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pai nai ma · 20-08-2008, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrAndy

any stats include those drugs which, although fake, are actually good generic drugs that are identical to the original version

Are you sure about this?

Smeg · 20-08-2008, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrAndy

There is certainly a fake drugs problem, but it is difficult to tell how bad it is

any stats include those drugs which, although fake, are actually good generic drugs that are identical to the original version

Not according to these.

Quote:

http://www.alertnet.org/db/blogs/227...3-151930-1.htm
The U.N. World Health Organisation (WHO) estimates that 200,000 of the one million malaria deaths every year would be prevented if all the drugs taken were genuine. Up to 50 percent of all drugs sold in Asia and Africa are fakes - not to be confused with generic drugs, which is the term for medicines that are identical in efficacy to big brand name drugs in every way, but are manufactured independently.

Quote:

Fake pharmaceuticals: how they and relevant legislation or lack thereof contribute to consistently high and increasing drug prices.
In 1998, the World Health Organization ("WHO") estimated that 5% of the world's drugs were counterfeit. (21) In 2002, WHO reported that fake drugs comprised 8 to 10% of the global pharmaceutical supply. (22) Between 50 and 76% of these counterfeit drugs contain no active ingredients or contain incorrect ingredients, and between 10 and 15% of all fake drugs contain contaminants.

A heavy concentration of these fake drugs exists in Third World or developing countries. The percentage of fake pharmaceuticals ranges from 25 to 70% of the entire pharmaceutical market in developing countries.

Smeg · 20-08-2008, 11:12 PM

More info

Quote:

South-east Asia awash with fake drugs | World news | The Guardian
South-east Asia awash with fake drugs

· 20% of malaria deaths blamed on bogus cures
· Hi-tech counterfeiting racket based in China

<LI class=byline>Ian MacKinnon, South-east Asia correspondent <LI class=publication>The Guardian,
Thursday February 22 2007
Article history

An "epidemic" of counterfeit therapeutic drugs is sweeping south-east Asia, costing hundreds of thousands of lives as victims take them under the mistaken belief that they are receiving vital treatment for their illnesses. A British doctor working in the Laotian capital, Vientiane, found that most of the anti-malarial medicines tested in a sample were sophisticated fakes, often displaying holograms on the packaging, originally aimed at making counterfeiting difficult.
The World Health Organisation (WHO) estimates that 200,000 of the 1m malaria deaths each year would be prevented if all the drugs taken were genuine.
But the epidemic goes far beyond anti-malarials. Bogus drugs have been found across the spectrum of life-threatening diseases. Anti-retrovirals for HIV-Aids and medicine for tuberculosis, meningitis, typhoid, pneumonia and even avian flu have been the target for highly organised criminals.
Up to 50% of the drugs sold in Asia and Africa are fakes, in a trade estimated by the US Food and Drug Administration to be worth between $35bn and $44bn (£18.5bn-£23.1bn) annually. WHO maintains that 30% of the world's countries have no drug regulation, or a capacity that is barely functional.
The fear is not only that many people are dying needlessly, but that diseases will become resistant to treatments as parasites survive and mutate, because "sub-therapeutic" doses - ineffective amounts of the active ingredient - are sometimes used in the fake drugs to fool patients into thinking that the treatment is working.
Dr Paul Newton, of the Oxford University Centre for Tropical Medicine, working in Vientiane, and colleagues say the scale of the bogus anti-malarials and their sophistication point to production on an industrial scale by unscrupulous manufacturers. Experts maintain that the trade is based in China, a focus for all manner of counterfeiting.
In December, according to the Chinese news agency Xinhua, three senior Chinese officials were arrested on charges of taking bribes to approve drugs. The distribution networks mirror the old heroin networks, flowing to Thai distributors with financing and money-laundering arranged in Hong Kong.
"We make no apology for the use of the term manslaughter to describe this criminal lethal trade," Dr Newton said. "Some might call it murder. Somewhere, people are directing a highly technical and sophisticated criminal trade. [They] are making these fakes in the full knowledge that their ineffective product might kill people who would otherwise survive their malaria infection."
A particular target of the criminals is the new malaria wonder-drug, artemisinin, a chemically derived plant extract. The active ingredient, known as artesunate, has proved especially effective against malaria whereas older remedies such as chloroquine have long-ago failed as the parasite has become resistant.
Dr Newton and his team highlighted their discovery that the largest manufacturer of artesunates, the Chinese company Guilin Pharma, was a victim of the attacks by the bogus drug makers. Anti-forgery holograms and the firm's packaging were painstakingly reproduced, along with a logo only visible under ultra-violet light. In all, 12 different fake drugs were sold as the Guilin brand's artesunate pills. The team spotlighted the dangers of a loss of confidence in the cure. They cited the case of 23-year-old man in eastern Burma who was treated in hospital with artesunates labelled Guilin Pharma. He was transferred to several larger hospitals but died of cerebral malaria. The original hospital tested its batch of artesunate and found that the whole stock was fake. "The village committee, which had clear idea of what was responsible for the man's death, was so angered ... that they collected all the artesunate, fake and genuine, that they could find in local shops and destroyed it on a public bonfire," Dr Newton wrote.

pai nai ma · 20-08-2008, 11:15 PM

Make a bit more sense.

Chong Boy · 20-08-2008, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camel Toe

I use Ranitadine for stomach acids. I can get them for 20B, 30B, 35B, 40B, or 50B

I pay 40-50 baht in any Udon pharmacy for them, picked up 15 strips for 17B a strip in a small Bangkok pharmacy the other day. Sometimes you get a bargain, sometimes you get fleeced.

My mum pays £10 in UK for a strip so even when we get ripped off we are a damned site cheaper than the cost back home!

Texpat · 20-08-2008, 11:43 PM

^ I'm not interested in what the price is back home...
What does a Thai pay for the same product?

You might well be surprised.

Happyman · 21-08-2008, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texpat

BPH? A little light on this?

BHP = Bangkok Phuket Hospital

Sorry - Thats what we call it - also suffer from the dreaded TDAD - been here too long !

Ok! Ok! TDAD = Thai Dreaded Acronymn Disorder !

bkkandrew · 21-08-2008, 05:19 AM

Never had a problem at the clinic I use on Rama 4. In 8-years have been about 5 times and diagnosis always correct, medication cheap and service speedy.

I guess it just depends where you go...

Tao · 21-08-2008, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkkandrew

I guess it just depends where you go...

Yup, they try to rip you off in one place then another will tell you to buy something else as it's cheaper. I've experienced both but i suppose people trying to scam you is more common.

JoGeAr · 21-08-2008, 08:11 AM

I suffer from arthritis and my staple diet is indomethacin. The best-known brand of this is Indocid which I used to pay around 45 baht for a 10-capsule blister pack. At the local pharmacy in Bangsaen I used to buy 100 capsules of locally-made indomethacin for 70 baht. A major saving and it was just as effective as the real thing.

Indoexile · 21-08-2008, 08:18 AM

Quote:

A major saving and it was just as effective as the real thing.

just to comment. slightly different to most of us here but there are a few studies around looking at the use and misuse of medicines in developing countries,

for many poor people an instant fix is needed, rather than concern about long term effects,

as a result many cheap, poor quality medicines or dangerous medicines are being eaten with abandon, including things like quartozone

Spin · 21-08-2008, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smeg

a product called "Counterpain"

I do believe i been been through this same situation when i crashed the dirtbike and pulled a muscle in my back. Pharmacy tried to sell me imported stuff for 300 baht plus and i ended up buying "Counterpain" "Cool" which is a rather nice blue gel product that works very well and cost me 30 baht.

Whiteshiva · 21-08-2008, 10:18 AM

Smeg, have you considered that the pharmacist may have past experiences with expats demanding imported drugs, believing that all locally produced stuff is sub-standard?

Just a thought......

good2bhappy · 21-08-2008, 10:25 AM

My experience is that they offer the imported brand name product first on the basis that foreigners trust their own etc and the profit margin.
If you ask for MIMS(TIMS) the book and search through the Thai generics you will be offered a cheaper alternative or they will even order it for you.

nidhogg · 21-08-2008, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by good2bhappy

My experience is that they offer the imported brand name product first on the basis that foreigners trust their own etc and the profit margin.
If you ask for MIMS(TIMS) the book and search through the Thai generics you will be offered a cheaper alternative or they will even order it for you.

Hmm. Interesting thread. OK. The missing piece: generics, especially those made in Thailand are simply substandard. Normally you want to work on 30 to 50% efficacy as compared to a reputable imported product (I am not talking "made in India"). Again, reputable overseas generic, no problem (talking "western made generics here).

All this means you get a veritable mismash of prices. Brand imports, western generics, Indian generics, Thai made generics, fakes.

good2bhappy · 21-08-2008, 10:39 AM

^ you got some evidence for Thai generics being 50% less effective?

Marmite the Dog · 21-08-2008, 10:59 AM

I've always used the same chemist and he's spot on every time. Speaks great English and charges the usual low prices.

I guess even Thais know a kunt when they see one.

nidhogg · 21-08-2008, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by good2bhappy

^ you some evidence for Thai generics being 50% less effective?

Fair question, but difficult to give a satisfactory answer. Anecdotal evidence (the worst sort I know) comes from working with Thai academic pharmacologists. I know thats not satisfactory. You will find the same answer if you talk to pretty much any Thai pharmacist.

Pubished evidence is hard to come by (no Thai scientist is gonna publish a study saying the local generics are crap!). However, the one story that was too big to keep quiet was the GPO-Vir story (anti HIV retroviral) - basically the drug was simply substandard and ended up causing a significant amount of resistance.

You can do a search on that.

Sorry, know not a convincing standard of proof, but best I can do for now.

good2bhappy · 21-08-2008, 12:12 PM

Thanks, you had me worried.
I buy my generics from SIAM Pharmaceuticals and am concerned as I have a heart condition and type 2 Diabetes

21-08-2008, 10:39 AM	#36 (permalink)
good2bhappy Senior Member Last Online: Yesterday 11:44 PM Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Klong Samwa Posts: 5,304	^ you got some evidence for Thai generics being 50% less effective? Last edited by good2bhappy : 21-08-2008 at 11:11 AM.

20-08-2008, 11:15 PM	#24 (permalink)
pai nai ma I am in Jail Last Online: 20-11-2008 08:35 PM Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,049	Make a bit more sense.

20-08-2008, 11:43 PM	#26 (permalink)
Texpat ฝรั่งพูดมาก Last Online: Today 12:46 AM Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Nong Khai Posts: 9,772	^ I'm not interested in what the price is back home... What does a Thai pay for the same product? You might well be surprised.

21-08-2008, 05:19 AM	#28 (permalink)
bkkandrew Clingin' on... Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: BKK Posts: 4,131	Never had a problem at the clinic I use on Rama 4. In 8-years have been about 5 times and diagnosis always correct, medication cheap and service speedy. I guess it just depends where you go...

21-08-2008, 08:11 AM	#30 (permalink)
JoGeAr Elite Member Last Online: Yesterday 07:47 PM Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chonburi/Brisbane Posts: 2,057	I suffer from arthritis and my staple diet is indomethacin. The best-known brand of this is Indocid which I used to pay around 45 baht for a 10-capsule blister pack. At the local pharmacy in Bangsaen I used to buy 100 capsules of locally-made indomethacin for 70 baht. A major saving and it was just as effective as the real thing.

21-08-2008, 10:18 AM	#33 (permalink)
Whiteshiva Elite Member Last Online: Yesterday 01:58 PM Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Nontaburi Posts: 3,802	Smeg, have you considered that the pharmacist may have past experiences with expats demanding imported drugs, believing that all locally produced stuff is sub-standard? Just a thought......

21-08-2008, 10:25 AM	#34 (permalink)
good2bhappy Senior Member Last Online: Yesterday 11:44 PM Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Klong Samwa Posts: 5,304	My experience is that they offer the imported brand name product first on the basis that foreigners trust their own etc and the profit margin. If you ask for MIMS(TIMS) the book and search through the Thai generics you will be offered a cheaper alternative or they will even order it for you.

21-08-2008, 10:59 AM	#37 (permalink)
Marmite the Dog Too drunk to fuck Last Online: Yesterday 10:51 PM Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Fuckwitistan Posts: 25,890	I've always used the same chemist and he's spot on every time. Speaks great English and charges the usual low prices. I guess even Thais know a kunt when they see one.

21-08-2008, 12:12 PM	#39 (permalink)
good2bhappy Senior Member Last Online: Yesterday 11:44 PM Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Klong Samwa Posts: 5,304	Thanks, you had me worried. I buy my generics from SIAM Pharmaceuticals and am concerned as I have a heart condition and type 2 Diabetes

21-08-2008, 11:06 PM	#40 (permalink)
keda Senior Member Last Online: Yesterday 05:45 PM Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 6,674