, without pulling on clichees, I reckon they will be the ones trusted by Chinese business interests.
Already, speaking one of the main Chinese languages is an asset demanding equaly if not more 'rewarding' salaries as fluency in English.

-personal experience. I know of a sour-puss, useless secretary. Main qualification: she can communicate in Cantonese.

sabang · 30-05-2007, 01:59 AM

Actually there is a big push on in HK to get people to learn more Mandarin (more correctly Pehng Hwa, modified Madarin promoted as the central language of China). Cantonese is the local lingo, and most people in the south do not speak Pehng Hwa.
China has many, many dialects.

Blake7 · 30-05-2007, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabang

Actually there is a big push on in HK to get people to learn more Mandarin (more correctly Pehng Hwa, modified Madarin promoted as the central language of China). Cantonese is the local lingo, and most people in the south do not speak Pehng Hwa.
China has many, many dialects.

or even more correctly "putong hua" which translates as "common speech".

Regarding Chinese manufacturing it seems there is lots made in China but not much made by China. In order to continue this rapid development China will need to a) develop their own brands (I can only think of Haier as a truly global brand. And Lenovo now of course) and b) move up the value chain by manufacturing more hi tech items. China is less and less competitive now as a manuafcturing base for low tech items.

Sir Burr · 30-05-2007, 11:06 AM

Whilst stuck on a boat with 40 northern Chinese, I asked whether the old story about a bill for the equivalent of $1 was sent to the family of an executed prisoner, was true.

They said it was, and with no trace of irony, or, humour said "...but, if they have to use a second one, it's free".

Marmite the Dog · 30-05-2007, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blake7

And Lenovo now of course

But, they are only known worldwide because of them buying out IBM PC, and they will still rely upon the westerners to do everything that requires thought and flair.

Milkman · 13-06-2007, 01:29 AM

Well, this is what you could call a lack of creativity.

Quote:

Jun 12, 2007
BEIJING (AFP) - With more than a billion people now sharing just 100 surnames, Chinese authorities are considering a landmark move to try to end the confusion, state media reported Tuesday.

Current Chinese law states that children are only allowed take the surname from either their mother or father, but the lack of variety means there are now 93 million people in China with the family name Wang.
In a country of around 1.3 billion people, about 85 percent share only 100 surnames, according to a nationwide survey conducted by the Ministry of Public Security....

Link & Entire: Chinese surname shortage sparks rethink - Yahoo! News

Boon Mee · 13-06-2007, 03:49 AM

"China has halted ethanol production from corn and food crops because it was driving up the costs of food"

Everyone's gotta eat...

Source

man with no head · 13-06-2007, 03:58 AM

Good for them. Food prices are increasing here as well due to the same problem.

Why food prices should increase so that we can keep selling SUVs is beyond comprehension.

MeMock · 13-06-2007, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surasak

Good for them. Food prices are increasing here as well due to the same problem.

Why food prices should increase so that we can keep selling SUVs is beyond comprehension.

Agree 100%.

Eventually something will have to give.

Butterfly · 13-06-2007, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Burr

I asked whether the old story about a bill for the equivalent of $1 was sent to the family of an executed prisoner, was true.

it's not entirely a bad idea, it puts the moral burden of the execution back to the family and out of the state so there couldn't be any resentment against the state, as the state is just doing a job, a paying job.

Milkman · 10-08-2007, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Wednesday said China would be "foolhardy" to attempt to push down the dollar in retaliation for US pressure over Beijing's alleged currency manipulation.

Bush said he had not seen the report that Beijing was hinting at such a move, in Britain's Daily Telegraph newspaper, but warned against any attempt by China to hit back at Washington using vast foreign currency reserves.

"That would be foolhardy of them to do that," Bush said in an interview with Fox News, adding he doubted the report was based on sources from the office of Chinese President Hu Jintao.
"If that's the ... position of the government, it would be foolhardy for them to do this."

US Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson meanwhile said on CNBC that suggestions that China was considering selling off dollar denominated assets to hammer the already weakened US dollar were "absurd."

"We have tensions and we have to deal with tensions on both sides ... but overall, both of our countries are committed to a constructive economic relationships," said Paulson, who returned from talks with top leaders in China last week.

China said on Friday it would not be pressured into currency reform as Washington and the US Congress renewed calls for it to speed up changes to make the yuan more market-oriented.

The Telegraph reported that two officials at leading Communist Party bodies had given interviews in recent days warning that Beijing might use more than a trillion dollars in foreign reserves as a political weapon in the event of US sanctions designed to punish Beijing for yuan manipulation.

Described as China's "nuclear option" in the state media, such a move could trigger a crash of the already-falling greenback and a spike in the US bond yields, which could then dampen the beleaguered housing market and put the world's richest economy into a recession.

When asked whether such an option would hurt China more than the United States, Bush said, "Absolutely. I think so."

China reportedly holds some 900 billion dollars in a mix of US Bonds.

Entire & Link: China dollar attack would be 'foolhardy' : Bush

Almost 1 trillion dollars....

mrsquirrel · 10-08-2007, 07:52 AM

It will be interesting to see how China progress's over the next decade and half.

If you think back to the 80's when Korea was seen as a place for cheap but crap quality everything. Goods that had made in Korea stamped on them were laughed at by people. 20 years on and goods that come out of Korea are actually pretty good. Hyundai make decent cars (shut up MTD), Kia has made huge progress, Samsung make pretty nice cars but they are only sold domestically. Korea is now the leader in LCD technology, cell phone technology. They have installed a completely free and operational Digital Media Broadcast which is still at least two years away in the UK.

China is hot on the heels of Korea IMO, give it another ten years or so and the demand for quality control and quality goods will tighten things up.

Marmite the Dog · 10-08-2007, 10:59 AM

^ The main problem with Korea now is that their labour is too expensive and they are beginning to become complacent. I presume China will mature at the right time and fill the gap that Korea is about to leave.

I agree about Kia. I saw some of their cars in Vientiane and they look pretty good actually.

mrsquirrel · 10-08-2007, 11:07 AM

Huge change in them, all the Korean brands in fact. Went to the Samsung musuem of transport and the change is quite dramatic. That's what comes from taking older japanes technology reverse engineering it then producing their own.

Migrant workers get a good deal here though. Got a dozen or more at school rebuilding the toilets. Everland the amusment park has whities who sing and dance. Few darkies as well who dance with spears.

Average salary for a factory worker appears to be around 50,000 won or so per day. so they are doing ok.

Milkman · 19-02-2008, 08:36 PM

Here's a little bump on this China thread, since China seems to get discussed more and more from the Olympics, to policies, to its economics.

Milkman · 31-10-2009, 10:45 PM

Here's an article with pictures of the horrid pollution.

It's not just China, as many other countries are promoting and propelling this, including the USA.

Graphic photos:

Link & Entire: more words and photos in the link:
Amazing Pictures, Pollution in China | ChinaHush

Quote:

Amazing Pictures, Pollution in China

October 21st, 2009 by Key | Posted in Featured, News | 752 Comments »
[QQ] October 14, 2009, the 30th annual awards ceremony of the W. Eugene Smith Memorial Fund took place at the Asia Society in New York City. Lu Guang (卢广) from People’s Republic of China won the $30,000 W. Eugene Smith Grant in Humanistic Photography for his documentary project “Pollution in China.”

Lu Guang (卢广), freelancer photographer, started as an amateur photographer in 1980. He was a factory worker, later started his own photo studio and advertising agency. August of 1993 he returned to post-graduate studies at the Central Arts and Design Academy in Beijing (now is the Academy of Arts and Design, Tsinghua University). During graduate school, he studied, traveled all over the country and carved out a career, became the “dark horse” of the photographer circle in Beijing. Skilled at social documentary photography, his insightful, creative and artistic work often focused on “social phenomena and people living at the bottom of society”, attracted the attentions of the national photography circle and the media. Many of his award winning works focused on social issues like, “gold rush in the west”, “drug girl”, “small coal pit”, “HIV village”, “the Grand Canal”, “development of the Qinghai-Tibet Railway” and so on.
1. “At the junction of Ningxia province and Inner Mongolia province, I saw a tall chimney puffing out golden smoke covering the blue sky, large tracts of the grassland have become industrial waste dumps; unbearable foul smell made people want to cough; Surging industrial sewage flowed into the Yellow River…”
- Lu Guang

2. Chemical waste from Jiangsu Taixing Chemical Industrial District (江苏泰兴化工园区) dumped on top of the Yangtze River bank. May 15, 2009

3. Fan Jai Zhuang in Anyang City, Henan province, (河南安阳市范家庄) there is only one wall separating this village from the steelmaking furnaces. The villagers live in this heavily polluted environment where the village is under the iron rain every day. March 24, 2008

4. Industrial sewage of Zhejiang Xiaoshan Industrial District (浙江萧山化工园区) eventually flowed into Qiantang River. April 24, 2009

5. Henan Anyang iron and steel plant’s (河南安阳钢铁厂) sewage flowed into Anyang River. March 25, 2008

6. Guiyu, Guangdong province, (广东省贵屿镇) rivers and reservoirs have been contaminated, the villager is washing in a seriously polluted pond. November 25, 2005

7. Shizuishan Industrial district in Ningxia province (宁夏石嘴山湖滨工业园区), the tall chimneys spitted out smoke and dust. Residents took preventive measure for the falling dust from the sky when going outside. April 22, 2006

8. In the Yellow Sea coastline, countless sewage pipes buried in the beach and even extending into the deep sea. April 28, 2008

9. In Ma’anshan, Anhui province (安徽马鞍山), along the Yangtze River there are many small-scaled Iron selection factories and plastic processing plants. Large amounts of sewage discharged into the Yangtze River June 18, 2009

Milkman · 06-11-2009, 09:40 PM

The West used to delve into Africa for resources. Now, why the concern about China?

Quote:

bound up with the politics of aid
Peter Guest
guardian.co.uk
5 November 2009

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...nvestment-fear

The reasons why China invests in Africa have been
Why the West Fears China in Africa much discussed, and while there have been some very coherent and nuanced explanations given on these pages and elsewhere, the prevailing sentiment still seems to be one of unbridled fear. Likewise, we are engaged in a post Dead Aid discussion about the efficacy of western aid.

As Rwandan president Paul Kagame's article on Cif demonstrated, the two are not discrete issues. However, the public discussions on both have been alarmingly one-dimensional and highlight and a surprisingly retrograde notion of both Africa's self-determination and what constitutes influence in 21st-century global politics.

There have been valid criticisms of the way that China has invested in Africa, notably in terms of the import of labour in the early days. (Arms, too, but China is far from alone in supplying questionable regimes, to put it mildly). However, to think that China is a monolith is naive. China's models have been in flux since the new wave of investment began at the start of this century and Beijing is surprisingly sensitive to criticism. The rate at which China has evolved domestically is testament to its ability to learn.

There is a more persistent theme to the debate, though, which I think says more about us than any other. Does China's investment undermine human rights? Does China, with its record on curtailing freedom, transfer its values to the African states that it invests in? Does it have a pernicious influence that will tear Africa away from western values? Is China building a "Beijing consensus" to displace Washington?

I am not even convinced that the US, barring a few cold warriors, sees this element of danger. The last administration saw threats everywhere, but the Bush-era assistant secretary of state for Africa, Jendayi Frazer, rightly scolded me a few months ago for using the word "influence" when talking about the interplay of the international actors on the continent.

International relationships in the 21st century are not exclusive, and neither is there the cold war expectation that countries align to a dominant power then act at their beck and call – if that was ever a true paradigm. The US has been the biggest single investor and the biggest trade partner to the continent for decades. Why did this not translate into "influence"? The US has asked for African nations' support on the UN security council as recently as 2003. China's most persistent campaign for a say in Africa centred on its desire to get on to the security council in place of Taiwan. This was achieved in 1971, well before Beijing amassed its giant surplus of dollars.

And yet the fear seems to be durable. Why? Because it stands in stark contrast to the relationship we think we think we are supposed to have with Africa. We cannot separate this debate on China from the parallel one on aid and aid effectiveness. If anything is about influence, it is aid, and nowhere is this demonstrated better than Brussels.

I have just come back from European Development Days in Stockholm, the EU's annual aid community get-together. Here you can get to see what next year's fashion in development will be, and meet with the new donors on the scene. There were sizeable displays from the Czech Republic, Poland and Slovenia, for example, who have recently begun to operate national development agencies.

Accession countries do not give aid entirely for altruistic reasons, nor do they do so simply because they have bought into the global self-interest. They do it with at least one eye on Brussels, and probably both. Aid gives a disproportionate amount of influence – not in Africa, but in Europe. Aid gets you a seat at the table within the UN. Aid is not designed to be efficient, it is designed to be influential. This is why our own development agency, the Department for International Development, has been so committed to European multilateralism.

It is thus inevitable that there are hypocrisies. That is why subsidies – particularly in agriculture – destroy what aid builds and why donor cash is used for elaborate ceilings in Geneva. It is why vast amounts of money are spent on the proliferation of isolated projects that have little or no system-wide impact on poverty alleviation.

I am not a believer in Dambisa Moyo's thesis that aid is dead, but I feel we need to inject more realism into what we expect of it. Distilling the debate to "aid is bad, China is good" or vice versa, and not examining the complexities and the nuances of the two interlocking themes will leave us in a weak position to adjust to the new global paradigm. We still like to see ourselves as the saviours, and African nations as places dangerously liable to fall under the sway of seductive foreign powers. This is patronising at best.

As President Kagame has said, Africa is not a marginal player squeezed between two great giants. The cold war is over and the new world, while it might seem bipolar, is not. Africa – the whole developing world, in fact – is building relationships with a multitude of partners, some who subscribe to our values and some who do not. We are only ever going to be one of them, and unless we understand the full context and the interrelation of all of these factors, we are going to be a partner of waning relevance. If that happens, we have no right to begrudge anyone for stepping into the vacuum.

Link at top, inside the quoted section.

Milkman · Yesterday, 12:19 PM

Another good article by Schiff. Most posters (I think) are aware of this. But it's important to check out, once again. Not sure where to put this article, so I stuck it here, in the "China" thread.

Peg the Renminbi to keep the dollar afloat - afloat enough for Americans to keep buying the low quality cheaper products coming out of China, and into the USA.

Quote:

The Truth Behind China's Currency Peg

During President Obama's high profile visit to China this week, the most frequently discussed, yet least understood, topic was how currency valuations are affecting the economic relationship between the United States and China. The focal problem is the Chinese government's policy of fixing the value of the renminbi against the U.S. dollar. While many correctly perceive that this 'peg' has contributed greatly to the current global imbalances, few fully comprehend the ramifications should that peg be discarded.

The common understanding is both incomplete and naive. Most analysts simply see the peg as China's principal weapon in an economic struggle for global ascendancy. The peg, they argue, offers China a competitive advantage by making its products cheaper in U.S. markets, thus allowing Chinese firms to gobble up market share and steal jobs from U.S. manufacturers. The thought is that were China to allow its currency to rise, American manufactures would regain their lost edge, and both manufacturing firms and the jobs formerly associated with them would return. In this narrative, the struggle centers on the United States' diminishing leverage in persuading the Chinese to lay down their unfair weaponry. It's a sympathetic picture, but it tells the wrong story.

While the peg certainly is responsible for much of the world's problems, its abandonment would cause severe hardship in the United States. In fact, for the U.S., de-pegging would cause the economic equivalent of cardiac arrest. Our economy is currently on life support provided by an endless flow of debt financing from China. These purchases are the means by which China maintains the relative value of its currency against the dollar. As the dollar comes under even more downward pressure, China's purchases must increase to keep the renminbi from rising. By maintaining the peg, China enables our politicians and citizens to continue spending more than they have and avoiding the hard choices necessary to restore our long-term economic health.

Contrary to the conventional wisdom, when China drops the peg, the immediate benefits will flow to the Chinese, not to Americans. Yes, prices for Chinese goods will rise in the United States – but so will prices for domestic goods. As a corollary, the Chinese will see falling prices across the board. As anyone who has ever been shopping can explain, low prices are a good thing.

In addition, credit will expand in China while it contracts here. When China abandons the peg, it will no longer need to swell its currency reserves by buying Treasuries or other dollar-denominated debt instruments. Other nations will no longer feel the pressure to keep their currencies from rising, so they too could throttle down on their onerous dollar purchases.

As demand falls for both dollars and Treasuries, prices and interest rates in the United States will rise. Rising rates will restrict the flow of credit that is currently financing government and consumer spending. This change will finally force a long overdue decline in borrowing. So, not only will Americans lose access to the consumer credit that funds their current spending, but the things they buy will also get more expensive.

Our short-term loss will be in sharp contrast to the gain felt by foreigners, who will be rewarded with falling consumer prices and a more abundant supply of investment capital. In other words, the American standard of living will fall while that of our trading partners will rise.

However, this does not mean that I want the Chinese to maintain the status quo. In the long run, the U.S. economy will benefit from the abandonment of a system that guarantees our dependency and inevitable downfall. De-pegging will force the hand of U.S. politicians toward pursuing realistic policies. The Chinese will come to their senses eventually because it is in their interest to do so. Meanwhile, the longer the peg is maintained, the more indebted we become, the more out of balance our economy grows, and the more our industrial base shrivels. In short, the longer they wait, the steeper our fall.

A weaker dollar will price many imported products beyond the reach of most Americas, giving our hollowed out manufacturing sector the opportunity to rebound. However, if our industry has any chance of getting off the mat, we must reduce taxes, repeal regulations, reform our cumbersome legal system, and, most importantly, replenish our savings to finance the necessary capital investment.

If we position ourselves to deal with the consequences, tough love from China will provide a path back to genuine economic growth. However, if our politicians continue to misread the problem and push us deeper in the red, the inevitable 'rebalancing' could be truly ruinous.

Link: Euro Pacific Capital

30-05-2007, 01:59 AM	#2 (permalink)
sabang Watching the Wheels Last Online: Today 10:04 AM Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: where the streets have no name Posts: 11,570	Actually there is a big push on in HK to get people to learn more Mandarin (more correctly Pehng Hwa, modified Madarin promoted as the central language of China). Cantonese is the local lingo, and most people in the south do not speak Pehng Hwa. China has many, many dialects. __________________ Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

30-05-2007, 11:06 AM	#4 (permalink)
Sir Burr Rhubarb, rhubarb, rhubarb Last Online: 16-06-2009 10:54 AM Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Phuket. Posts: 5,087	Whilst stuck on a boat with 40 northern Chinese, I asked whether the old story about a bill for the equivalent of $1 was sent to the family of an executed prisoner, was true. They said it was, and with no trace of irony, or, humour said "...but, if they have to use a second one, it's free". __________________ Phuket - Veni Vidi Veni

10-08-2007, 07:52 AM	#12 (permalink)
mrsquirrel Jarvis fellates goats 4 $ Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: In a rather cold and dark place Posts: 12,160	It will be interesting to see how China progress's over the next decade and half. If you think back to the 80's when Korea was seen as a place for cheap but crap quality everything. Goods that had made in Korea stamped on them were laughed at by people. 20 years on and goods that come out of Korea are actually pretty good. Hyundai make decent cars (shut up MTD), Kia has made huge progress, Samsung make pretty nice cars but they are only sold domestically. Korea is now the leader in LCD technology, cell phone technology. They have installed a completely free and operational Digital Media Broadcast which is still at least two years away in the UK. China is hot on the heels of Korea IMO, give it another ten years or so and the demand for quality control and quality goods will tighten things up. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-08-2007, 10:59 AM	#13 (permalink)
Marmite the Dog ผู้เชี่ยวชาญเปล่า Last Online: Today 12:23 PM Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Simian Islands Posts: 30,333	^ The main problem with Korea now is that their labour is too expensive and they are beginning to become complacent. I presume China will mature at the right time and fill the gap that Korea is about to leave. I agree about Kia. I saw some of their cars in Vientiane and they look pretty good actually. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. I will meet the blackness and the blackness will be eternal

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13-06-2007, 03:49 AM	#7 (permalink)
Boon Mee Thailand Travel Forum Last Online: Today 07:26 AM Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 12,927	"China has halted ethanol production from corn and food crops because it was driving up the costs of food" Everyone's gotta eat... Source

13-06-2007, 03:58 AM	#8 (permalink)
man with no head Somewhere Travelling Last Online: 11-08-2007 07:39 PM Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,162	Good for them. Food prices are increasing here as well due to the same problem. Why food prices should increase so that we can keep selling SUVs is beyond comprehension.

10-08-2007, 11:07 AM	#14 (permalink)
mrsquirrel Jarvis fellates goats 4 $ Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: In a rather cold and dark place Posts: 12,160	Huge change in them, all the Korean brands in fact. Went to the Samsung musuem of transport and the change is quite dramatic. That's what comes from taking older japanes technology reverse engineering it then producing their own. Migrant workers get a good deal here though. Got a dozen or more at school rebuilding the toilets. Everland the amusment park has whities who sing and dance. Few darkies as well who dance with spears. Average salary for a factory worker appears to be around 50,000 won or so per day. so they are doing ok.

19-02-2008, 08:36 PM	#15 (permalink)
Milkman Gone Off Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: shelf Posts: 15,365	Here's a little bump on this China thread, since China seems to get discussed more and more from the Olympics, to policies, to its economics.

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