Thread: How much is a fair bribe?

I just got out of a meeting with the Revenue Department to finish setting up my business. The guy came in and looked around my restaurant and proceeded to tell me things that need to be changed and added some more requirements to the constantly expanding list of documents I need. This is my 3rd meeting with them, each time I come up with the required documents they come up with some more. My interpreter informed me that this will go on until I pay a bribe. "How much then?" I ask. "I don't know, he'll tell us next week." I've been avoiding paying these guys off because I don't want to start a trend of this and that office coming here to get paid off. I'd rather do it all legit but it appears that this is impossible, they'll just make up requirements until I succumb to the payoff. Allegedly if I pay these guys off no one else will come in here to "inspect" etc. So my questions are; how much should I allow myself to be pillaged for? Has anyone else had to jump through these hoops and how did you fare in the end? Is there anyone running a business here that hasn't been extorted? Where does it end? Thanks for the feedback.

Amazing Thailand.

The thought of being bribed gets my blood boiling. I'd tell themn to get fcuked.

If you pay them, you're marked as a soft target and the pigs will be back at the trough next year (or next month). And -- if you pay them in lieu of a required document, they then know which document you don't have and can sting you for it later. Suggesting that you already paid a bribe isn't a good defense.

You lose, every time.

Hi Timber,

On Saturday night have a chat with my wife Kob, she maybe able to help. She's a manager at an accountants and does this type of thing or her boss will know. She'd be delighted to help you dude. See you Saturday.

Originally Posted by Timber

I just got out of a meeting with the Revenue Department to finish setting up my business. The guy came in and looked around my restaurant and proceeded to tell me things that need to be changed and added some more requirements to the constantly expanding list of documents I need. This is my 3rd meeting with them, each time I come up with the required documents they come up with some more. My interpreter informed me that this will go on until I pay a bribe. "How much then?" I ask. "I don't know, he'll tell us next week." I've been avoiding paying these guys off because I don't want to start a trend of this and that office coming here to get paid off. I'd rather do it all legit but it appears that this is impossible, they'll just make up requirements until I succumb to the payoff. Allegedly if I pay these guys off no one else will come in here to "inspect" etc. So my questions are; how much should I allow myself to be pillaged for? Has anyone else had to jump through these hoops and how did you fare in the end? Is there anyone running a business here that hasn't been extorted? Where does it end? Thanks for the feedback.

It may not even be a bribe they are looking for just a case of a bureaucratic nightmare.

As a reference I have been in similar situations where a bribe was flatly refused to expedite the process.

Sometimes it is hard to tell.

if a bribe has not been offered in the first instance. Then none will be expected. Secondly one should never ask if a bribe is needed. As it will simply be refused. It has to come from you. What you are willing to pay to smooth things over. Therefore at your stage I would not bother and allow it to take it course. I also run a business and never ever had to offer or give anything to the Revenue Dept. Besides you bribe one official and the other will not be aware of it. You will find that they will turn it down.

^^^I know it Tex, thats why I've not gotten my license yet, I never made the under the table slip and each time I brought them the documents they took them, gave me the opportunity to give some money, when I simply stared back at them for a few minutes they'd come up with some more "required" documents. The guy thats helping me out with the language barrier is the GM of a very nice western place at Ari. He knows the restaurant scene very well in Bkk, and he's the one that said no matter how much I play by the established rules that they will keep making trouble for me until I pay them off. He's had to go through it at his place, even though its owned by some elite Thais. I guess this government guy implied in todays meeting that some extra money would ensure that everything went smooth for me and I wouldn't have to deal with other offices. Sure.

^^Thanks for the help mini. Looking forward to it.

^The level of red tape and bureaucracy here amazes me. It seems even the people in the offices don't really know whats going on half the time. I'm pretty sure in this case they want a payoff. Otherwise wouldn't they just tell me everything I need the first time?

^Tm I think I understand what you're saying but why would they keep changing the requirements on me? Each time I've been sent away to change some small thing or add some other document and each time I go back it changes. I don't understand all thats being said, my Thai really sucks, which makes it all the more confusing. But the guy thats helping me is a trusted friend who has made this whole venture a lot easier than it could've been. So when he tells me this guy needs to be bribed to finish the paperwork I'm inclined to just go with what he says. He said the reason the guy came to my place today for the meeting is so I could give him the money outside of his office. I didn't pay him, he came up with a new list of things I must do to get the registration. I'm worried that if I keep battling it out with them, they'll just keep coming up with more reasons to mess with me.

Guess it seems like a question of how much then.

You give him 10,000 baht and your troubles may be over.

5000 baht might even be enough.

Originally Posted by Timber

^Tm I think I understand what you're saying but why would they keep changing the requirements on me? Each time I've been sent away to change some small thing or add some other document and each time I go back it changes. I don't understand all thats being said, my Thai really sucks, which makes it all the more confusing. But the guy thats helping me is a trusted friend who has made this whole venture a lot easier than it could've been. So when he tells me this guy needs to be bribed to finish the paperwork I'm inclined to just go with what he says. He said the reason the guy came to my place today for the meeting is so I could give him the money outside of his office. I didn't pay him, he came up with a new list of things I must do to get the registration. I'm worried that if I keep battling it out with them, they'll just keep coming up with more reasons to mess with me.

It's a Thai way of doing things,They can only tell you to change once at a time and not all at the same time.
I've had it for many years. Don't worry they will get sick of seeing you.

Timber, I have no experience of this whatsoever but, reading the thread it seems to me the worst thing you could do is pay the asshole.

What would happen if, the next time he came round, you threw up you hands in despair, shrugged Gallically and said

"It's all too much, I don't understand. Let's just let a company of lawyers sort it out."

and quote the name of a well known legal firm.

Good luck Timber it's a horrible situation to be in.

Originally Posted by Frankenstein

I don't know your trusted friend, and I do not intend to make you paranoid, but I would consider the possibility that since he brings it up, it is he who is trying to arrange a bribe so he can get a cut.

Good common sense.

Even for the brother in laws little game shop in Isaan they wanted a bribe, the missus just kept refusing to pay and about 3 months later the licence turned up. I know its not really the same but they pull the same stunt on their own

^Rigger, its been suggested to me by the owners of my building that if I do nothing this all may go away. They also said I should have never registered in the first place and everything probably would have been fine. I guess thats how it works here. I'm a little worried about the prospect of getting shut down if I stop cooperating now though.

Another clear reminder why not to bother with any kind of business here. Business is tricky enough with leeching mofo's expecting handouts along the way.

^Very true spin, however, I've made my bed now.....