Gout - The Gout thread

[Topper]

I use colchicine and voltaren .... will try the baking soda. Thanks.

I've found that as long as I take 2 pills of each every day I can pretty much eat or drink what I want.

[good2bhappy]

sorry got the wrong end of the stick.
I thought you were referring to screwing pigs!

[kmart]

I use colchicine and voltaren .... will try the baking soda. Thanks.

I've found that as long as I take 2 pills of each every day I can pretty much eat or drink what I want.

I used to use colchicine after i had attacks, and it used to give me diarrhea pretty bad..
I take occasional anti-inflamms, if I feel a "twinge" of gout coming on. The best (and cheapest here in LoS) for me are "Indocin" (Indomethacin; generic name). Although, using just 1 tspn of baking soda / day now makes this just on the odd occasion.
I'm pretty much gout-free now.

[Raffles]

"Note; Some people can have very high levels of uric acid present in their blood, but never develop gout symptoms. It is how your allergic system responds to the presence of uric acid, or how it crystallizes around your joints.."

I have high levels of Uric in my blood every time I am tested at my annual Exec medical. I have had gout but its not chronic - maybe 2 serious episodes since 2004 when it first came on and a couple of v minor ones.

Some Dr's have tried to put me on allipurinol because of the levels but have refused - choosing to take Naproxin if I get a twinge.

[barbaro]

A friend of mine has gout, and cherry juice helps him as much as anything and alcohol is supposed to be very bad for those with gout.

Yes, Cherry juice, and raw cherries are one of the best ways to fight/prevent gout. Check and make sure it's the right type of juice.

Yes, alcohol is bad, and last night I stopped drinking after my 3rd small can of beer, and went to water, after getting a sudden attack.

Tonight, I just got home from work at 9:45 PM, and no beer (booze) tonight. Water, and baking soda, and some Indocine with food around 1 AM.

P.S. - I have already drank 4 1/2 liters of water today (I count it by checking it), and I'll drink another 1 1/2 before I go to bed tonight.

1 week on, have you seen / felt any difference?

Thanks for the follow up question, kmart.

I have been taking a minimum of a teaspoon of Banking Soda in the morning and at night before bed.

I believe it's working. I have not had a tinge or problem since. It's too early to tell, however, but I am hoping!!

P.S. I also stopped put 1 lime per day in my water, as you did note something about Vitamin C altering something in the blood. (Acidic Levels?)

[kmart]

A friend of mine has gout, and cherry juice helps him as much as anything and alcohol is supposed to be very bad for those with gout.

Yes, Cherry juice, and raw cherries are one of the best ways to fight/prevent gout. Check and make sure it's the right type of juice.

Yes, alcohol is bad, and last night I stopped drinking after my 3rd small can of beer, and went to water, after getting a sudden attack.

Tonight, I just got home from work at 9:45 PM, and no beer (booze) tonight. Water, and baking soda, and some Indocine with food around 1 AM.

P.S. - I have already drank 4 1/2 liters of water today (I count it by checking it), and I'll drink another 1 1/2 before I go to bed tonight.

1 week on, have you seen / felt any difference?

Thanks for the follow up question, kmart.

I have been taking a minimum of a teaspoon of Banking Soda in the morning and at night before bed.

I believe it's working. I have not had a tinge or problem since. It's too early to tell, however, but I am hoping!!

P.S. I also stopped put 1 lime per day in my water, as you did note something about Vitamin C altering something in the blood. (Acidic Levels?)

Hope it works for you, Milkman. Vitamin C ups the acidity (pH) levels in your blood, that might lead to a gout attack... I take the odd vit C tablet supplement, but stopped drinking lots of orange / lime juice a while back without any effect to my health. I think a normal balanced intake of food will give you the C you require anyway..

[barbaro]

Vitamin C ups the acidity (pH) levels in your blood, that might lead to a gout attack... I take the odd vit C tablet supplement, but stopped drinking lots of orange / lime juice a while back without any effect to my health.

kmart,

If I take a Vitamin C tablet/supp/vitamin, can it affedt the (pH) acidity levels in my blood?

Of is the affect of pH only with natural lemon and limes?


TIA.

[kmart]

^^ I think Vit C supplements are ok. If you drink a lot of the juices, especially orange; pineapple; and lemon juices, they can be quite potent triggers for an onset of gout.

Had a bad attack of gout last week actually, first time in a long while, after a long w/e of heavy (for me) drinking. A day of alkalyzing myself with baking soda and a few anti-inflamm's sorted me out in a day or so, though.

Self-inflicted.

Uric Acid & pH level chart of some popular foods:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Food & Drink pH Uric Acid
Average (range)
(mg/100g)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Abalone 112
Almond, sweet 37
Anchovies 6.5 239
Apple 3.3~4.0 14
Apricot 3.3~4.8 73

Artichoke 5.5~6.0 78
Asparagus 6.0~6.7 23 (20~30)
Aspirin (325 mg in 25 mL water) 5.8
Aubergine (eggplant) 5.5~6.5 21
Avocado 6.3~6.6 19

Bamboo shoots 5.1~6.2 29
Banana 4.5~5.2 57
Baking soda (2.5 mg in 50 mg water) 7.7
Barley, whole grain 5.2~5.3 (cooked) 96

Bean, black 146 (137~146)
Beans, French (string beans) 5.6 37 (20~43)
Beans, French, dried 45 (40~50)
Bean, Indian 83
Bean, kidney 30

Bean, lentil, seed, dry 127 (114~165)
Bean, Mung 94
Bean, mungo, seed, dry 222
Bean, soybean cured (tofu) 68
Bean, soy 141

Bean, soy, seed, dry 190
Bean, soy sauce 6 (1~10)
Bean sprout, soy 80
Bean, Uzura 71
Bean, white, seed, dry 128

Beef, brain 75
Beef, brain, calf's 92
Beef, chest gland 1032
Beef, chuck 120
Beef, corned 57

Beef, fillet 110
Beef, fore rib 120
Beef, heart 256 (256~408)
Beef, kidney 269 (200~269)
Beef, kidney, calf's 218 (218~240)

Beef, liver 554 (333~554)
Beef, liver, Calf's 460
Beef, lungs (lights) 399
Beef, lungs, calf's 147
Beef, muscles only 133

Beef, roast, sirloin 110 (110~120)
Beef, shoulder 110
Beef, spleen 444
Beef, spleen, calf's 343
Beef, tongue 160

Beef, calf's chop, cutlet with bone 140
Beef, calf's fillet 140
Beef, calf's knuckle with bone 150 (140~160)
Beef, calf's leg, with bone 150
Beef, calf's, liver 233

Beef, calf's lungs 147
Beef, calf's, muscle only 172
Beef, calf's, neck with bone 150
Beef, calf's, shoulder 140

Beer, alcohol free 8
Beer, Lager 4.0~4.7
Beer, regular 3.3~3.7 13
Beer, light 14

Beet root 5.3~6.6 19 (15~21)
Bilberry, blueberry, huckleberry 22 (15~40)
Blackberry 3.9~4.5
Blueberry 3.1~3.3
Brandy 4.1

Bread, wheat 5.0~6.2 14
Bread, rolls 21
Broccoli 6.3~6.5 (cooked) 81
Brussel sprouts 6.0~6.3 69

Cabbage, red 5.6~6.0 32 (20~37)
Cabbage, savoy 6.3 37 (20~42)
Cabbage, white 6.2 22
Cantelope 33
Carp 6.0 160

Carrot 5.9~6.4 17 (14~25)
Cauliflower 5.6 51
Caviar 5.7~6.0 144
Caviar substitute 18
Celery, root (celeriac) 5.7~6.0 30
Cherry 3.3~4.5

Cheese, Brie 7.1 7
Cheese, Cheddar, 50% fat 5.9 6
Cheese, cottage 4.8~5.0 9
Cheese, edam, 30~45% fat 5.4 7
Cheese, Limburger, 20% fat 32

Cherry, Morello 17
Cherry, sweet 4.0~4.5 7

Chicken, breast 137
Chicken (breast with skin) 175
Chicken (for roasting) 115
Chicken, boiling fowl 159
Chicken, leg with skin, without bone 110
Chicken, liver 243

Chicory 12
Chives 5.2~6.3 67
Clams 221
Club soda 5.0
Cocoa powder, part of oil removed 71

Coffee, brewed 5.5
Cod 5.3~6.1 (boiled) 109
Cola & clear soda drinks 2.7
Corn, sweet 5.9~7.3 52
Crab 6.5~7.0 168

Cranberry 2.3~2.5
Crayfish 60
Cress 28
Crispbread 60
Cucumber 5.1~5.8 7

Currant, red 17
Dates, dried 35
Deer, back 105
Deer, leg 138
Deer, meat 111

Duck 138 (138~153)
Duck, heart 147
Egg, Chicken ~0
Eggplant (aubergine) 5.5~6.5 21
Eel 115
Eel, smoked 78 (45~115)

Elderberry, black 33
Endive 17
Fennel leaves 5.5~5.9 14 (10~16)
Fig (dried) 64

Fish, anchovy 6.5 239
Fish, avalone 112
Fish, carp 6.0 160
Fish, cod 5.3~6.1 109
Fish, crayfish 60

Fish, eel 115
Fish, eel, smoked 78 (45~115)
Fish, haddock 6.2~6.8 139
Fish, halibut 178
Fish, herring roe 190

Fish, herring, Atlantic 6.1 210
Fish, herring, Matje cured 4.5~5.0 219
Fish, mackerel 6.1~6.5 (boiled) 145 (95~194)
Fish, pike 140
Fish, pike-perch 110

Fish, pedfish (ocean perch) 241
Fish, paithe (coalfish) 163
Fish, salmon 5.4~6.5 170 (110~250)
Fish, sardine 345
Fish, sardines in oil 5.4~5.9 480 (399~560)

Fish, shellfish, shrimp, brown 6.5~7.0 147 (60~234)
Fish, sole 131 (125~137)
Fish, trout 297
Fish, tuna 257
Fish, tuna in oil 290

Frankfurter sausages 89 (69~130)
Goose 165 (165~240)
Gooseberry 2.8~3.1 16
Grape 2.8~3.8 27
Grape, dried, raisin, sultana 107
Grapefruit 3.0~3.8

Grass, viper's (black salsify) 71
Ham, cooked 131
Horse meat 200
Kale 6.4~6.8 48
Kiwi fruit 19
Kohirabi 25 (11~30)

Lamb, muscles only) 182
Lamb, heart 241 (241~408)
Lamb, kidney 195 (195~336)
Lamb, sparerib 125
Lamb, spleen 773

Shrimp, brown 6.5~7.0 147 (60~234)
Leek 5.5~6.2 74
Lentil, seed, dry 127 (114~165)
Lemon, juice 2.0~2.8
Lettuce 5.8~6.5 13 (10~29)

Lettuce, lamb's 38
Lime juice 2.0~2.8
Linseed 105

Liver 6.8
Liver, beef 554 (333~554)
Liver, calf's 460
Liver, chicken 243 (243~645)
Liver, Pork 516 (516~548)

Lobster 7.1~7.4 118 (60~175)
Maize 10
Meat extracts 280 (160~400)
Melon, cantelope 6.1~6.6 33
Milk, cow 6.4~6.8


Millet, shucked corn 62
Morel 30

Mushroom 6.0~6.7 58 (55~215)
Mushrooms, canned, solid & liquid 29
Mushrooms, chanterelle, canned,
solid & liquid 17
Mushroom, flat, edible boletus, cep 92

Mushroom, flat, edible boletus, dried 488
Mushroom, morel 30
Mushroom, oyster 50

Mussels 6.0~6.9 112
Neck sweet bread, Calf's 1260

Nuts, almond, sweet 37
Nuts, brazil 23
Nuts, hazelnut (cobnut) 37 (27~42)
Nuts, peanut 79
Nuts, walnut 25

Oat 60
Oats, whole grain 94
Olive, green, marinated 29
Onion 5.3~5.8 13
Orange 3.6~4.3 19

Oyster 90
Oysters 239 (Hong Kong site)
Parsley, leaf 5.7~6.0 57
Pasta made with egg 40
Pea, pod and seed, green 84

Pea, seed, dry 95 (85~167)
Peach 3.3~4.1 21
Peanut 100
Pear 3.5~4.6 12 (2~17)
Peas, chick (garbanzo), seed, dry 5.2~5.9 109

Peppers, green 55
Pineapple 3.2~4.0 19
Plaice 93
Plum 2.8~4.5 24

Plum, dried 64
Prune 4.0
Poppy seed, dry 170

Pork belly 100 (80~110)
Pork belly, raw, smoked dried 127
Pork brain 83
Pork chop with bone 145 (140~150)
Pork chuck 140 (135~145)

Pork fillet 150 (145~150)
Pork ham, cooked 131
Pork heart 530 (408~530)
Pork kidney 334 (240~336)
Pork leg (hind leg) 160 (150~160)
Pork liver 515 (516~548)

Pork, lungs (lights) 434
Pork muscles only 166 (154~166)
Pork shoulder with skin 150 (145~150)
Pork, sparerib 118
Pork, spleen 516
Pork tongue 136

Potato 5.4~5.9 16
Potato, cooked with skin 18
Pudding, black 55 (37~91)
Pumpkin 4.9~5.5 44
Quince 3.1~3.4 (stewed) 30

Rabbit meat, with bone 112 (95~150)
Rabbit/Hare 105
Radish 15
Radishes 5.5~6.1 13
Raspberry 3.2~4.0 18

Rhubarb 3.1~3.4 12
Rye, whole grain 51 (47~63)
Sauerkraut, dripped off 16 (12~20)

Sausage "Bierschinchen" 85
Sausage "Fleischwurst" 78
Sausage "Jagdwurst" 112
Sausage, Franfurter 89 (69~130)

Sausage "Mortadella" 96 (79~130)
Sausage "Munich Weisswurst" 73
Sausage salami, German 104
Sausage, liver (liverwurst) 165

Sausage, Vienna 78
Sausage, frying, from pork 101
Sausage, fryuing, from veal 91
Sausage, German (Mettwurst) 74

Scallop 6.0 136
Scallop, dried 390
Seaweeds 274
Seltzer 3.6
Sesame seed, Asian, dry 62

Sheep's heart 241 (241~408)
Sheep's kidney 195 (195~336)
Sheep's, sparerib 125
Sheep's spleen 773

Shellfish, avalone 112
Shellfish, crab 6.5~7.0 168
Shellfish, mussels 6.0~6.9 112
Shellfish, oyster 90
Shellfish, oysters 239
Shellfish, shrimp, brown 6.5~7.0 147 (60~234)

Soybean 141
Soy, bean sprouts 80
Soy, Tofu 68
Soy, seed, dry 190
Soy, sauce 6 (1~10)

Spinach 5.5~6.8 57 (57~70)
Sprat, smoked 804
Squash, summer 5.2~6.5 (cooked) 24
Strawberry 3.0~3.9 21 (12~26)
Sunflower seed, dry 143

Sweetbreads 825
Sweetbread, calf's neck 1260
Tea, brewed 4.0~6.5
Tench 80
Theobromine 2300

Tofu 7.2 68
Tomato 4.0~4.6
Tonic water 2.5
Trout 297

Tuna 257
Tuna, in oil 290
Tomato 4.3~4.9 11
Turkey, young, average, with skin 150

Veal chop, cutlet with bone 140
Veal fillet 140
Veal knuckle with bone 150 (140~160)
Veal, leg, with bone 150

Veal, muscle only 172
Veal, neck with bone 150
Veal, shoulder 140


Venison back 105
Venison haunch (leg) 138 (105~154)
Vinegar 2.4~3.4
Vodka 4.5
Wheat, whole grain 51 (40~83)

Whisky 4.0
Wine 2.8~3.5
Yeast, baker's 680 (589~680)
Yeast, brewer's 1810
Yogurt, min 3.5% fat 8

[barbaro]

^ Thanks kmart.

I'm trying to learn more about the pH and Alkaline levels.

I recently used Apple Cider Vinegar for an attack last week, and the gout disappeared. Maybe it was because of the Apple Cider Vinegar, maybe not, or perhaps it was related to it. After the gout went away I stopped the ACV.

[Little Chuchok]

Started getting gout when I was 18 FFS! All to do with the uric acid levels in your blood etc. Allopurinol is the drug of choice....as it actually reduces the uric acid (urates). The problem with urates, is if they are of a high concentration, they can also cause kidney stones.

[barbaro]

^ Do you take Allopurnil, LC?

Also, a question for kmart, or anyone who can answer.

When a gout attack hits, should I avoid Apple Cider Vinegar and take 1 TSP of banking soda in an 8 oz. of water?

TIA.

[slackula]

Disclaimer: I am not a doctor, but I think I have beaten gout (well for now anyway)
Warning: Tolstoy post ahead!

I suffered from mild gout for years in my early thirties but I thought it was arthritis or something so I ignored it (no family history). I had sore (big) toe and ankle joints etc. I was working as a chef in Oman so I spent a lot of time on my feet, smoked and drank more than I should etc etc etc.

One Xmas when working as a chef in BKK I basically ate nothing but turkey sandwiches over a period of about 3 days and BAM! Full on gout attack with a lot of dislocation of big toe, second toe and third toe of right foot. Was the worst experience ever.

Off to the Doc and he advised to never eat *any* poultry again, gave me colchicine (with the proviso that it wasn't to be taken daily, just when an attack was coming on) and sent me on my way.

There is aparently a protein in poultry that can trigger the excess of uric acid and afterwards the precipitation of the crystals into the joint at lower blood temperatures (ie the toes).

This I did for a few years but I still suffered from the occasional full-on can't-walk type attack.

Then I googled colchicine and realised that the doses he had prescribed were way below what is prescribed for an ongoing attack, they were some sort of preventional dose I think, but I had never taken any sort of preventional dose; I hate taking preventional medicine.

The next time I had an attack I started popping colchicine like hell, a couple of tabs every 20 minutes IIRC with lots of water and sort of saw off the attack, then I read up that colchicine can be nasty stuff so I looked for alternatives.

It turns out that for *some people* beans, legumes, lentils, peas, the little green things floating in a good curry, and extra vit C veggies can induce a similar reaction so I began to moderate (generally try to eliminate) my intake of those.

My gout was under control, I hadn't had any attacks for a couple of years (yay!) but I still had a swollen big-toe joint. Around that time I decided to lose some weight and get my marginally high blood pressure under control through starting jogging.

I bought a treadmill and started doing about 20-30 minutes a day, 5 days a week. Within 4 months the toe has reduced swelling and redness a lot and my blood pressure has come down to normal levels.

I am now 4 years without a gout attack.

I still drink and smoke like hell though. I've gotta work on that.

FWIW I am almost 43 years old, 6'1 and around 75 kgs. Hope this helps somebody because gout is hell.




/sorry again for a Tolstoy post.

[barbaro]

^ Thank you for your contribution, Slackula!

BTW, what does, "IIRC" mean?

[slackula]

IIRC= if I recall correctly

[Classof64]

I used to get periodic debilitating gout attacks, mostly in my feet. Once while living in BKK, again in C'mai, couldn't walk at all .. both feet .. had to scoot on my butt to toilet.

I mostlly drank beer .. so I quit .. about 7 years ago. Now I get a mild attack about once/year.

[StrontiumDog]

I'm curious to hear if the folks who tried the baking soda remedy actually all got better??? Did it work? It's been quite a few months now.

Never had gout, doesn't appear to exist in my family. Odd that it does so severely in some, but I can eat and drink what I like. I guess I'm very lucky by the sounds of it!

[barbaro]

I'm curious to hear if the folks who tried the baking soda remedy actually all got better??? Did it work? It's been quite a few months now.

Yes!

Thank you, kmart.

I followed kmart's advice with a 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda in water in the mornting and at night, and I think it's been the reason why my gout attacks have stopped. (Knock on wood.)

After so much pain and misery, and doctors visit I *may* have reduced this demon.

kmart also gave me a link to the best gout website I've ever seen, and I've seen plenty.

Kmart, I haven't seen you on the board here in a while, but many, many, thanks to you!!!

[kmart]

I'm curious to hear if the folks who tried the baking soda remedy actually all got better??? Did it work? It's been quite a few months now.

Yes!

Thank you, kmart.

I followed kmart's advice with a 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda in water in the mornting and at night, and I think it's been the reason why my gout attacks have stopped. (Knock on wood.)

After so much pain and misery, and doctors visit I *may* have reduced this demon.

kmart also gave me a link to the best gout website I've ever seen, and I've seen plenty.

Kmart, I haven't seen you on the board here in a while, but many, many, thanks to you!!!

Yer welcome, m8. Glad its working for you, too. I've been using baking soda (and black cherry juice, when available) for over 2 years now, and have been almost gout-free all this time with none of the side effects from the usual gout medicines that I discarded a loooong time ago.

[barbaro]

kmart:

Yer welcome, m8. Glad its working for you, too. I've been using baking soda (and black cherry juice, when available) for over 2 years now, and have been almost gout-free all this time with none of the side effects from the usual gout medicines that I discarded a loooong time ago.

I never did Allopurinol for more than one week. I take no meds either.

Do you take Black cherry juice for when only having attacks, or as a preventitive measure?

Cheers.

[kmart]

kmart:

Yer welcome, m8. Glad its working for you, too. I've been using baking soda (and black cherry juice, when available) for over 2 years now, and have been almost gout-free all this time with none of the side effects from the usual gout medicines that I discarded a loooong time ago.

I never did Allopurinol for more than one week. I take no meds either.

Do you take Black cherry juice for when only having attacks, or as a preventitive measure?

Cheers.

Preventative. I've been gout-free for a while now, and would rather be pro-active in keeping attacks at bay rather than waiting on one creeping up on me. There is also not too many places stock it outside Bkk and Pattaya. I try and keep a stock on hand and have a a glass or two / day. It works the same as the soda in keeping uric acid / pH levels down, and seems to be an inhibitor or natural anti-inflamm agent working to stop any uric acid from crystallizing on your joints.

[DrAndy]

A lot of websites are just trying to push their pharmaceutical "cure" products, and a lot of the supposed "Doctors" on those sites are phonies, too.

hmm, same as here then

don't eat chicken". Utter bollocks.

no bollocks on chicken

anyway kmart, good luck, seems like bicarb works for you

hope it works for others too

[barbaro]

^^ Thanks against kmart. I am stocking Arm & Hammer baking soda. I'll consider the black cherry juice also, but finding it may be difficult where I'm at.

[chitown]

Pssssst, Hey milky,

Beet juice and carrot juice when combined is excellent in the healing gout.


Treating gout using Cherry

The cherry, sweet or sour, is considered in effective treating gout. To start with, the patient should consume about fifteen to twenty five cherries a day. Thereafter, about ten cherries a day will keep the ailment under control. While fresh cherries are best, canned cherries can also be used occasionally.
Gout treatment using Vegetable Juices

Raw vegetable juices are used for gout treatment. Carrot juice, in combination with the juices of beet and cucumber, is especially valuable. Beet juice - 100 ml and cucumber juice - 100 ml should be mixed with 300 ml of carrot juice to make 500 ml of combined juice and taken daily
Treating Gout using French Beans

The juice of French or string beans has also proved effective in treating gout. About 150 ml of this juice should be taken daily by the patient suffering from this disease.
Cure for Gout using Apple

Apples are regarded as an excellent source for curing gout. The malic acid contained in them is believed to neutralise the uric acid and afford relief to gout sufferers. The patient is advised to take one apple after each meal.
Gout relief using Banana

Bananas have been found beneficial in the treatment of gout. A diet of bananas only for three or four days is advised for providing some relief from gout. A patient can take eight or nine bananas daily during this period and nothing else.
Treating gout using Lime

Lime is also used as a source in treating gout. Vitamin C is known to prevent and cure sore joints by strengthening the connective tissues of the body. The citric acid found in lime is a solvent of the uric acid which is the primary cause of this disease. The juice of half a lime, squeezed into a glass of water, should be taken twice daily.

[barbaro]

Cheers on the info on Vegetable juices.

I stay away from limes as they might make my blood more acidic.

[chitown]

Cheers on the info on Vegetable juices.

I stay away from limes as they might make my blood more acidic.

Are you sure? I have a friend from Belgium that has 2 phds with one being in nutrition. He swears that if you put lemon or lime juice in a glass of water it causes your body's ph to go alkaline. Something about it producing alkaline ash even though lemon juice is acidic.