Thread: Advice for a restaurant in Pattaya

Originally Posted by Troy

Originally Posted by Gilbert

I think we have different standards, LT. You are talking about "good feeds" where as I am talking about sustainable restaurants.

Are you going to come up with a Restaurant Guide for Pattaya?
Several categories come to mind...you could even come up with a Michelin equivalent for the place...

I don't think he's capable.

Originally Posted by Morden

Originally Posted by Troy

Originally Posted by Gilbert

I think we have different standards, LT. You are talking about "good feeds" where as I am talking about sustainable restaurants.

Are you going to come up with a Restaurant Guide for Pattaya?
Several categories come to mind...you could even come up with a Michelin equivalent for the place...

I don't think he's capable.

Come on then - show me one part of what i have said which is wrong? Come on - pit your 10 minutes of chucking your cash into, as I hear, a mostly empty restaurant in Issan against my experience. Have a go - sitting on the sidelines chucking aspersions - amazed you have the time with all the customers in your gaff non stop....

How about giving us the benefit of your experience perhaps as I am obviously so far off the mark? Something other than being a predictable failure fucktard.

Originally Posted by Gilbert

How about for 40 + people, all arriving in groups over the space of an hour.

I'm not sure this is a factor for a "Successful Restaurant" nor is it a factor for one that is well managed. As I have said before, restaurants come under different categories and have different success criteria.

For example, there are many very successful and well managed restaurants that I frequent in France, Germany and the UK that could not cater for 40+ people in the space of an evening, let alone one hour. I think you mean that they manage their covers efficiently and only have enough to meet their capabilities. One particular restaurant in Rennes, that I enjoy going to, only has about 10 tables (40 people) and the menu is limited to 4 - 4 - 4 (starters, main, dessert). These change every month or so but they are so well prepared and cooked that it would still be full every night if they didn't. The wines stocked are also limited but, again they match the food perfectly so it doesn't matter.

I imagine quite a few successful places in Europe would fail badly in Pattaya simply because of the difference in clientele.

Originally Posted by Gilbert

Originally Posted by Morden

Originally Posted by Troy

Originally Posted by Gilbert

I think we have different standards, LT. You are talking about "good feeds" where as I am talking about sustainable restaurants.

Are you going to come up with a Restaurant Guide for Pattaya?
Several categories come to mind...you could even come up with a Michelin equivalent for the place...

I don't think he's capable.

Come on then - show me one part of what i have said which is wrong? Come on - pit your 10 minutes of chucking your cash into, as I hear, a mostly empty restaurant in Issan against my experience. Have a go - sitting on the sidelines chucking aspersions - amazed you have the time with all the customers in your gaff non stop....

How about giving us the benefit of your experience perhaps as I am obviously so far off the mark? Something other than being a predictable failure fucktard.

You're the one that's showing off what you believe is your knowledge, not me, Gilbert Ramsey.

Some more items for your training course and consultancy business:

Licensing law

Recruitment, training and management of employees

Insurance

Marketing/advertising

Exterior image and internal decor

Kitchen equipment needs.

There's no need to offer payment or thanks for my suggestions. Just let my wife and I have a free meal at your restaurant when you have one and I'll gladly review it on a public forum.

Morden - where have I ever said anything about a training course or consultancy? It is you who keep banging on about it. I started a thread where people can put up ideas about restaurants IN PATTAYA where they are mostly shit and a lot of people lose their shirts or savings. There might be some bloke thinking about it who is completely out of his depth and thinks the same as Poster Fluke, who realises through reading this that it is not a good idea. For every 1 who succeeds 9 go out of business, and I prefer to save the misery of the 9 where as you want to pretend to be the "1".

This is not about old retired blokes moving to Issan and in the middle of nowhere with a small catchment area of other old farangs opens a reasonable place with Pizzas and a standard nursing home menu. Well done - you did it right. You found a location with a guaranteed patronage and no competition. Your singularly arrogant attitude makes me suggest that you need to stay the hell away from the place and let your missus run it though; not many people go back to a place with a grumpy old twot ruining the atmosphere and if your customers leave there are none left to replace them. In fact your biggest challenge is the mortality rate of your customers.

You have a small tight menu with limited chances for wastage. You run events to get the old codgers in a couple of times a week. You are doing things right. Would this work in Pattaya? I doubt it. But where you are, as long as you own the building and are not subject to the inevitable successful place rent rises, you'll be gone before you restaurant is.

However, you know nothing about running a restaurant where there is competition in a highly saturated market. You know nothing of the actual trade at all and even though you clearly think that because you are stumbling along with your guaranteed clientèle, do not rest on your laurels. You keep posting up points from Restaurant 101 how to physically open a restaurant which is useful but a quick google search will tell anyone that. This thread is not about this and the fact you do not realise this is testament to the fact that you know fuck all.

Feel free to tell me which of my points in previous posts you disagree with? Other posters have and some I agree with and other I do not. However they put some thought into it. You on the other hand took the deli thread personally for some reason, and now are determined to hijack and ruin this thread. The day you open a restaurant with competition other than a somtam shack then let us know.

However, here's some free advice for you - you have decent espresso machine - use that and ditch the jar of Nescafe Gold! No excuse at all, and the difference in profit v customer satisfaction is tangible. Serve me nescafe when I see a Gaggia espresso machine and I never come back.

More fiction!

I suggested that you start a training and consultancy business because you have set yourself up as an armchair expert and I thought that you might enjoy actually doing something useful.

My objection to you is that slagged off a small business just because you didn't like the way it presented itself. That's small mindedness. You didn't have the guts to tell the owners what you thought. Your negativity could have been turned into something positive if you handled your disappointment better.

More fiction? So you are not the proud owner of what some might conclude to be a top cafe then in Korat?

Oh dear. Maybe I have got it very wrong. However, Armchair expert I am not. I own 5 restaurants right now, and started in this game 13 years ago having trained as a chef before that. I can not be bothered with the details, but the comments from other above who bother to put some thought into it generally shows that my suggestions are valid and the only person who, although not discussing them, is trying to flame the messenger is you.

Also, the small businesses you are defending (with no knowledge of them) both post on here so they can feel free to jump in and defend themselves if they so chose. They do not though.
Ditch the nescafe pal - it's lazy and cheap and devalues what you do.....

Well done with your restaurants. As I keep writing, it's your slagging off to which I objected. I'm even more surprised that you did it if you own businesses. I have never before come across a business owner who did that and you lay yourself and your businesses open to the same treatment.

My thoughts. I have no experience so these just come from being a customer.

Make western foods not West-Thai fusion crap unless that's what you are advertising. Advertise the style of your food so people know what they can expect. I hate getting egg and weird stuff like corn in spaghetti sauce. Don't skimp on ingredients but make your product affordable.

Keep your place reasonably clean. Don't waste money on fancy bathrooms and furniture if your going to be serving drunks, people in shorts and backpackers but at the same time keep the place clean. Change your music every now and again. Be friendly to everyone especially as the owner. Don't sit somewhere in the place looking like a jerk. Make sure you and your workers are clean-looking and especially have clean hands. Be extremely sorry when a hair or something is in the food or when the order goes wrong. Keep the street outside your place very clean and if necessary clean down the street in front of other businesses on both sides. Don't have smelly street dogs around your place. Do something about the flies that might come in and get rid of ants and bugs especially in the area where you cook. Don't waste money on TVs. Have fast service. Offer free water- something many just won't do. Many tourists won't drink it so they'll request bottled. Still, others will be really happy about a glass of water. If you run a bar, offer a free glass of water for those who've bought a drink. It can be from a 5 gallon bottle, nothing special. Encourage your neighbors to improve their businesses and help them with your ideas. You can improve the area and so your business.



Oh, one more thought. An expat friend once said 'If you can't do it with love, don't do it at all' That's a good way to look at life and business. If your customers see you have a good heart and smile they'll remember you.

Originally Posted by Gilbert

It was a direct reference to cooking a roast dinner for a restaurant which had been declared to be very easy. I was simply saying it was not, and gave that as an example.

I take your point about clientèle. Can it really be true that all most farangs here want in an eatery is Fish and Chips, Pork chops and mash, steak and chips, burger and fries, Spag Bol (beef or pork) or a pizza served with an Archa beer and a mug of nescafe to help them feel classy?

Apologies again. It is not easy, unless you serve only advanced bookings with a known menu and, even then, you can still get things wrong.

If I wanted to set up a Restaurant in Pattaya, the questions would be:
1. Who do I want to attract?
2. Do I want to cater for the masses, the high end or somewhere in between?
3. Do I want to make a short term profit and sell on or do it long term?
4. Do I want to jump in the deep-end or ramp up?

The answers would depend on my capabilities and budget.

If I was a pro, and had the money, I might decide to go for the top end market in one restaurant and have another for the masses.

A survey may be useful to gauge the wishes of the market I opt to serve.

Originally Posted by Gilbert

I own 5 restaurants right now, and started in this game 13 years ago having trained as a chef before that. I can not be bothered with the details, but the comments from other above who bother to put some thought into it generally shows that my suggestions are valid and the only person who, although not discussing them, is trying to flame the messenger is you.

Congrats and hope you success in your career. Are your restaurants in Thailand or Europe? Are you thinking of starting up in Pattaya?

I am not in the catering business at all. However, I had the choice early in life to become a chef. I turned it down in favour of engineering. I did help a couple in our village set up a small eatery, which proved very successful...and they moved to BKK with the knowledge gained. The advice I gave was more to do with growing the food (they looked after my garden produce) and stock taking/finances than with what was being cooked.

Originally Posted by Morden

Well done with your restaurants. As I keep writing, it's your slagging off to which I objected. I'm even more surprised that you did it if you own businesses. I have never before come across a business owner who did that and you lay yourself and your businesses open to the same treatment.

Who did I slag off? I wrote a thread about a couple of shops that were pretending to be something they are not in an attempt to lure in customers. You get the hump and start getting all shitty about it, not even attempting to get involved in this completely different thread and just chucking out abuse. Get the fuck over it and yourself. You are taking something personally which is not about you or about the place you live.

Originally Posted by Troy

Apologies again. It is not easy, unless you serve only advanced bookings with a known menu and, even then, you can still get things wrong.

If I wanted to set up a Restaurant in Pattaya, the questions would be:
1. Who do I want to attract?
2. Do I want to cater for the masses, the high end or somewhere in between?
3. Do I want to make a short term profit and sell on or do it long term?
4. Do I want to jump in the deep-end or ramp up?

The answers would depend on my capabilities and budget.

If I was a pro, and had the money, I might decide to go for the top end market in one restaurant and have another for the masses.

A survey may be useful to gauge the wishes of the market I opt to serve.

Sound advice - exactly what most people do not think about. A critical one as well is not so much who I want to attract but who are are my customers. Who is about. What is the foot fall like outside the gaff. Is there foot fall or a Khao talo style nightmare scenario of a road. It is usually a smarter move to cater for the existing customer base than to think you will attract customers to an area where they are not to be found usually. If you do have a specific model / style you are looking to achieve, then location location location - find them and go to them.

Originally Posted by Troy

Congrats and hope you success in your career. Are your restaurants in Thailand or Europe? Are you thinking of starting up in Pattaya?

They are in Shanghai and BJ - the missus got bored up there though and wanted to return to Thailand. I don't like Bangkok so we moved to Pong to enjoy the weather. Still not sure what to do the the restaurants as they are all very different so not a good proposition for most people interested in buying en masse.

I assessed the Pattaya / Thailand market of course, but in Pattaya I am convinced it is a good way to lose money quickly and I have no interest in doing anything that brings me into contact with the rozzers. I did look at the Lakeside by the lake though but it needs too much work. Would make a great Deli, coffee shop, light bites type of place I guess but there is so little passing trade that it's not worth it. I run a different business here instead which I am rather enjoying in that there is no desperate need for it to turn over mega bucks.

Originally Posted by Troy

I am not in the catering business at all. However, I had the choice early in life to become a chef. I turned it down in favour of engineering. I did help a couple in our village set up a small eatery, which proved very successful...and they moved to BKK with the knowledge gained. The advice I gave was more to do with growing the food (they looked after my garden produce) and stock taking/finances than with what was being cooked.

Sounds ideal - chef for fun and engineer for money lol. I am in the process of starting a vege garden - bloody rain wiped out a load of seedlings a couple of nights ago due to lethargy on my behalf. However, I have 4 Mango seeds taking nicely which amuses the missus. No tomatoes any more but mango in 5 years

Finance / stock is critical of course. Most places fold through not having sufficient working capital and the more busier they get the more in debt they get.

interesting and amusing thread....

most of what is mentioned is basic business sense, however restaurants and bars fail all the time anyplace in the world.
Many reasons ...poor food, poor management, excessive overhead/fixed and variable costs, poor location or the plain fickle customer base.
Ex and I in Canada bought a newish well equipped and decorated soup/san muffin shop....BIL restauranteur flew out from Toronto to help her get started after the fact. He often sat down with pencil and paper and watched..
Upshot opinion was "sell the frickin thing ..you've bought yourself a frickin hard 14hr a day job and free groceries"
We did... thereafter we observed a la BIL while dining in restaurants playing the fail/close soon or not game.....we were correct in our assessment a good portion of time..sadly some of our favourites went under or closed.
Service industry is among the hardest rows to hoe methinks

Location, L, L.
Small menu with regular specials
Money in the bank to see you for a while
Don't hire family (difficult to fire or yack) unless trained/exceptional
Get staff from cooking/catering schools (Dusit etc.)
Don't pay peanuts....
Check and re-check quality
Watch wastage
Good English speaking staff with a bit of brains not the "do you have iced coffee?" "no" " do you have coffee?" "yes" " do you have ice?" "yes"!!!!!!!
Buy local fresh ingredients, do not freeze too much.
Check the till and bills all the time
Get Cv's or references and contact no.s for all staff, and check them!