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  1. #51
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    why? rice prices are on the up and should give a good return

    the biggest problem, in some areas, is finding the workers to do the planting

  2. #52
    Thailand Expat draco888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy View Post
    why? rice prices are on the up and should give a good return

    the biggest problem, in some areas, is finding the workers to do the planting
    I thought the price of rice in Thailand was set (artificially high) by the government not Market determined?

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by draco888 View Post
    I thought the price of rice in Thailand was set (artificially high) by the government not Market determined?
    It currently is but the policy is unsustainable as Thai exporters are losing out big time.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by draco888 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy View Post
    why? rice prices are on the up and should give a good return

    the biggest problem, in some areas, is finding the workers to do the planting
    I thought the price of rice in Thailand was set (artificially high) by the government not Market determined?

    most farmers sell their rice to middlemen, who try to screw them as much as possible

  5. #55
    Thailand Expat draco888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by draco888 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy View Post
    why? rice prices are on the up and should give a good return

    the biggest problem, in some areas, is finding the workers to do the planting
    I thought the price of rice in Thailand was set (artificially high) by the government not Market determined?

    most farmers sell their rice to middlemen, who try to screw them as much as possible
    Ah I see, and the middlemen sell to govt at the set price?

  6. #56
    Thailand Expat draco888's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=buriramboy;2217684][quote=jamescollister;2217625]
    Quote Originally Posted by buriramboy View Post
    Can't even remember when they were planted, 2007 land at the time, just got it in my daughters name and got the chanote so the same wouldn't happen again and they could happily carry on growing their rice.

    Think was about 2005/6 was up there talking to the sister/brother in law about how much money they make from growing rice which was basically fok all, so decided to turn it into a rubber plantation, i think including paying the bank off, digging a 3m x 4m lake, building a 10m x 10m 'hut', having electricity run out to the land/hut, buying all the trees (3500), fertiliser etc. don't even think i have dropped 800k baht total over the last 10 years, so even if it all goes pear shaped won't have lost anything and can always sell the land for many multiples what

    You got any idea of roughly how much cash they should generate???
    36 rai of rice paddy was only 250k back in 2002? Sounds like you made a good investment.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by draco888 View Post
    36 rai of rice paddy was only 250k back in 2002? Sounds like you made a good investment.
    No the 250k was the amount of money someone had borrowed from the bank with the land as security and had no way of paying back and were about to lose the land, so i paid it off on the understanding that the land would be put in my daughters name and they could keep happily growing their rice. But yes 10 years on hopefully it will turn into a good investment, although that was never the intention all those years ago!!!
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  8. #58
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    For those who are interested in prices this link is to the TRA Thai Rubber Association.

    http://www.thainr.com/en/index.php?detail=pr-local

    It gives current and historical prices for the processed sheet and cup lump.
    If you go back over recent months and years years you can follow the price instability.
    It seems to be political rather than seasonal.
    When oil prices are high then synthetic rubber costs more and natural rubber prices benefit. While there are some products for which natural rubber is better suited, in general terms there will be a direct correlation between oil and natural rubber prices.
    Please note these TRA prices are commercial prices. The value at production level is likely to be lower.
    Remember 90% of rubber in Thailand is grown at subsistence levels. Around 100 Rai or less per farm.
    The government recently declined the opportunity to put rubber prices on the same system as rice.
    Heart of Gold and a Knob of butter.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by chassamui View Post
    For those who are interested in prices this link is to the TRA Thai Rubber Association.

    ::: THE THAI RUBBER ASSOCIATION

    It gives current and historical prices for the processed sheet and cup lump.
    If you go back over recent months and years years you can follow the price instability.
    It seems to be political rather than seasonal.
    When oil prices are high then synthetic rubber costs more and natural rubber prices benefit. While there are some products for which natural rubber is better suited, in general terms there will be a direct correlation between oil and natural rubber prices.
    Please note these TRA prices are commercial prices. The value at production level is likely to be lower.
    Remember 90% of rubber in Thailand is grown at subsistence levels. Around 100 Rai or less per farm.
    The government recently declined the opportunity to put rubber prices on the same system as rice.
    True that rubber prices follow oill prices, Seasonal, some what yes, rubber is bought for the next years production, Anyone with 100 rai is in the top 3% of rubber producers.
    As for the sites figures, don't know where they get them from. Far as I know I am the only licensed rubber processor in the Ubon province. It is not a rubber area, except along the mountains and the Mekong river area and I don't get those prices. Jim

  10. #60
    Member IsaanAussie's Avatar
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    Well the trees may well be asleep but the rubber magnate is on the march. I am looking forward to this topic steppings up to Rubber 201.

  11. #61
    Thailand Expat poorfalang's Avatar
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    Hi Jim
    Thanks for bringing that 101 into TD, i have read it over at the dark site, it has become usefull info to me even i only have 10 rai of that condom making stuff.
    we all know that set up cost is very hard to write down, land price varies so much,
    where i am (not that far from khon kaen it about 150.000 a rai,
    all because everyone has started doing sugar cane, big demand decent profit.
    many rais near my house for years were only stupid uncared eucalypti bush,
    last year some the owner did a deal with someone in the village whom already have sugar cane and a bit of cash, they got a earth mover to dig the root out, tractor to plough the land an it is now a very nice sugar cane field,
    same happening all over.
    Sorry about me horrible speling

  12. #62
    Thailand Expat superman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poorfalang
    happening all over.
    I forecast a glut in the future market, and many fingers will get burnt. It's the Thai way. Monkey see, monkey do.

  13. #63
    Thailand Expat poorfalang's Avatar
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    ^i don't think so, actually i think that sugar cane and casava will overtake rice here in Thailand in the near future, farmers want more money for their product,
    sugar cane has been going up year by years for the last 10 years if anything it may stop increasing,
    with rice, you are getting about 5-7 thousand baht per rai.
    badly taken care of sugar cane is giving farmers 13.000 per rai, when will rice beat that?
    and still there is a lot to improve in cane.
    look at this, in pakistan and south america farmers are taking 20 something tons per rai while in issan farmers are still using caveman methods of planting when they learn how to get 25 ton out of one rai, and get paid 1150 bath per ton, what will they do?
    its those stupid lazy issan farmer whom have 60 rai of land but were to lazy to get the rice down every year and just wanted to drink lao and eat papaya salad that will be better off now,
    i see and hear it with my eyes and ears respectively lol
    rice will be in demand very soon and the price will go up, but the cane farmer does not have to worry about enough water and keeping an eye on the water level daily,
    while cane is less work less maintenance and more money.
    i try it, without buying land for the purpose,
    i got 3 rai of cane planted, cost 19.000 and i did the expensive way
    i sold the product for 40.000 7 months later.
    just did another 10 rai to sell in a few months.
    double your investment in less than a year is not a bad business,
    if i could afford i would buy land right now and fill it with cane,
    still have another 10 rai with rubber that is making me think
    Last edited by poorfalang; 04-03-2013 at 02:14 PM.

  14. #64
    Member Mosha's Avatar
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    Isn't sugar the one thing we consume too much of, and sugar cane is the most efficient bio-fuel source?

  15. #65
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    So 23 Rai in total then?

  16. #66
    Thailand Expat superman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poorfalang
    farmers want more money for their product, sugar cane has been going up year by years for the last 10 years if anything it may stop increasing, with rice, you are getting about 5-7 thousand baht per rai. badly taken care of sugar cane is giving farmers 13.000 per rai, when will rice beat that?
    Big problem as I don't believe you can plant sugar cane on rice fields. That's why they usually only plant rice there. Where I live, between rice planting and harvest, they are trying other crops such as melon and squashes. Sugar cane no.

  17. #67
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    Sugar and cassava will be needed more and more in the future, it's not the food processors that set the price.
    Read somewhere that 90% of China's cassava use is for ethanol [fuel] same for sugar. Oil prices, just like rubber will set the prices.
    Think if you are in now, the future looks bright, can say for certain I could not afford to started up rubber now, would be well outside my means.
    You just have to look at the number of new cars in rural Issan to see that there is money being made.
    Things will go up and down, whole world is in bad shape, but the trend will be up over time. Jim

  18. #68
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    On Mr sugar cains figures I think rubber is still a better bet.
    Small matter also of 20 quid a tree when you final have to cut them down.
    Even if you have to wait 7 years for the next lot.

  19. #69
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    First off, I just want to say welcome to Jim, maybe you will tell me one day what happened between you and TV. Lover's tiff??

    Second, I know this thread is about rubber, but it seems to have gone a little off course into suger cane, so as the missus has some sugar cane, cassava, rice but no rubber I will add my little bit.

    A couple of years back she and her cousin leased 8 rai of sugar cane that was almost ready to cut, the guy wanted some cash. Anyway first harvest they cleared B70,000 so that almost paid back their intial investment. Second year when they had to pay for fertilser, weeding, cutting, loading and transport to the mill they only netted B20,000 so after 2 harvests they have still not totally repaid the initial capital outlay. She keeps good data regarding the costs as her and the cousin share the costs and the "profit". It turns out that almost 50% of the costs were for loading and transport to the mill. The cost of food and drinks for the workers was almost as much as her profit, so I told her next time do everything on contract rate and no drinks or food let them get their own and she would almost double the profit. That wasn't recieved very graciously.

    Now for the problems, she decided to cut the cane the second time and before it could be laoded, it pissed down so they couldn't get on the paddock for 5 days to cart it and as a consequence it lost a lot of its moisture, yield was down 15% compared to the first harvest (which is usually the worst). At the other farm, this one owned by her, she has just had a fire go through that burn most of the cane ,so she had to cut what was there and hopefully it will grow back for next year. As for not worrying about water (as per rice) the issue is the cane needs water to grow a good yield. so if there is a dry spell then your yield may drop below the norm of about 13t per rai.

    As for cassava it has been the one shining light so far as she has made a profit each planting, still trying to convince her that a 18 month harvest would be better.
    Rice, well she made some money last harvest, she got the 15b/kg because she spent some money and bought good seed, the year before she couldn't sell the rice to the govt mill as they said it contained too much red grain. The only issue here is, that where she grows the rice she probably couldn't grow anything else.

    So be it sugar cane or cassava or rice or even rubber it ain't gonna be easy.

  20. #70
    Thailand Expat superman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ootai
    So be it sugar cane or cassava or rice or even rubber it ain't gonna be easy.
    Nothing in Thailand ever seems to be easy from my viewpoint.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by ootai View Post
    First off, I just want to say welcome to Jim, maybe you will tell me one day what happened between you and TV. Lover's tiff??

    Second, I know this thread is about rubber, but it seems to have gone a little off course into suger cane, so as the missus has some sugar cane, cassava, rice but no rubber I will add my little bit.

    A couple of years back she and her cousin leased 8 rai of sugar cane that was almost ready to cut, the guy wanted some cash. Anyway first harvest they cleared B70,000 so that almost paid back their intial investment. Second year when they had to pay for fertilser, weeding, cutting, loading and transport to the mill they only netted B20,000 so after 2 harvests they have still not totally repaid the initial capital outlay. She keeps good data regarding the costs as her and the cousin share the costs and the "profit". It turns out that almost 50% of the costs were for loading and transport to the mill. The cost of food and drinks for the workers was almost as much as her profit, so I told her next time do everything on contract rate and no drinks or food let them get their own and she would almost double the profit. That wasn't recieved very graciously.

    Now for the problems, she decided to cut the cane the second time and before it could be laoded, it pissed down so they couldn't get on the paddock for 5 days to cart it and as a consequence it lost a lot of its moisture, yield was down 15% compared to the first harvest (which is usually the worst). At the other farm, this one owned by her, she has just had a fire go through that burn most of the cane ,so she had to cut what was there and hopefully it will grow back for next year. As for not worrying about water (as per rice) the issue is the cane needs water to grow a good yield. so if there is a dry spell then your yield may drop below the norm of about 13t per rai.

    As for cassava it has been the one shining light so far as she has made a profit each planting, still trying to convince her that a 18 month harvest would be better.
    Rice, well she made some money last harvest, she got the 15b/kg because she spent some money and bought good seed, the year before she couldn't sell the rice to the govt mill as they said it contained too much red grain. The only issue here is, that where she grows the rice she probably couldn't grow anything else.

    So be it sugar cane or cassava or rice or even rubber it ain't gonna be easy.
    Farming is never easy in this world, trying to compete with the big corporate agriculture companies is hard, The only advantage you have here over than the west is the tax structure which allows small players.
    Best practice has not found it's way into most small farms, try starting a co op to cut transport cost, no chance.

    As to my banning from TV, they didn't have to ban me as I had already posted that I would never be visiting their site again. They were deleting factual posts to protect one of their sponsors. They deleted other posts not only mine, they even deleted where I said I would no longer be visiting their site.

    If you are interested in the full story PM me, I will fill in the blanks.

    On a happy note, had our first downpour last night, not enough to do much good, but cooled the place down. Rubber trees have their leaves back, few more good rains and we will tapping again T/G as I will run out of beer money in 3 or 4 weeks. Jim

  22. #72
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    better make sure the beer money is taken care of, any way Jim thanks I have enjoyed read what you write.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by draco888 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by draco888 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy View Post
    why? rice prices are on the up and should give a good return

    the biggest problem, in some areas, is finding the workers to do the planting
    I thought the price of rice in Thailand was set (artificially high) by the government not Market determined?

    most farmers sell their rice to middlemen, who try to screw them as much as possible
    Ah I see, and the middlemen sell to govt at the set price?
    You're not familiar with the Rice Mafia?

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratchaburi View Post
    better make sure the beer money is taken care of, any way Jim thanks I have enjoyed read what you write.
    Thanks for that and hope what I post is is worth reading, Jim

  25. #75
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    good on yu mate

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