HIV Transmission in Thai Hospitals

[forreachingme]

Very sad story ! but thank you for sharing !

This can help us being more carefull round here !!

What about those new HIV test strips, cheap and easy to use at home, anybody seen it yet ?

[Homer]

Just logged back in today. I am nearly in tears. You are a brave lad. I would be shouting and screaming and making no sense at this stage. again my sympathies, and my best to you and your son for the future

[Hootad Binky]

Originally Posted by Lily

He looks like his mum.

That is nice for you and he.

Yes, he has her eyes!

I guess some might find my posting this a bit shocking but Sopine would have wanted people to see how she suffered, because the worst thing is to die for nothing.

Originally Posted by Homer

Just logged back in today. I am nearly in tears. You are a brave lad. I would be shouting and screaming and making no sense at this stage. again my sympathies, and my best to you and your son for the future

I'm starting to feel better now, my feet are starting to touch the ground again. the strongest lingering feeling was one of shock, for both Sopine and I, because we were like "What the hell happened?" And after that, sadness of course.

Well, today my school is having a St. Patrick's Day party, and I'll be singing this, which I heard Sinead O'Connor singing on the radio last week and then found it on the internet:

She Moved Through the Fair

My young love said to me, "My mother won't mind
And my father won't slight you for your lack of kind."
And she stepped away from me and this she did say
It will not be long, love, till our wedding day."

As she stepped away from me and she moved through the fair
And fondly I watched her move here and move there
And then she turned homeward with one star awake
Like the swan in the evening moves over the lake.

The people were saying, no two e'er were wed
But one had a sorrow that never was said
And I smiled as she passed with her goods and her gear
And that was the last that I saw of my dear.

Last night she came to me, my dead love came in
So softly she came that her feet made no din
As she laid her hand on me and this she did say:
It will not be long, love, 'til our wedding day.

YouTube - Jane Holohan "She moved through the fair" by Padraic Colum

This is a bit haunting and reminds me of one night Michael and I were playing with cars/books etc. when Michael suddenly jumped off the couch and began pointing to the door. He kept saying: "Mommy coming! Mommy coming!" and pointing to the back door. I hadn't heard him say either word before, and certainly not in that order. I followed him to our back entrance and Michael kept pointing and saying the same thing.
So I opened the back door and he ran into the rear foyer and kept on pointing and saying the same thing, now at the outside back door. I was feeling a little apprehensive at this point, and slowly opened the back door.

It was night. Michael then exclaimed "Mommy!" and pointed right in front of him into the night, as if she were right there. I looked around and into the back yard but didn't see anything. I said a few words as if Sopine were really there, that we're doing ok. and are you there? and that we miss her, etc. Then Michael got scared and ran back inside. I followed him in and he was fine, smiling, ready to play again.

A few days later I was at the video store with Michael to rent some movies like we always do. I had 4 films but could get another one free so standing near the front counter I said to Michael, "you pick one out." He turned around in his chair and grabbed a movie out of the Canadian section, in this case a French-Canadian film called "Heart of Stone."

So anyway I finished watching this movie. It was a tragic love story in which the heroine dies at the end with her true love at her side, much as Sopine did with me in the hospital. It was pretty hard to watch and all the old real feelings of that time came back to me. The following scene showed her funeral procession with a voice-over of words from her last letter to her beloved:

"You're here, too, so close, your presence is like rays of light in the darkness. I feel at peace. This time I shall be with you, at last."

My last test:



My son's: these are from 9 months ago, actually.



My wife's original HIV neg. test, done at the same hospital when we were pregnant:



My son and I were also very LUCKY and I don't forget that.

[Hootad Binky]

Something we inexplicably never had access to anyway:

E Canada Now - Breaking News » Thailand Excluded From New Drugs

Boston (eCanadaNow) - Protests are beginning to grow very quickly after news broke that new medicines would no longer be launched in Thailand to try and fight AIDS and other diseases.

The decision came after Thailand announced in January that they would purchase and produce generic versions of the HIV/AIDS drug Kaletra.
The AIDS Healthcare Foundation stated that “W are clearly saddened by this development.” “We’re beyond saddened, We’re horrified.”

The worry is that many people will begin to suffer from AIDS without new drugs such as a new form of Kaletra which does not need to be refrigerated.
[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/IMG]
Many other drug companies may be following this trend of not wanthing their drugs to be made into generic versions as well as Novartis is now beginning to challenge the patent system in India.

[dirtydog]

Actually Thai Hospitals are a nightmare, my girlfriend a couple of years ago damaged her lung by picking up the female Rottie, ie the lung got torn and filled up with fluid, so there we are in hospital in Sattahip and her having her lungs drained, then some new doctor had this great idea of draining her lungs real quick, within 12 hours her lungs collapsed(I think) they started giving her heart drugs ie under the tongue stuff, and the cnuts brought her back to life, so yes these cnuts nearly killed her, you really got to consider your health care here quite seriously.

[Alieusmaximus]

Best of luck to you HB. My heart goes out to you.

[egeefay]

Without hiring investigators to try and prove that your wife was given tainted blood its just your word against the hospital's. You could flame the hospital with a website but everyone will ask the same question: How can you prove it? Of there were some way you could get the records, show that others treated at the hospital also contacted aids from tainted blood, show that there was an effort to conceal information, interview the hospital staff etc.

I don't know much about how to detect for AIDS but If they did blood work on your wife before surgery and she was clean, did they do post op blood tests and would those test have dected AIDs if she got it during her hospital stay?

Then again...even if you could prove it, it's hard to sue a hospital in Thailand, I understand.

I've had good experiences at private Thai hospitals. I've also heard horror stories from friends and relatives. So it's always "let the buyer beware"

Then again I've had good and bad experiences in America too. Nothing worth suing over but enough to lead me to believe mistakes are made even in American hospitals.

Only a few hospitals in Thailand are certified by the Joint Commission International Accreditation. It's not a guarantee that mistakes don't get made but it does mean that they have been inspected but it does mean they meet western standards.
Not sure if the hospital where you took your wife was one of them

[bustak]

Originally Posted by mad_dog

Terrible story. Fortune favours the brave HB.

This is TRUE!

You have a beautiful boy! You are such a lucky man!

I can't imagine the pain you feel in regards to your lovely wife dying, but I think by you bringing up some awareness of the hospitals negligence could help negate this negative situation!

Good luck to you & your son, you 2 look like strong men!

[playon]

"Upwards of 45% of all blood donations in poor nations go unscreened for HIV, HCV or hepatitis B, they note. Such donations, the researchers say, are directly responsible for the infections of hundreds of thousands of transfusion recipients."

Yikes.

[Spin]

Thanks for sharing this, I hope you can find some peace in the future from this nightmare you endure.

[Agent_Smith]

My condolences to you and your family, Hootad. Your wife gave you a wonderful gift and I hope some day you may overcome your anger at this this terrible injustice and live life happily with your son, as I'm sure your wife wants.

If you truly believe in your heart of hearts that the hospital is at fault then I believe you should adverstise their negligence in any and all ways possible. Could save some others from your heartbreaking experience.

[Hootad Binky]

Originally Posted by egeefay

Without hiring investigators to try and prove that your wife was given tainted blood its just your word against the hospital's. You could flame the hospital with a website but everyone will ask the same question: How can you prove it? Of there were some way you could get the records, show that others treated at the hospital also contacted aids from tainted blood, show that there was an effort to conceal information, interview the hospital staff etc.

I don't know much about how to detect for AIDS but If they did blood work on your wife before surgery and she was clean, did they do post op blood tests and would those test have dected AIDs if she got it during her hospital stay?

Then again...even if you could prove it, it's hard to sue a hospital in Thailand, I understand.

I've had good experiences at private Thai hospitals. I've also heard horror stories from friends and relatives. So it's always "let the buyer beware"

Then again I've had good and bad experiences in America too. Nothing worth suing over but enough to lead me to believe mistakes are made even in American hospitals.

Only a few hospitals in Thailand are certified by the Joint Commission International Accreditation. It's not a guarantee that mistakes don't get made but it does mean that they have been inspected but it does mean they meet western standards.
Not sure if the hospital where you took your wife was one of them

I can prove my wife died of AIDS, I can prove neither my son nor I have the virus and I can also prove when my wife didn't have it. That's enough for now.

The best plan now is to simply make public what happened. Maybe if the word gets out, other people who may have been affected might contact me.

The fact that people have simply read this makes me feel better. I will eventually make a website like this:

Bumrungrad Hospital Death 2006

That ought to get their attention.

[bobbins]

Sorry for your loss. I would be careful with that bumrungradead thing, most of it turned out to be fibs. Not taht I am defending B'grad, they royally fucked my knee.

[Reg Young]

Condolences as well, HB. This is sadly not too surprising. The Thai medical industry is fatally flawed, in my opinion. I've personally witnessed incompetence on wide scale, and even had a relative of mine killed by Bangkok Hospital.

As I've said elsewhere, I wouldn't trust a local hospital with anything more serious than the work permit physical; it's nicely external.

Even if the physician's qualifications are solid (a local MD means less than nothing, and the foreign university hospitals where he served his fellowships generally don't like to mess with the system and humiliate their fellows), the support staff are still locally trained. They're careless, prone to mishandling samples, misreading vitals and test-results, and acting as vectors for infection. Oh, and blaming the patient if you get worse.

Anyone living in Thailand who has any serious ailment would be wise to seek treatment elsewhere.
- Reg

[The Gentleman Scamp]

Originally Posted by playon

[size=+1][color=Red]"Upwards of 45% of all blood donations in poor nations go unscreened for HIV, HCV or hepatitis B, they note. Such donations, the researchers say, are directly responsible for the infections of hundreds of thousands of transfusion recipients."

That is atrocious, it seems there are no limits to idiocy and laziness in the world and this is a surprise even by Thai standards.

Keep us informed HB, I would contact the media back home (Canada?) - make a big stink, tabloids, local TV, magazines, I believe your story is more than important enough to be televised.

[Hootad Binky]

Originally Posted by Reg Young

Condolences as well, HB. This is sadly not too surprising. The Thai medical industry is fatally flawed, in my opinion. I've personally witnessed incompetence on wide scale, and even had a relative of mine killed by Bangkok Hospital.

As I've said elsewhere, I wouldn't trust a local hospital with anything more serious than the work permit physical; it's nicely external.

Even if the physician's qualifications are solid (a local MD means less than nothing, and the foreign university hospitals where he served his fellowships generally don't like to mess with the system and humiliate their fellows), the support staff are still locally trained. They're careless, prone to mishandling samples, misreading vitals and test-results, and acting as vectors for infection. Oh, and blaming the patient if you get worse.

Anyone living in Thailand who has any serious ailment would be wise to seek treatment elsewhere.
- Reg

Great points.

What happened to my wife is just a symptom of an overburdened "30-baht" healthcare system where staff are less experienced, hospitals have more patients and there is less money around. Corners get cut.

What's also alarming is that the hospital we went to, Camillian, is actually a very nice and quite expensive private Catholic Hospital (think I'll send a link of this to the Vatican; they're used to being sued).

But Camillian gets its blood from the Thai Red Cross, just like everyone else.

[Hootad Binky]

Originally Posted by The Gentleman Scamp

That is atrocious, it seems there are no limits to idiocy and laziness in the world and this is a surprise even by Thai standards.

Keep us informed HB, I would contact the media back home (Canada?) - make a big stink, tabloids, local TV, magazines, I believe your story is more than important enough to be televised.

This is the first time I've posted all this information, and I'm really heartened by all the supportive remarks and comments. I sort of "dread this thread" but I'll just have to continue posting it into other forums.

I'm thinking Lonely Planet, ajarn (again!), any ideas?

[Hootad Binky]

"Every year 250,000 Canadians get sick from an infection while staying in hospitals. Many infections could be prevented, but not just one doctor or hospital is to blame. Using hidden cameras, Erica Johnson exposes medical staff that could be doing more to help and may be putting your life at risk."

8,000 will die from this.

Horrifying, recently televised documentary about lethal infections regularly transmitted in Canadian hospitals due to unsanitary conditions:

"Dirty Doctors"
CBC.ca - Marketplace

[Hootad Binky]

Possible blood-bourne infections in Canada (again), this is from last week!!!

Alberta hospital issues health alert over superbug, sterilization problems

Published: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 | 8:53 PM ET

Canadian Press: JIM MACDONALD

VEGREVILLE, Alta. (CP) - A rural Alberta hospital has been ordered to stop taking new patients due to the spread of a potent superbug and the discovery that hospital equipment wasn't being properly sterilized.

Seven patients in the 25-bed St. Joseph's General Hospital in Vegreville, east of Edmonton, contracted the antibiotic-resistant bacterial infection over a one-month period beginning in mid-January.

"These are minor infections, usually skin infections, if any symptoms at all," Dr. Karen Grimsrud, deputy provincial health officer, said Tuesday.
While most people who have been exposed to the infection don't get sick, it can trigger illness, especially when carriers go into hospital for medical care.

Health officials have not pinpointed why the rate of infection at the hospital was unusually high. But Grimsrud said the bug - methicillin-resistant staphylococcus aureus, or MRSA - is generally spread by health-care workers not washing their hands between patients.
Between 20 and 30 per cent of carriers go on to develop an MRSA-induced illness, ranging from skin or wound infections to abscesses to pneumonia.

"The facility will be closed to all new admissions to make sure that no further patients would be exposed," Grimsrud told a news conference Tuesday at the legislature in Edmonton.

An unrelated problem of improper sterilization of medical devices at the hospital was discovered by an infection control expert during a routine audit, she said.

There's only a "very low" possibility that patients who had surgeries or were treated in the emergency room might have been infected with blood-borne illnesses by improperly sterilized instruments, said Grimsrud.

But as a precaution, patients dating back to April 2003 are being sent a letter advising them to be tested for HIV and hepatitis B and C.

"This will be a fairly major undertaking," she said. "We don't have the number of patients because we have to determine what procedures are actually at risk."

Grimsrud confirmed that for one biopsy procedure alone - cystoscopy - 80 patients were being contacted.

The sterilization problem was first spotted in late January during a routine surgical audit. The health authority ordered a halt to sterilization procedures at the hospital Feb. 13.

But Grimsrud said when region's medical health officer went to the hospital last Friday, he noted the room was still in operation.

"There was no more surgery, no more scoping, no more dental procedures, but the room was still being used for sterilization of other hospital equipment."

Alberta's opposition parties said the delay is alarming.

"The original order was given on February 13th, what's going on?" said Liberal health critic Laurie Blakeman.

"They didn't have, what, the manpower, the willpower to be able to enforce any kind of order."

Health Minister Dave Hancock said no one who was treated at the hospital has so far been found to have been infected by the improperly sterilized equipment.

The sterilization problem was described as "fairly recent," so Hancock said health officials are just being prudent in alerting patients who were treated at the hospital as far back as 2003.

"If no occurrences are found, which we expect and we hope, then that might be the end of it," said the minister.

"If there was a circumstance, then you might have to go back further."

Grimsrud said the inadequate sterilization problem was mainly the result of lack of training for staff involved in the cleaning process.

"The inside of the scopes were not cleaned and so there's tissue and blood left from the previous patient," she said.

Hancock said Albertans deserve and expect more from their health-care system, so he's ordered an immediate review by the province's Health Quality Council.

"It's unacceptable to me, as I'm sure it is to most Albertans, that this situation could arise in our health system."

The hospital is in the middle of Premier Ed Stelmach's riding.

He said it's possible relatives or neighbours have received treatment with improperly sterilized medical equipment.

A shortage of staff, which has been a problem at hospitals across Alberta, shouldn't have been a factor in this case, he said.

"If there isn't enough people to sterilize the equipment, then you don't do the procedure."

A public health order was issued Friday requiring the hospital to halt all admissions and close the sterilization room, but the order was not made public until Tuesday.

Hancock downplayed the decision to wait four days before issuing a news release. He says the health order was posted Friday on the door of the hospital and provincial officials did not see an immediate need to issue a broader public alert.

"There was no ongoing risk at that stage to any member of the public," he said. "There was no additional risk between Friday and (Tuesday)."

Emergency and acute-care patients were being sent to nearby hospitals, and medical equipment requiring sterilization was also being sent to other hospitals.