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  1. #201
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    My missus taps 580 trees, 8-9 years old, 1/3rd diameter in 2 hours 15 minutes. Her brother and his wife as a team tap 1,890 big 9 year old trees in 5-6 hours, and they are good, but on the limit. Also once finished, 1,890 trees will need their formic acid adding to coagulate, taking another 3 hours for two people. It takes me 2 hours to formic the 580 trees my missus cuts... but then i'm a felang. Sheet is different again.

  2. #202
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    Off rubber topic...just planted another couple of sprouting coconuts from SIL's farm......got to thinking about Jim C..spent a lot of time on TLC on many methinks?

    How are yours doing mate....hope mortality rate minimal?

    Just put ours in depression in well drained location.....planted additional couple about two months ago..both died...ants and rot methinks?

    Have about a dozen 5 metres plus tall...maybe someone can cut coconuts to make curry/soup at temple at my wake..lol

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by crepitas View Post
    Off rubber topic...just planted another couple of sprouting coconuts from SIL's farm......got to thinking about Jim C..spent a lot of time on TLC on many methinks?

    How are yours doing mate....hope mortality rate minimal?

    Just put ours in depression in well drained location.....planted additional couple about two months ago..both died...ants and rot methinks?

    Have about a dozen 5 metres plus tall...maybe someone can cut coconuts to make curry/soup at temple at my wake..lol
    Not as easy to grow as I thought, only planted nuts that had sprouted, watered by hand, around 300 trees. Half never grow roots and died.
    Kept me fit thought, unlike now that the rain is here, just sit on the computer drinking beer. Jim

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by crepitas View Post
    Not wishing to gainsay our resident guru Jim but suspect that a factory with 20,000+ baht a day strikes me as a poor business model if one considers the the fixed and variable costs.
    Employee costs with maybe 15-20 employees at maybe 200bt a day plus the bosses(s) at maybe 20 k a month, plant maintenance, utilities/diesel/propane maybe some taxes..would reduce to maybe 10-15k per day....?
    Think I would be a middle man or open a 7 or two ....

    Think if I had my druthers would/should have bought a small farm/land and a couple of 10 wheels..
    Mis understanding, not a factory, just a middle man buyer.
    He phones a factory to get a next day delivery price, he then sets his buy price and phones his collectors, not employees, but sub contractors with a pick up truck.
    They set their price, say a Baht less than the buyer, drive round buying. Fill the truck, 1,000 kilos say and deliver to the buyer. !,000 Baht a trip, get in a few trips in a day, minus fuel, truck cost etc you can make a bit of money.
    Main buyer trucks the rubber to the factory, selling for say 2 Baht more than he paid, deduct costs, fuel, truck, driver. If he trucks 20,000 kilos knock of 1 Baht costs, he makes 20,000 Baht a trip.
    Sounds easy, but it's very competitive, buyers go broke all the time, as I did when we were buying, but in our case it was the GFC not the competition.


    On the number of tappers and how many trees, you want as many tappers with the least number of trees that you can get. It's all about the money you get and you get more with more tappers.
    If a tapper has too many trees, he must start at a fixed time and will finish in the early morning. Sun comes up our a breeze starts to blow and the rubber stops flowing.
    Fewer trees means he can tap when the conditions are best, too many and he has to tap by the clock and you get less out put.
    Good year tire plantations I believe run one tapper to 600 trees.
    You have to remember that if the tapper is putting in long hours he will be too exhusted to make sheet or maintain the plantation in the day time. Jim

  5. #205
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    Jim,
    On the number of tappers and how many trees, you want as many tappers with the least number of trees that you can get. It's all about the money you get and you get more with more tappers.
    If a tapper has too many trees, he must start at a fixed time and will finish in the early morning. Sun comes up our a breeze starts to blow and the rubber stops flowing.
    Fewer trees means he can tap when the conditions are best, too many and he has to tap by the clock and you get less out put.
    Good year tire plantations I believe run one tapper to 600 trees.
    You have to remember that if the tapper is putting in long hours he will be too exhusted to make sheet or maintain the plantation in the day time. Jim
    i spoke to one guy he said he can taps one thousand trees in one night. i think he full of shit, if he do that fast, he will destroy trees. but other guy i spoke to him, he owner of plantation, said he give 18 rais per family (over 1300 trees)to taps no more than that. that mean almost 700 trees in one night. but any way thanks all guys and Jim ..

    matt..
    Last edited by rubberdiesel; 11-07-2013 at 06:04 AM.

  6. #206
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    Wife taps approx 700 in about 4 hours a lot more if have to empty/change cups of water ,hard rubber or move spouts /wires...tells me harder/longer cutting if been a few days without cutting as bark harder.

    Rest our trees approx 3000 are cut by neighboring farmer couple..not sure how long but finish a long time before the wife...lol

    re coconuts Jim...yeah don't know why some grow and others just rot......we chuck the nuts from SIL in a pile outside for use later....some that don't get eaten sprout and grow,,others zip!
    Just like all seeds I guess..something to do with fertilization maybe.

    With you on the beer and stare into space...pissing down most days .even the dogs are bored methinks...not that it stops the f..kers spreading muddy paw prints all over the tiles I have just fricking mopped.....lol

  7. #207
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    I am in Sisaket and am looking to buy about 1,000 of the RRIN3001 clone. Can't seem to find them at any of our local sellers, anyone know where I can find them? We are in Sisaket but I am willing to travel or pay for delivery. Likely won't need them until about a year from now but thought I should start searching now.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamescollister View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by crepitas View Post
    Not wishing to gainsay our resident guru Jim but suspect that a factory with 20,000+ baht a day strikes me as a poor business model if one considers the the fixed and variable costs.
    Employee costs with maybe 15-20 employees at maybe 200bt a day plus the bosses(s) at maybe 20 k a month, plant maintenance, utilities/diesel/propane maybe some taxes..would reduce to maybe 10-15k per day....?
    Think I would be a middle man or open a 7 or two ....

    Think if I had my druthers would/should have bought a small farm/land and a couple of 10 wheels..
    Mis understanding, not a factory, just a middle man buyer.
    He phones a factory to get a next day delivery price, he then sets his buy price and phones his collectors, not employees, but sub contractors with a pick up truck.
    They set their price, say a Baht less than the buyer, drive round buying. Fill the truck, 1,000 kilos say and deliver to the buyer. !,000 Baht a trip, get in a few trips in a day, minus fuel, truck cost etc you can make a bit of money.
    Main buyer trucks the rubber to the factory, selling for say 2 Baht more than he paid, deduct costs, fuel, truck, driver. If he trucks 20,000 kilos knock of 1 Baht costs, he makes 20,000 Baht a trip.
    Sounds easy, but it's very competitive, buyers go broke all the time, as I did when we were buying, but in our case it was the GFC not the competition.
    Jim
    The depots down here give the regular sellers diesel money, about 200 baht a load.
    Regards, Steve

  9. #209
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    Jim,
    whilst i agree with you about "ideal" number of tappers per trees (Nong Khai School of Rubber reckons 700 per tapper), i would personally prefer to keep my existing tappers and families happy letting them cut well, and as many as physically possible. rather than changing tappers and families constantly, i want the same lot tapping year in, year out, so i don't have employment, hence headache issues. With the current poor price the way it is, 1200 trees cut by a husband/wife team on a 40% split is not that great money for them, i know of several teams here who cut on larger plantations for owners, who can get better money in factories, or if they are semi-skilled, ie plasterers, floor tilers in the construction industry, and have said; 33-34 baht per kg and they are off - not worth it for them. Different kettle of fish for a Thai couple who cut their own 1000 trees on 15 rai or so, the money is all theirs.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by thaiguzzi View Post
    Jim,
    whilst i agree with you about "ideal" number of tappers per trees (Nong Khai School of Rubber reckons 700 per tapper), i would personally prefer to keep my existing tappers and families happy letting them cut well, and as many as physically possible. rather than changing tappers and families constantly, i want the same lot tapping year in, year out, so i don't have employment, hence headache issues. With the current poor price the way it is, 1200 trees cut by a husband/wife team on a 40% split is not that great money for them, i know of several teams here who cut on larger plantations for owners, who can get better money in factories, or if they are semi-skilled, ie plasterers, floor tilers in the construction industry, and have said; 33-34 baht per kg and they are off - not worth it for them. Different kettle of fish for a Thai couple who cut their own 1000 trees on 15 rai or so, the money is all theirs.
    It's a hard line to know how much to keep tappers before they leave.
    My problem is these people don't want to work full time, they are mountain folk and have never got into a working routine. It makes little difference what I pay or how many trees they get, once they have cash, time for the hammock.
    People in my village won't work for me now, it was ok when I was the farang that was coming and going to OZ, but now I am full time village resident, they can't be seen as lowering themselves in the eyes of the village.
    Tried bring up tappers from the south, they won't stay as if your not local your not welcome out here.
    Have 6 couples at the moment who are tappers, but when we go to sheet they have to get help from their families. Tried hiring factory workers [ weekly wages ] people wanted 1,000 Baht a day. Even tried to hire a guy to simply drive the pick up around the plantations to collect the latex, 2 hours work at most. Best offer 500 Baht a day, they just won't and don't need to work full time.
    Never found an answer to the problem, it may change over time as the wealth divide between the rubber owners and the locals grows, but there is no keeping up with the Jones in general. Jim

  11. #211
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    This is my next door neighbors house, wife 3 kids.
    He worked for me once years ago, to buy a new motorbike, his only aspiration in life. He has not done a days work except for the family rice field since that then.


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    when you split 40% to husband and wife team before or after expense. did you have place for them to stay?. thanks...

    matt.

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    Jim, when i saw your neighbor house "man" i lost word. you are very brave farang man, living this kind neighborhood. i have 1 question to ask you Jim, in back of your mind, do you ever think something bad going happen to you. because they don't like outsider, specially you are rich than them.

    Matt.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamescollister View Post
    This is my next door neighbors house, wife 3 kids.
    He worked for me once years ago, to buy a new motorbike, his only aspiration in life. He has not done a days work except for the family rice field since that then.




    Sometimes think it is our somewhat colon mentality ie why don't these people want to be like us ...work and get more stuff. ( and to our benefit of course).
    The native peoples of the Caribbean and most colonies were apparently quite happy with their subsistence lifestyles before the likes of Columbus turned up and worked 'em to death and eventual extinction.....

    Our problem. not theirs?
    "farang tink too much"

    Have no solutions...just saying...

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by crepitas View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jamescollister View Post
    This is my next door neighbors house, wife 3 kids.
    He worked for me once years ago, to buy a new motorbike, his only aspiration in life. He has not done a days work except for the family rice field since that then.




    Sometimes think it is our somewhat colon mentality ie why don't these people want to be like us ...work and get more stuff. ( and to our benefit of course).
    The native peoples of the Caribbean and most colonies were apparently quite happy with their subsistence lifestyles before the likes of Columbus turned up and worked 'em to death and eventual extinction.....

    Our problem. not theirs?
    "farang tink too much"

    Have no solutions...just saying...
    That's why I came here in the first place, dog poor , but happy content people with time to play with their kids, fish, hunt and sleep. A thing I didn't have in the west, but I need the rubber money to live, it's all I get. Jim

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by rubberdiesel View Post
    Jim, when i saw your neighbor house "man" i lost word. you are very brave farang man, living this kind neighborhood. i have 1 question to ask you Jim, in back of your mind, do you ever think something bad going happen to you. because they don't like outsider, specially you are rich than them.

    Matt.
    I'm not richer than some, those with rubber have money and earn the same or more as they tap themselves. Not the poorest, but not the richest.

    Have no fear of bad things happening in the area, I'm not really an outsider anymore, have kids, it's their village and I'm their dad. I may be a farang, but I'm the village farang, not a visiting farang.

    Don't need to be Rambo out here, it's a lot safer than most think, don't even have a front door. Jim

  17. #217
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    Plenty of houses up here like that one too Jim. However, less and less over the years. Loads like that when i first moved up here 10 years ago, now lots of nice concrete bungalows. I'm fortunate, that my current team DO want money, and DO want to get on in life, daughters in good schools etc. Layabouts who only think for today and maybe tomorrow are no good to us as "reliable" tappers. My missus is looking good and hard already for the next suitable husband/wife team, with kids, mid twenties to late thirties, for the next area to be tapped in 2015 !.
    Mike.

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by rubberdiesel View Post
    when you split 40% to husband and wife team before or after expense. did you have place for them to stay?. thanks...

    matt.
    Sure, cost me about 20k in materials, they built it themselves. Put a toilet/washroom in there, last year too, no electric available yet, so they charge a car battery up at my place every couple of days. When electric becomes available, i'll pay to put that in too, no probs. However for their 40% cut, they strim, and cut grass, put the fertiliser in, and basically take care of that plantation. All expenses, inc. petrol, diesel, fertiliser, formic acid is down to me.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamescollister View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rubberdiesel View Post
    Jim, when i saw your neighbor house "man" i lost word. you are very brave farang man, living this kind neighborhood. i have 1 question to ask you Jim, in back of your mind, do you ever think something bad going happen to you. because they don't like outsider, specially you are rich than them.

    Matt.
    I'm not richer than some, those with rubber have money and earn the same or more as they tap themselves. Not the poorest, but not the richest.

    Have no fear of bad things happening in the area, I'm not really an outsider anymore, have kids, it's their village and I'm their dad. I may be a farang, but I'm the village farang, not a visiting farang.

    Don't need to be Rambo out here, it's a lot safer than most think, don't even have a front door. Jim
    I'm the village drunk... but the storeman where I buy my booze would kill anyone that threatened me. Would be bad for his business.
    BTW Jim... I'm formulating a plan to get "back" into RSS.
    What are the financials like on it?
    Falling asleep and waking up is not the same as passing out and coming to.

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    I'm still on cup at the moment, weather and workers are the problem, hope to be on sheet by the end of the month.
    Even at these crap prices you make 30 Baht or there about more per kilo for RSS. Take out all the costs and I am, say 10 Baht a kilo up, not great, but when you do volume every Baht counts.

    Shows how far the world has fallen since the GFC, 2008 we made 30 Baht profit from other peoples rubber, now can't even buy others rubber, no profit and probable loss.

    On a brighter note had a visitor who is interested in getting into the rubber game. He has the cash and I have the factory and license, so may be getting into crepe rubber. Jim

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    Sold USS today. The buyer won't hang on to it long, she says prices are on the way down

  22. #222
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    This is our 3rd season tapping. Looks like we will break our record of least amount of taps per fortnight, tomorrow when we sell - 4 !!!!! FFS.

  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamescollister View Post
    I'm still on cup at the moment, weather and workers are the problem, hope to be on sheet by the end of the month.
    Even at these crap prices you make 30 Baht or there about more per kilo for RSS. Take out all the costs and I am, say 10 Baht a kilo up, not great, but when you do volume every Baht counts.

    Shows how far the world has fallen since the GFC, 2008 we made 30 Baht profit from other peoples rubber, now can't even buy others rubber, no profit and probable loss.

    On a brighter note had a visitor who is interested in getting into the rubber game. He has the cash and I have the factory and license, so may be getting into crepe rubber. Jim
    I'll have to do the math.
    Cheers.

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    "costs?"
    I,ve seen it done on a number of occations.
    Could you list them for me.
    Costs of 20 baht a kilo seem high.

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by the dogcatcher View Post
    "costs?"
    I,ve seen it done on a number of occations.
    Could you list them for me.
    Costs of 20 baht a kilo seem high.
    Workers get 40 or 50 % there goes 12 Baht to start. Fuel to transport, if machines are not on site, electricity, acid and all the little things add up.

    10 Baht is 10 Baht and every 5 kilos is a bottle of beer. Jim

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