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  1. #1
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    hick's Avatar
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    recent rice land offer

    Hello and please accept my apologies for going straight to posting rather than the usual Intros, etc. I feel I'm on a time sensitive issue here.

    I'll graciously accept any comments regarding this impending transaction.



    Being a long time reader here (especially in this section) I know many of you are quite knowledgeable in the area of land, farming and general rural living in Thailand. For this reason, I come to you today.

    I'd put my shingle out through a few acquaintances regarding interest in purchasing farmland in Issan either as a short or long term investment or simply as a gift.

    Something very close to home surfaced today.



    My sweet little Issaner teerak has an uncle. Her Mom's sister is married to him. We call him "Police," cuz he's been an accountant for the police for most of his working life. He has always been more than kind and gracious to her immediate family (my in-laws) over the years, long before she met the token breadwinner of the farangi persuasion (that'd be me). I've met him on several occasions and if my perceptions mean anything - he's about as solid as they come.


    The Police's grandfather signed 7 Rai of rice paddy (Chanote) land over to him several years ago and since that time it has been producing "suay" rice and doing quite well. I believe any earnings are still sent to Grandpa who lives quite a distance away.

    Well, grandpa wants to sell and Police has offered it me.



    This is located between Udon and Sakonnakorn, closer to Udon and East of HWY 2.

    • 7 Rai of Rice land (currently ready to cut)
    • 250,000 baht w/ Chanote
    • Flat land
    • Old waterhole (may need fresh dredging)
    • Next to family plots
    • Right off concrete road / connects to highway


    Recently 2 rai was purchased nearby by others @ 400,000
    Others have shown interest but don't have the scratch.
    Also, he has NOT broadcasted this around the village, nor published anything or registered with any agents. In short, he considers this offer a family favor of sorts.



    Ok, so...with my limited knowledge and zero experience, what are my pitfalls?



    I understand the traps in buying land, period - but this seems a decent price. Was even considering offering him 300, since he's a stand up guy.



    My head is STILL spinning from reading through threads here, digesting agency info. and Thai govt. docs. Can someone tell me in plain English?? (Does the Chanote titled land guarantee a legal sale in my wife's name)? Ok, there are no guarantees in life and even fewer in Thai property deals, but Chanote is as good as it gets in terms of your chances, right?



    Thanks for any suggestions, urges to buy, urges to reconsider or otherwise.


    All the best
    Last edited by hick; 15-11-2016 at 07:10 PM.

  2. #2
    Thailand Expat Pragmatic's Avatar
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    What is your interpretation of Chanote?

    Can you post a photo of the top right hand corner of the land paper? That will define the status of the title.

  3. #3
    RUSH HER TODAY david44's Avatar
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    You don't state location even prior to the new regime border areas and areas of interest could be reclaimed by the state, most border areas have no Cahnote up here, notice many illegal properties owned by poo yais cops military.
    If you wish to help give them cash I'd think as an investment for your family ok but for you?
    Dumpy Trump and Rumpy Pumpy, sic transit pax americana

  4. #4
    Kraut Koonta stroller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hick
    Ok, so...with my limited knowledge and zero experience, what are my pitfalls?
    Your teerak, for how long have you known her?

  5. #5
    Thailand Expat
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatic
    Can you post a photo of the top right hand corner of the land paper? That will define the status of the title.
    I'll try to get that. Not in Thailand now but I believe "Police" will send it if I ask.

    Quote Originally Posted by david44
    You don't state location even prior to the new regime border areas and areas of interest could be reclaimed by the state, most border areas have no Cahnote up here, notice many illegal properties owned by poo yais cops military.
    Outside Amphur Ban Dung. As for your other info. I admit I'm just clueless.

    Quote Originally Posted by stroller
    Your teerak, for how long have you known her?
    Going on 7 years - married for two of them.

  6. #6
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    First off, I am sure you understand the land will never be truly yours. If your wife is planning to be around for awhile and you have faith in your relationship, I see no harm in taking the risk to purchase. We are not speaking about a whole lot of money and land is a much better investment than anything I have seen in Thailand. I will tell you a story about some land I paid for and you can decide things on your own. I gave my wife enough money to purchase some land on one of the main roads here about 10 years ago. It was 350,000 baht and we had originally planned to build a house on it. We saw another plot that we liked more, so it was purchased and we ultimately built our house on it while the other land sat empty. I told her to not sell land since it has been going up steadily in our area. I was just told today that a plot of land half our size across the street from ours just sold for 1,000,000 baht. You can do the math yourself to calculate the possible gain our land has made in 10 years.

    It all boils down to if you are willing to part with the money knowing what you know now about your relationship with your significant other and if you are willing to take the risk.

  7. #7
    Thailand Expat Pragmatic's Avatar
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    Hick, if the land isn't Chanote title, which I don't think it is due to the price being asked. If it's plain Sor Por Kor -ish land it can't really be sold at all or can only be transferred upon death named on the paper and only then to a family member.

    Check who's name is on the paper.

    Quote Originally Posted by hick
    2 rai was purchased nearby by others @ 400,000
    Quote Originally Posted by hick
    250,000 baht w/ Chanote
    This guy wants to sell his land, if it is his land then he's prepared to accept about half its value. Is that correct?

  8. #8
    Thailand Expat
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    Ok guys, thanks for your quick replies.

    As it (JUST) turned out - there is no Chanote.
    Her mother understood wrong....which is....believable and quite predictable.

    It is a 1/2 Nor Sor 3 and a 1/2 some other paper(??) I'm very fkin' confused. haha
    There are 7 names on this paper at the moment.

    They claim that a new document would not be generated, but rather her name would be added....

    Maybe all of that means something to you guys...maybe not(?)

    I just killed the idea. I'm out.

    Thanks again.



    I do enjoy all of your posts on these issues and will just keep on reading.


  9. #9
    Thailand Expat
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatic
    Hick, if the land isn't Chanote title, which I don't think it is due to the price being asked. If it's plain Sor Por Kor -ish land it can't really be sold at all or can only be transferred upon death named on the paper and only then to a family member.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatic
    This guy wants to sell his land, if it is his land then he's prepared to accept about half its value. Is that correct?
    You've nailed it Pragmatic. Nailed it to a cross!

  10. #10
    Thailand Expat
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickschoppers
    I was just told today that a plot of land half our size across the street from ours just sold for 1,000,000 baht. You can do the math yourself to calculate the possible gain our land has made in 10 years.
    Congrats man!!

    Quote Originally Posted by rickschoppers
    It all boils down to if you are willing to part with the money knowing what you know now about your relationship with your significant other and if you are willing to take the risk.
    100% agreed.

  11. #11
    Thailand Expat Pragmatic's Avatar
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    Hick land is fetching 200,000 a Rai. Average earning per Rai is 3-4000 Baht per year. How long to get a return? Land buying as an investment is no longer a good thing. The Thais have overpriced it for a few years now and it just ain't selling.

  12. #12
    Thailand Expat Pragmatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hick
    You've nailed it Pragmatic. Nailed it to a cross!
    Welcome to the forum Hick. Chin up and keep posting.

  13. #13
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    OP, Thais call any land with paper, charnote, so unless you can post a photo of the title deed, any advice is guess work.
    Get your wife to go to the land office for a valuation for tax purposes, many charnotes that were issued under the nation land survey program can not have an ownership change for 10 year.

  14. #14
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    ^^ Yes, to be honest....if it had Chanote and if he really wanted to (basically dump it) sell it for such a low price, I was hoping to buy and flip, but hey....

    In the end, she called him direct and he spoke plainly and clearly about the land papers (if you can still call them that) and she relayed that I'm not interested.

    No harm, no foul.

    Thanks for offering to take a look at the Chanote in question. That was mightily generous of you.



    Thanks James, duly noted and ....next time.

  15. #15
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    No Charnote = No Can Do. Simple.

  16. #16
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    Those ding dongs drove 60 kms roundtrip to view the land this morning and send pics to us BEFORE sorting out what paper/papers it has...5555

    Her father is no dunce...he's got his own land and works his ass off....but her mom can be a lil'....on the flakey side.

    farking hail TOT / LOS all that shit.

  17. #17
    Thailand Expat Pragmatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hick
    It is a 1/2 Nor Sor 3 and a 1/2 some other paper(??) I'm very fkin' confused. haha There are 7 names on this paper at the moment.
    I don't really see how 7 names are on the land paper. May be family members of the original deceased owner?

    Nor Sor Saam (3)

    The N.S.3 is a title deed which shows a person's right to possess a certain plot of land, but the land borders must be confirmed with neighboring plots. There are no so called parcel points or numbered concrete posts which are hammered into the ground to mark the boundaries of the land. The name showing on the title is the person who has the right to the land and has the legal right to possess the land and use the benefit of the land as an owner (it is not actual full ownership). This right will be recognized by the law and can be used as evidence in any dispute with an ordinary person or the government. It is possible to register a sale or lease and apply and obtain approval to build on this land if building complies with relevant building regulations, zoning and or other laws (e.g. environmental protection). The owner may burden the land (mortgage, lease, etc.) and register this with the Land Department. The land may be sold subject to a 30-day public notice period.
    A problem with the Nor Sor Saam title (as opposed to a Chanote or Nor Sor Saam Gor title) is that it is not true land ownership or confirmed right of possession but a right of possession over a land area without an accurate surveyed boundary which often lead to boundary disputes when transferring/selling or upgrading such land during the notice 30-day period and possible hostile possession over such land under the Civil and Commercial Code (book 4) - i.e. claims over the land by someone else not registered as the person who has the registered rights to the land.

  18. #18
    Thailand Expat
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatic
    May be family members of the original deceased owner?
    Correct again, Pragmatic.

    They are all direct family members and the two plots on either side of said plot are also owned by the same mix of family members.

    Glad I had been reading here and consulted with you guys. Seems like he wanted to sell outside the family on "trust." Sure, go ahead and do anything with it, but I'll hold the papers....

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by hick View Post
    Ok guys, thanks for your quick replies.

    As it (JUST) turned out - there is no Chanote.
    Her mother understood wrong....which is....believable and quite predictable.

    It is a 1/2 Nor Sor 3 and a 1/2 some other paper(??) I'm very fkin' confused. haha
    There are 7 names on this paper at the moment.

    They claim that a new document would not be generated, but rather her name would be added....

    Maybe all of that means something to you guys...maybe not(?)

    I just killed the idea. I'm out.

    Thanks again.



    I do enjoy all of your posts on these issues and will just keep on reading.



    ...........

  20. #20
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    Prag is smarter than most people give him credit for.

  21. #21
    Mex
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    I hope you bought it already..

  22. #22
    Mex
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    Oops.

    Sorry..new here...I only saw your original post...

    The guys have already advised you correctly.

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