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  1. #1
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    WhiteLotusLane's Avatar
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    How much land would you need to be self-sufficient for food?

    I googled around on this question but of course there are large differences between different places on Earth.. some places you're not doing a whole lot of agriculture between November and March for example.

    So for Thailand, assuming there's plenty water available, how many rai would you need per person to grow pretty much all your food yourself? (So including some chickens/ducks and fish, but not necessarily including larger livestock.) In addition you'd have rice or other grains/corn and/or potatoes, fruit, a vegetable and herb garden, etc.

  2. #2
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    If it's got permanent water, ie two annual rice crop type country, i'd say you could do it with 25 rai- but with the small cash you extract after eating your own stuff, you'll be drinking lao khao and Archa. Insects, frogs and paddy rats will also be additions to your diet.

    If you have the capital to buy a Kubota or two, and do some local ploughing and earthworks too you'll have a much better disposable income.

  3. #3
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    Not alot a should imagine..although separating the livestock from the crops could be a pain, especially the chickens. I'd say 2 rai.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteLotusLane
    rice
    Forgot about that...yeh you'd need abit more then.

  5. #5
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteLotusLane
    how many rai would you need per person to grow pretty much all your food yourself?
    Productivity/rai varies greatly depending on location but you can figure about 350kg/rai. As I recall average rice consumption per person in Thailand about 100kg/year.

    Throw in a few fruit trees, veggies and fish ponds and I would say 2 rai could "theoretically" support a family of 3. Life style/diet would have to be extremely local though. Bugs, frogs, rats and the like would definitely be on the menu.
    "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect,"

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    Don't know about Thailand but in Tanzania our work camp - 8 expats and 12 locals was just about totally self sufficient with 9 acres (dunno the Rai conversion ) of lakeside land .
    Veggies, fish , maize, goat and fruit . It was constant cropping - no specific growing season ( except for the mangos!)
    Only shipped in booze, ciggies,wheat flour for the bread, sugar and coffee.
    Basic catering but did us OK!

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    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happyman
    9 acres
    23 rai.

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    ^

    Thanks Mr Norts !

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    Have you got any cheese Thetyim's Avatar
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    Crofters in Scotland could survive on 2 acres.
    Thats about 5 rai and of course a winter which is bloody cold.

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    I'd like to see someone support a family on 5 rai or less.
    Even the locals with smallish 15 rai farms are doing casual labouring to supplement their income.
    Figure in a bit of spending cash for booze, kids education, run a car or even a motosai- nope, I think you'll need 20 rai at least or an outside source of income.

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    Thailand Expat Jesus Jones's Avatar
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    If it's just to supply your own food, and not for an additional income then 2 to 5 rai would be enough. My GF and I have just done the same thing purely to grow most of our own produce. (Veg/fruit)

    Family of four, but no doubt it will get spread around.
    Last edited by Jesus Jones; 08-06-2009 at 06:56 PM.
    You bullied, you laughed, you lied, you lost!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    I'd like to see someone support a family on 5 rai or less.
    Even the locals with smallish 15 rai farms are doing casual labouring to supplement their income.
    Figure in a bit of spending cash for booze, kids education, run a car or even a motosai- nope, I think you'll need 20 rai at least or an outside source of income.
    Undoubtedly right !
    I know less than f*ckall about subsistence farming in Thailand - our outside source was the ex-pat salaries !!!!

    On the other hand -before I retired - I handled insurance problems for farms in the region but they were for multinational - multi sq Km palm oil, fish farms and other plantations and your comments certainly give food for thought - Thanks

  13. #13
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteLotusLane
    how many rai would you need per person to grow pretty much all your food yourself?
    Quote Originally Posted by sabang
    I'd like to see someone support a family on 5 rai or less.
    Apples and Hondas, mate!

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    How about the air you breathe? Takes alot of green stuff tp produce your O2. I think it takes a bit more land to sustain a human.

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    I would think that every sitiation would be different and therefore the requirements {amount of rai needed} would vary. Some could be quite comfortable with a handful of rai, where others couldn't function without substantial land....

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    If you can pay cash for stuff like rice, transport, electricity and booze then yeh- you can grow quite a bit of food on even two rai, and run a few chooks and a fishpond too. We're getting that going up here actually- nothing like home grown veges.

    If you mean true self sufficiency- as in to trade or barter excess produce for cash and other goods you'll need a good deal more land.

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    I wouldn't waste land growing rice or other grains. You don't need them and they are extremely inefficient crops when compared against vegetables and fruits.

    I'd say you could easily survive with 2 or 3 rai as long as you have a permanent water source for watering the crops as well as fish.

    I would only have cattle for milk and my meat would come from pigs, chickens and ducks.

  18. #18
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog
    I'd say you could easily survive with 2 or 3 rai as long as you have a permanent water source for watering the crops as well as fish.
    There are several here in the village I live in who do just that. But, the word survive should be noted. As Sabang points out, if one needs motosi, pickups, TV and the like, farming as a profitable venture requires far more land. Even with substantial land, farming is at best not the best way to make a living. Buying from the farmers and reselling is far more profitable.

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    Any brits here remember 'The Good life"? They were self sufficient on about 50 talang wah!

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    Just to live, you can do it on 2 or 3 rai, but it would be boring.
    Got a sister in law that did just that for awhile, if she didn't grow it or catch it out of our pond they didn't eat it, but we do have a 6 or 7 rai pond.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    If you can pay cash for stuff like rice, transport, electricity and booze then yeh- you can grow quite a bit of food on even two rai, and run a few chooks and a fishpond too. We're getting that going up here actually- nothing like home grown veges.

    If you mean true self sufficiency- as in to trade or barter excess produce for cash and other goods you'll need a good deal more land.
    Could you imagine what an expanding trade/bater/co-op practice would do to the systems of suppressive control? At least such interaction is real, as opposed to the monetary system of fakery....

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    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rural Surin
    Could you imagine what an expanding trade/bater/co-op practice would do to the systems of suppressive control?
    Barter done on a small scale all over Isaan. All in all barter for many things is a superior form of economics. Governments don't care much for it. No way to get their tax piece of flesh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rural Surin
    Could you imagine what an expanding trade/bater/co-op practice would do to the systems of suppressive control?
    Barter done on a small scale all over Isaan. All in all barter for many things is a superior form of economics. Governments don't care much for it. No way to get their tax piece of flesh.
    Yes, yes. Very common way of doing things thoughout Isaan {and other regions}.

  24. #24
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    Thanks so far for all the replies!!

    I guess realistically it makes more sense to specialize in one or two cash crops rather than try to grow vegetables that cost about 2 baht in any market..

  25. #25
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    Sure. The other thing is that the price of the cash crops is so volatile year on year it's difficult to make an informed investment decision, just pot luck. Rice is paying pretty well now, but taro has gone right down, palm oil was good for a while, last thing I knew right down. Tobaccy might be OK to look in to, but you need the right land. A smart operator can run two different crops a year on the same land, but no one seems to around here. There is said to be OK opportunities in certain woods- but you have to wait a number of years for your pay off.

    Personally, if I was looking at a cash in cash out business up here in Isaan I'd prolly go fish ponds- readily saleable and don't need big investment or upkeep for a basic operation. Maybe some forestry as a longer term proposition- but you have to wait for your money. And/or tobacco to round it off- but clearly we've gone beyond a few rai self-sufficiency operation.

    I don't want to sound negative, but if you're in a situation where you 'need' to make some sort of return off Thai land, keep working and saving for a few more years. You can always buy land and share farm it for a while- Somchai does the work, you split the profits, and see how it goes- you'll learn as you go along.
    Last edited by sabang; 09-06-2009 at 01:27 AM.

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