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Thread: Fasting

  1. #101
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    Thumbs up good on you

    Quote Originally Posted by wjblaney View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billy the kid
    Your own body is the only Temple to look after.
    Modify that to "Your own mind-body is the only Temple to look after." and I agree 100%.
    Is this the same wjblaney that I recall writings such as "it's a SoCal thing" regarding taking pharmaceuticals / recreational drugs to 'alleviate pain' ?

    Obviously from what I'm reading (unless I am remiss) this can not be the one and the same...or has there been a major change and overhaul in your life-style , WJB ?

    If it is the same, good for you to discover and walk the saner path in life. L'chaim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by billy the kid View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wjblaney
    "Your own mind-body is the only Temple to look after."
    What needs to be understood.

    Is your mind free and by free i mean not touched by any man-made doctrine.
    Most of us are born into it and have no choice in the matter.
    And any religion that is organised prevents, blocks out what is spiritual.
    It's never ever the real. And the human does have a religious 'Mind'.
    But like i say; it is blocked by man-made doctrine.
    Which is always the past operating. And thought is the past also.
    You have to stand alone which for some may seem scary but fear not.

    But we have had this conditioning for 100s, 1000s of years.

    To free your'self' from all this is real Freedom.
    And you can only know yourself in the 'Now'.

    Hey i know this ain't easy.

    Thought has its place but let's face it; it never shuts the fuck up and that's our problem.

    Attention is all and being 'aware' when thought butts in uninvited.
    Thought is a Control merchant and has its place when needed.

    Gurus tapping this market have profited big time.

    A true wise man will never ask you to follow, never.

    So you can do this on your own and for the rest of your life.

    And this is real Freedom.

    Do it walking in the street; use your eyes, ears , nose, without thought operating
    as it usually judges, compares, all that mularky.
    Same when talking to someone; give them respect by giving your full attention and not listening through your own noise or thoughts.

    Get my drift. Follow nobody, nothing.

    Then mind-body are one.
    All of what you said, every single word, is part of my belief system. Any true and knowledgeable follower of Vedanta (like my guru) would agree with every single word too. I can emphasize one thing you said: "A true wise man will never ask you to follow, never.". I follow Ramakrishna https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramakrishna

    So is it within your belief system to accept that I believe and try to practice everything you've said so far, plus can you accept that I hold other beliefs that are true to Vedanta but that you haven't mentioned?
    “The Master said, At fifty, I knew what were the biddings of Heaven. At sixty, I heard them with docile ear. At seventy, I could follow the dictates of my own heart; for what I desired no longer overstepped the boundaries of right.”

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeeCoffee
    Is this the same wjblaney that I recall writings such as "it's a SoCal thing" regarding taking pharmaceuticals / recreational drugs to 'alleviate pain' ?

    Obviously from what I'm reading (unless I am remiss) this can not be the one and the same...or has there been a major change and overhaul in your life-style , WJB ?

    If it is the same, good for you to discover and walk the saner path in life. L'chaim.
    It's 100% the same and ever since I was initialized into Vedanta in 1995. (I'm a very poor practioner Shalom!

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjblaney
    As nouns the difference between misery and suffering is that misery is great unhappiness; extreme pain of body or mind; wretchedness; distress; woe while suffering is the condition of someone who suffers; a state of pain or distress.
    With respect wjblaney, eastern systems or religions fill your head with this stuff.
    It will never bring about any understanding of human condition.
    Read this stuff until the end of time and nothing will ever change.
    They will always have some answer to maybe satisfy your thirst..

    When thought is absent, time does not register.
    Yea the clock still ticks away
    But in the mind it ain't there.
    Only when thought butts in that you are aware of it again.

    We are all programmed though we 'think' we are free.

    The money merchants and religio brigade are one and same people controlling our lives, methinks.
    We all live in bubbles and it is our duty as humans to burst the fuckers,

    It's a serious business to check all this out for yourself; to have a genuine urge to get to the root of all and it is Nature itself that will guide. It's all around you.
    Idle thought can be worse than idle hands.
    Only thought created this world we live in and now we're on the eve of destruction.
    For what?
    We gave our power away on a promise and 'In God we trust' on the dollar means nowt.
    Now we can't even challenge the power without being beaten down.
    The American elite have screwed the public and it is criminal.
    But they get to walk.

    Anyway, need another coffee.

  5. #105
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    This is the worst dyslexic fisting thread I've ever read.

    People fasting are easily upset and look irritable, so their bodies don't seem to be at balance with it.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjblaney
    So is it within your belief system
    I don't hold a belief system in spiritual matters.

    what i've said is not a philosophy or tied to any religious doctrine, Guru.

    This is the whole point in my posts. Follow nobody. nothing.

    You have to free yourself from it all and stand alone.
    Which ain't the same as lonely. But the opposite.
    The whole story is already in your head, be patient.
    It's a big letting go.

    Yes do your Meditation but realise that if there is any shadow of self/thought/image
    operating then it ain't Meditation. Some fail to grasp this.
    All that is the past and if you want something NEW,, get my drift.
    I know it's difficult. But the proof is in the NOW.

    Difficult explaining this on here but you get the gist eh.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaitongBoy
    Cheers, billy...
    Thank you BaitongBoy.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy the kid
    With respect wjblaney, eastern systems or religions fill your head with this stuff.
    It will never bring about any understanding of human condition.
    Read this stuff until the end of time and nothing will ever change.
    They will always have some answer to maybe satisfy your thirst..
    God Damn, Billy, while you were drinking your coffee, I had a page full of replies and links and it all got wiped out when I went to copy a link. When I returned, I was in the Bread thread. I don't find anything about that my fault or funny. Why can't posts have a save function? Now I'm really pissed and practically all worded out. I'll just try to begin again.

    First of all, I disagree with everything in your quote. My mind is not supposed to be "filled" with anything. The main purpose of meditation is to empty the mind. The four paths of Vedanta, which is a philosophy and not a religion, are meditation, devotion (love), karma (work) and knowledge. Knowledge is not really defined. So this coincides with your belief that the truth lies within (in so many words). Devotees are expected to choose one or more of those paths, even all four.

    Here's a link from Wiki about Vedanta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedanta It says Vedanta is very ancient and it's always been called one of the six orthodox schools of Hinduism. Notice the word "school". Is that something you don't like? I think you have to read that entire article before you're next reply. Just to make it a fun read; I don't have to believe everything I'm taught in school.

    Wow! I actually said everything I wanted to say and post it without a preview (I'll copy first). And it is as different from the wipeout as different can be. Stand by...

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjblaney
    and practically all worded out.
    Me too buddy me too.

    I had a look at the Vedanta and man o man what a mouthful that is.
    In my earlier yrs i checked a lot of this stuff out, spent time in India
    some of my buddies were hanging with Bagwan down in Poona but i couldn't get
    my head around that. Though they all seemed to enjoy it.
    It was already in my mind that a guy has to be able to live in this
    world without having to follow or belong to established movements.

    And by CHANCE things started to happen. You may have to be prepared to
    sacrifice, take a chance, maybe to risk everything (not material) because it's in your gut
    to go through with certain things and come out the other end.
    All shiny and new,, everything washed away to reveal something amazing.
    And everyone will do it their own way.

    When you do come out the other side
    you will see how all the usual institutions we were brought up in
    are a complete fraud and a lie.
    The word Holy is absolutely nothing like its portrayed. that it's all theatre.

    Quote Originally Posted by wjblaney
    The main purpose of meditation is to empty the mind.
    I've said that 'self/thought/image has got to be,,, absolutely has to be 'not' operating.
    Not even a shadow. And Meditation can be anywhere , on the bus , walking down the road. anywhere.

    If you agreed with first post and saw how it was agreeable with what you already know
    Then how come i also know the same stuff; how did it end up in my head.
    What i'm saying is if you had by-passed all that and come to an understanding in a different way( cause there are as many ways as there are people on the earth) you
    also would meet me on the same level.

    It's all down to you whether you follow a known text

    or set out to find your own way,,, into the unknown.

    This is important.

    If you want to uncondition the conditioned mind, the judging,comparing, thought occupied with self and it is occupied, thought has to be absent.
    Thought is all your past, going back thousands of yrs, cause a part of you goes back
    thousands, 100s of thousands of yrs. Otherwise you wouldn't be here now,

    Now i'm really worded out,
    Last edited by billy the kid; 10-06-2016 at 04:11 AM.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy the kid
    Me too buddy me too.

    I had a look at the Vedanta and man o man what a mouthful that is.
    In my earlier yrs i checked a lot of this stuff out, spent time in India
    some of my buddies were hanging with Bagwan down in Poona but i couldn't get
    my head around that. Though they all seemed to enjoy it.
    It was already in my mind that a guy has to be able to live in this
    world without having to follow or belong to established movements.

    And by CHANCE things started to happen. You may have to be prepared to
    sacrifice, take a chance, maybe to risk everything (not material) because it's in your gut
    to go through with certain things and come out the other end.
    All shiny and new,, everything washed away to reveal something amazing.
    And everyone will do it their own way.

    When you do come out the other side
    you will see how all the usual institutions we were brought up in
    are a complete fraud and a lie.
    The word Holy is absolutely nothing like its portrayed. that it's all theatre.
    Likesay, I like every word you write so I quoted the whole comment (for everybody else) but this is the paragraph I'm going to comment on:
    You may have to be prepared to
    sacrifice, take a chance, maybe to risk everything (not material) because it's in your gut
    to go through with certain things and come out the other end.
    All shiny and new,, everything washed away to reveal something amazing.
    And everyone will do it their own way.
    "You may have to be prepared to
    sacrifice, take a chance, maybe to risk everything". Hmmm. OK, today I'm into day 12 of an intended 15 day water fast. I actually am starting to believe I'll extend it: first to 21 and then to 30. That's max. These long water fasts are not unusual. The hunger pangs (in your stomach) end around day 3 but you have to understand what true hunger feelings are and what that means. True hunger originates in your mouth and throat, just like thirst. What it means is that you're starting to starve and it's also a sign to quit the fast immediately. That's me but people have extended their fasts beyond that for some reason I haven't learned yet. BTW, a water fast is exactly what it sounds like: no calories, no coffee, no Diet Coke, just water and nutriments and your regular mega vitamin should be sufficient for that.

    I'm doing this for two reasons: detox and too lose fat. I've been a gym and cardio rat for 20+ years and recently I suffered a couple of serious injuries that kept me out of the gym 6 weeks out of the past nine. And I binged. So weighed in at 83.5 K (6 feet tall) on day 9 (this past Tue.). I want to get down to 70-75 (70 k maybe too low) but don't think that will be possible as a result of this fast but I plan to go back to a healthy diet and gym workouts 3-4 days a week. Running is getting harder and harder to maintain focus on (I have no knee or hip problems bc I've always run on a treadmill) so I might have to suck it up and walk for 2-4 hours on my days between workouts. I may even have to try to get back on the treadmill or elliptical on my gym days. The problem now is a right pectoral strain. It's slowly getting better and it's easy for me to tell when it will be completely healed. But not going to the gym for awhile is a big motivation for continuing the fast. Oh, and I plan to incorporate water fasts into my lifestyle, although it's very important to take the required time off in between them.

    QUOTE="billy the kid"]I've said that 'self/thought/image has got to be,,, absolutely has to be 'not' operating.
    Not even a shadow. And Meditation can be anywhere , on the bus , walking down the road. anywhere.[/QUOTE]

    I used to run up to 40 miles a week and was still running hard earlier this year (I had a week of 40+ miles in 6 days) From day one I've thought of it as my meditation because I really felt the mind-body connection. I get through just 20 minutes of a typical meditation, I'm happy it's over and I didn't think I got anything out of it.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjblaney
    "You may have to be prepared to
    sacrifice, take a chance, maybe to risk everything". Hmmm. OK,
    Fear is the barrier to get through because it's an unknown that i'm dealing with. Decisions have to be made when you are confronted with a fear.
    I had 2 biggies to overcome and to do that i had to face them up.
    Which is what i did and fear evaporated on both.

    Now maybe i've crossed wires here.
    Are you happy to be with the Vedanta or Ramakrishna movement ?
    Does it give you all you need ?
    If so i have no problem with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by wjblaney
    I get through just 20 minutes of a typical meditation, I'm happy it's over and I didn't think I got anything out of it.
    What is typical meditation ? Sounds like a chore for you.
    If you're talking sitting in a lotus position and using a mantra then that is something else. The mantra used to suppress thought. I can see/know how that calms the mind but i don't do that. I have done it but it gave me a shock one fine day and so i went after something else off my own back. Something more fundamental to get to the root of my being and then Bingo i hit the jackpot And my whole world changed.
    I was back with nature, i had a oneness with it and all in it. like i was literally reborn. I had freedom itself. If i hadn't conquered the fears it would not have happened.

    So in your workouts you don't include Yoga ?
    Quote Originally Posted by wjblaney
    regular mega vitamin should be sufficient for that.
    Don't you need to be careful on the effect they have on the liver with a diet.
    I'm all for re-educating the body but that seems a harsh way of going about it as food and water are what the body is used too.
    I've put my body through the mill by cycling thousands of miles and climbing hills 10 hrs a day which can be more about mental grit than stamina. but usually its 50/50.
    And get as high as a kite
    I'm guessing you have knowledge as to what the body can take without doing any real damage to it. Know its limits.
    I think you need to be careful. What's good for some ain't necessarily good for others. Only one way to find out i guess. Hip joints and knee problems you don't need.ever.

    Gotta finish now

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    Quote Originally Posted by billy the kid
    Fear is the barrier to get through because it's an unknown that i'm dealing with. Decisions have to be made when you are confronted with a fear.
    I had 2 biggies to overcome and to do that i had to face them up.
    Which is what i did and fear evaporated on both.
    I like fear. I don't experience it down here in civilization but I've been a mountain climber since 1999, first in Peru, Ecuador and Bolivia and now that I'm in Thailand I've been trekking high and have had one successful summit in the Himalayas. I was going twice a year until this year. My last trip was Sept. 2015. Before I came to Thailand in 2010, I was a rock climber in Southern California. Believe me, I've had my share of real fear. And it is the greatest feeling in the world to overcome it and reach your goal. Besides those are sports and you can't wimp out in front of your friends.

    Quote Originally Posted by billy the kid
    Now maybe i've crossed wires here.
    Are you happy to be with the Vedanta or Ramakrishna movement ?
    Does it give you all you need ?
    If so i have no problem with that.
    Lots of remarks for such a short quote.

    What do you mean by 'crossed wires here'? If you mean I'm sensitive about my relationship with Vedanta, no way! I'm a horrible practitioner. I never meditate in the lotus position. I don't do yoga. My path is knowledge and I LOVE Vedanta. It gives me more than I need and I'm not a proper seeker of what it is I do need. That's a bad practitioner. I haven't given my mind enough attention in favor of the physical world, first when I discovered weight lifting in 1994, second, when I discovered running in 1998 and third and most importantly, when I discovered mountain climbing in 1999 and rock climbing soon after. In my later years (beginning soon, if not already begun) I hope to become a dedicated devotee.

    Quote Originally Posted by billy the kid
    What is typical meditation ? Sounds like a chore for you.
    If you're talking sitting in a lotus position and using a mantra then that is something else. The mantra used to suppress thought. I can see/know how that calms the mind but i don't do that. I have done it but it gave me a shock one fine day and so i went after something else off my own back. Something more fundamental to get to the root of my being and then Bingo i hit the jackpot And my whole world changed.
    I was back with nature, i had a oneness with it and all in it. like i was literally reborn. I had freedom itself. If i hadn't conquered the fears it would not have happened.

    So in your workouts you don't include Yoga ?
    I've told you about my relationship with yoga and meditation except for one thing: my guru gave me a secret mantra which I'm supposed to repeat like a prayer as well as when meditating.

    OK, so now you tell me what it was that you "went after something else off my own back. Something more fundamental to get to the root of my being and then Bingo i hit the jackpot And my whole world changed.
    I was back with nature, i had a oneness with it and all in it. like i was literally reborn. I had freedom itself. If i hadn't conquered the fears it would not have happened."

    Quote Originally Posted by billy the kid
    Don't you need to be careful on the effect they have on the liver with a diet.
    I'm all for re-educating the body but that seems a harsh way of going about it as food and water are what the body is used too.
    I've put my body through the mill by cycling thousands of miles and climbing hills 10 hrs a day which can be more about mental grit than stamina. but usually its 50/50.
    And get as high as a kite
    A mega vitamin? Come on, everybody takes those.

    It's a 50/50 debate on whether water fasting is good or bad for you. Western doctors will tell you it isn't. Proponents will tell you fasting is in our genes. Our ancient ancestors were forced to live only on water for long periods of time. They'll say it gets rid of years and years of toxins, scars will disappear during, it cures multiple maladies and you lose weight. Your vision improves, your skin looks much healthier and younger, your senses are all enhanced, as you can imagine with the taste buds. But I'm not going to get into this argument. I haven't been there yet.

    "I've put my body through the mill by cycling thousands of miles and climbing hills 10 hrs a day which can be more about mental grit than stamina. but usually its 50/50.
    And get as high as a kite"

    I've got one thing to say about that: WOW AND WOOHOOOOO!

    Quote Originally Posted by billy the kid
    Hip joints and knee problems you don't need.ever.
    Totally agree. And I believe squats, deadlifts, other leg exercises to a degree and even running will prevent those problems from happening.

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    I don't understand the point of fasting, or of any other diet for that matter.

    If you're too fat, or suffer of any other ailment that you believe is linked to your life style, by fasting you try to cure an excess with an other excess, hoping they will cancel each other. Then you will go back to your unhealthy lifestyle, stuck in a circle of excess.


    Weird logic.
    Last edited by Perota; 10-06-2016 at 10:32 AM.
    The things we regret most is the things we didn't do

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    I'm with you on that one. Not just fasting but a lot of these faddish diets etc.

    Why not just a sustainable and long-term healthy lifestyle.

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    I like the idea of respecting food and water, and air...More in the sense that we don't really need to eat as much as we may think...It's obscene, at times, how much we have when others have nothing, or very, very little...

    Their fasting is the real thing and they will go their whole lives that way...A long time, yet not a long life...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Perota
    If you're too fat, or suffer of any other ailment that you believe is linked to your life style, by fasting you try to cure an excess with an other excess, hoping they will cancel each other. Then you will go back to your unhealthy lifestyle, stuck in a circle of excess.


    Weird logic.
    Quote Originally Posted by AntRobertson
    I'm with you on that one. Not just fasting but a lot of these faddish diets etc.

    Why not just a sustainable and long-term healthy lifestyle.
    1. That's easy for you to say
    2. You obvious don't know how to walk in any one else's shoes
    3. I'm with the guy who first said "to each his own"

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    1. Yeah, it's easy to do also;
    2. I do but I just don't see the point of trying to walk in shoes that don't fit and have the laces tied together;
    3. that may well have been me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Perota
    I don't understand the point of fasting
    The point of fasting is to give your metabolism a chance to fully process your food. A car analogy is apt. If the spark plugs are getting old, the fuel burns less efficiently. New or young spark plugs burn good, so if you're a young'un no need to fast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AntRobertson View Post

    I just don't see the point of trying to walk in shoes that don't fit and have the laces tied together;



    A point clearly made.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Munted View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Perota
    I don't understand the point of fasting
    The point of fasting is to give your metabolism a chance to fully process your food. A car analogy is apt. If the spark plugs are getting old, the fuel burns less efficiently. New or young spark plugs burn good, so if you're a young'un no need to fast.
    If you use proper fuel, the sparks won't get dirty.

    If you don't take proper care of your car, it won't work so well, it will often let you down and service will be costly. It's all a matter of using the proper oil and fuel and regular maintenance. A old car well maintained can drive just as fine as a new one.
    Last edited by Perota; 10-06-2016 at 04:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Perota
    If you use proper fuel, the sparks won't get dirty.
    Spark plugs wear out. Fuel does not. If you eat like you did when you were 20, and you are 50 , you will get fat and you will probably get diabetes. That's due to the natural deterioration of the metabolic processes. So you need to restrict your food intake to give your older metabolism the time to fully process your food.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Perota
    I don't understand the point of fasting, or of any other diet for that matter.
    It gives you more power over your appetite. Snickers has an ad campaign about being hangry. It's good marketing. Some people miss a meal and get all uptight like the world's falling apart (seems to be quite prevalent in Thailand). Yesterday we had to work through lunch, I barely noticed, others could not function without food intake to satisfy their appetite. And that is where fasting helps. In the modern world where food is everywhere fasting helps you distinguish between appetite and real hunger. You become more aware of the difference and don't eat for emotion/boredom/reward/whatever it is that you associate food with.

    Given, some people don't need to.
    Those people will look on in bewilderment in the same way I look at vegetarians/greenies/right-wingers/people who pay 5 bucks for a cup of coffee.
    Some people think it don't, but it be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wjblaney
    "went after something else off my own back. Something more fundamental to get to the root of my being and then Bingo i hit the jackpot And my whole world changed.
    well you go with what you got and you go with what nature/life provides up to the point where you say fuck what people tell me or some estab sect etc. I'm gonna do it my way; it may go tits up or maybe something else will happen. At that point i simply don't know but i have an idea of what may work and so i go with it body and soul. But what comes from my head ain't gonna work for somebody else and could be quite dangerous.
    Any man who is looking to change has to do it off his own back and not listen to others. It's not a cop-out not telling you. If you are satisfied/happy with what you have in Vedanta then go with the flow of that.
    What worked for me came from my own head and life up to that point
    If you're satisfied with what you got then stay with it.

    If you want to change your life, really change it, then only you should be in charge of how you manage it.

    If you face fear in a sporting challenge then it's attention to the task which will see you through.
    The fear i mention is a totally different thing.
    Because no matter how much time i would give to attention i have absolutely no idea of outcome. Nada.
    But i'm prepared to sacrifice because it is that important to me.

    So now in my book nobody should follow another in matters of the spirit.

    So you don't ask; because that is our habit; help me help me. Wanting to know the HOW, You will find plenty to help you but it is always second hand.

    Get up stand up for your self by yourself. In matters of spirit.
    And learn what Love really means; not just for the one , but for life itself and nature.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntRobertson
    1. Yeah, it's easy to do also;
    2. I do but I just don't see the point of trying to walk in shoes that don't fit and have the laces tied together;
    3. that may well have been me.
    You are way too egotistical.
    1.It ain't easy. It takes physical effort. You don't know anything about your insides, just the way you look. Every morning I wake up feeling like I just had the hardest workout of my life. I feel like a physical wreck. Just because when I get up and walk around and stretch that within 5 minutes I feel normal, doesn't mean that I didn't have a hard workout.

    You're wrong, bro'.
    2. You are a sarcastic asshole
    3. You are two times a sarcastic asshole. One more time and you're on my red list.

  25. #125
    Thailand Expat AntRobertson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjblaney
    You are way too egotistical.
    1.It ain't easy. It takes physical effort. You don't know anything about your insides, just the way you look. Every morning I wake up feeling like I just had the hardest workout of my life. I feel like a physical wreck. Just because when I get up and walk around and stretch that within 5 minutes I feel normal, doesn't mean that I didn't have a hard workout.

    You're wrong, bro'.
    2. You are a sarcastic asshole
    3. You are two times a sarcastic asshole. One more time and you're on my red list.
    Jaysus, how precious can you get. If you want to do this fasting stuff then go for it, I hope it works out for you. All I did was post my opinion so I don't know why you're getting so defensive and aggro about it all (but the fact that you are tells me that you're trying to convince yourself a bit too much).

    You have in fact completely missed the point. Maybe this fasting stuff is making you grumpy and cantankerous.

    Ps. You may as well red me now because as soon as I'm able I'm going to red you for your little tantrum and calling me a sarcastic asshole.
    Last edited by AntRobertson; 11-06-2016 at 02:28 PM.

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