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  1. #51
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Near as I can suss, the OP has no intention of forming a company nor owning the land so none of this is relevant. But do carry on.

  2. #52
    a cookin' an' a bookin' Luigi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    How so Armstrong?
    Because you're wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    My experience was the same as armstrong's.

    I'm betting no number of posters with similar experiences will change Maanaam's mind, though.
    To be fair, I don't think he's purposefully lying about land laws or labor laws, at least at the beginning.


    I think that he thinks he's actually correct, and it's just down to him being simple-brained (borderline special needs?).

    When he gets some fanciful notion that he wants/needs to believe, he takes it on and fully believes it to be the truth, even though it is complete and utter nonsense.


    Strange, but there ya go.

    Anyway, to the OP, definitely one of ye should be getting back to sort it out. Good luck.

  3. #53
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    Maanaam I suggest you should read the laws of Thailand with regard to land ownership.

    A lot of legal companies bend the rules to suit their business activities. But when the shit hits the fan where are they.

  4. #54
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    Nobody except LT has said the "business way" is illegal. I've asked LT to explain why he thinks Siam Legal is wrong and that the "business way" is illegal.
    Until that is clarified, I would suggest Siam Legal's take is correct and that by forming a company with one's spouse, one may effectively own 49% of some real estate.

    ^^ For someone who just repeats and repeats things with his fingers in his ears like a spoiled little brat "Nah, nah, nah, you're wrong, you're wrong", I suggest you keep the comments about special needs to your self.

    ^ So you can't actually cite anything that makes a shelf company's ownership of land illegal if that shelf company is 49% owned by a farang?

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    Nobody except LT has said the "business way" is illegal. I've asked LT to explain why he thinks Siam Legal is wrong and that the "business way" is illegal.
    And I have suggested you read the laws of Thailand not those claimed as being correct by legal companies and Real Estate brokers who make their money out of doing business with farangs.

    Up to you mate. Believe what you want to believe is my suggestion now. Job done.

  6. #56
    a cookin' an' a bookin' Luigi's Avatar
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    Holding companies and Thai nominee shareholders

    Foreign investors holding property through shell companies using Thai nominees have been warned to restructure their holdings or face prosecution. The Commerce Minister Krirk-krai Jirapaet told foreign journalists at a dinner talk on Friday: 'Foreigners using shell companies to buy housing across the country are violating two laws. One, the Land Act that forbids foreigners from holding land and two, the Foreign Business Act by using nominee structures.


    Q - If these shell companies have always been illegal, why has this become such a common practice?

    A - If a lie is told often and long enough and the law not enforced it becomes the truth. The same with Thai land holding companies for foreign land ownership. Foreign purchasers believed these companies were a legally recognized and sound method for foreigners to 'own' land in Thailand. In fact it is and always has been illegal and exists based on a non-enforcement of the law. The current announced shift in law enforcement is not an unforeseen development for legal specialists as the laws prohibiting the use of Thai nominees and shell companies by foreigners have always been there. The law was not enforced by the previous government, though the risk of future law enforcement was always there.

    https://www.samuiforsale.com/real-es...d-on-land.html


    News Article Foreigners illegally Owning land Through Nominees and Agents

    https://www.samuiforsale.com/real-es...nd-agents.html

  7. #57
    a cookin' an' a bookin' Luigi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loy Toy View Post
    And I have suggested you read the laws of Thailand not those claimed as being correct by legal companies and Real Estate brokers who make their money out of doing business with farangs.

    Up to you mate. Believe what you want to believe is my suggestion now. Job done.
    Yeah, bit slow on the uptake, is our Manny.


    Hope all's well mate, picked up a Bento's pie for lunch in Villa, it ain't no Lil' Aye's but it'll have to do.

  8. #58
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    I know of a farang that purchased a property by way of a shelf company and now is in deep shit because the real estate guy who told him he could purchase the property here by forming the company didn't also tell him the company needed to lodge company annual business reports, returns and pay taxes not to mention the act was illegal.

    Now he is being bombarded from every angle and where is the real estate guy............DONE A RUNNER AND HE IS A FARANG WHO IS PRESENTLY OPERATING IN REAL ESTATE IN A DIFFERENT PROVINCE. Beware.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loy Toy View Post
    shelf companies
    Quote Originally Posted by Loy Toy View Post
    shelf company
    Quote Originally Posted by Loy Toy View Post
    shelf company
    you mean "shell company", right?

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luigi View Post
    Hope all's well mate, picked up a Bento's pie for lunch in Villa, it ain't no Lil' Aye's but it'll have to do.
    All's good mate.

    The missus is busy every day which must mean she is doing well.

    My business in Bangkok is at the cross roads of being incredibly good or depressingly bad.

    Anyway a meeting in Bangkok this Monday with a supposed expert in the field who I hope can grasp what I am trying to achieve.

  11. #61
    a cookin' an' a bookin' Luigi's Avatar
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    To be fair, the law is rarely enforced. But all it takes is someone with a grudge and a bit of influence or money and you use the lot. Not to mention legal trouble.

    New laws and ideas are often put forward, making the punishment more extreme.


    Ombudsmen urge draconian new law



    Thai ombudsmen is drafting a carrot-and-stick law to protect Thai lands from illegal foreign nominee ownership, while developers and consultants suggest more legal transparency, a longer leasehold period and higher foreigner property taxes to prevent nominees.

    Ombudsman Siracha Charoenpanij said the new law would comprise punishment for companies offering advice to foreigners on how to hold Thai property by disguising their legal transaction. This would include law firms and consultants.
    The existing law enforced by the Lands Department requires foreigners found holding Thai property to transfer the plot to someone else or sell it within 180 days.


    "The new law includes a reward to anyone providing information about foreigners owning land through nominees. They will get 20% of the market price of that piece of land as a reward after the plot is sold," he said at a seminar on foreign property ownership yesterday held by the Thai Appraisal Foundation.


    The new law would also deport foreigners found guilty of holding land plots in Thailand illegally.

    https://www.samuiforsale.com/real-es...d-part-ii.html




    Land Dept claims 90% of prime Phuket land controlled by foreigners

    Phuket leads all of Thailand in the amount of land held by foreigners, with up to 90 per cent of prime beachfront land being illegally held through Thai nominees, claims one of the country’s top land officials.

    In response to the problem, new legislation is currently being drafted and expected to be made law in August. The new legislation will make it easier to prosecute violators, the head of the Land Department said.
    Mr Sriracha explained that the law being drafted will be similar in principle to the anti-money laundering laws.


    The law would also expand legal measures, better define what constitutes a violation, specify penalties and make it easier to prosecute violators, he said.


    Penalties for Thai nominees could as much as double existing punishments, while foreigners found guilty will have their land seized before being deported
    , he said.

    https://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket...led-foreigners
    Last edited by Luigi; 17-02-2018 at 02:03 PM.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farangrakthai View Post
    you mean "shell company", right?
    The people here call it a shelf company which is an existing company sitting on the shelf waiting to be activated.

    I have also heard the term shell but many companies up for sale have had years of clean operation which I believe are more expensive to purchase for other business reasons. Hence the term "Shelf".

    One could also apply for a new clean company but must state the reason for incorporating the company and for what commercial business reason. I cannot imagine anyone lodging the business reason as illegally purchasing land.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loy Toy View Post
    The people here call it a shelf company
    don't know much about it.

    maybe you buy the "shelf company" and turn it into a "shell company" which owns land?

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luigi View Post
    To be fair, the law is rarely enforced. But all it takes is someone with a grudge and a bit of influence or money and you use the lot. Not to mention legal trouble.

    New laws and ideas are often put forward, making the punishment more extreme.


    Ombudsmen urge draconian new law



    Thai ombudsmen is drafting a carrot-and-stick law to protect Thai lands from illegal foreign nominee ownership, while developers and consultants suggest more legal transparency, a longer leasehold period and higher foreigner property taxes to prevent nominees.

    Ombudsman Siracha Charoenpanij said the new law would comprise punishment for companies offering advice to foreigners on how to hold Thai property by disguising their legal transaction. This would include law firms and consultants.
    The existing law enforced by the Lands Department requires foreigners found holding Thai property to transfer the plot to someone else or sell it within 180 days.


    "The new law includes a reward to anyone providing information about foreigners owning land through nominees. They will get 20% of the market price of that piece of land as a reward after the plot is sold," he said at a seminar on foreign property ownership yesterday held by the Thai Appraisal Foundation.


    The new law would also deport foreigners found guilty of holding land plots in Thailand illegally.

    https://www.samuiforsale.com/real-es...d-part-ii.html




    Land Dept claims 90% of prime Phuket land controlled by foreigners

    Phuket leads all of Thailand in the amount of land held by foreigners, with up to 90 per cent of prime beachfront land being illegally held through Thai nominees, claims one of the country’s top land officials.

    In response to the problem, new legislation is currently being drafted and expected to be made law in August. The new legislation will make it easier to prosecute violators, the head of the Land Department said.
    Mr Sriracha explained that the law being drafted will be similar in principle to the anti-money laundering laws.


    The law would also expand legal measures, better define what constitutes a violation, specify penalties and make it easier to prosecute violators, he said.


    Penalties for Thai nominees could as much as double existing punishments, while foreigners found guilty will have their land seized before being deported
    , he said.

    https://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket...led-foreigners
    OK. A news article from 7 years ago.
    I may have to concede I was wrong, but at this stage, not from a news article from 7 years ago.




    Quote Originally Posted by Loy Toy View Post
    And I have suggested you read the laws of Thailand not those claimed as being correct by legal companies and Real Estate brokers who make their money out of doing business with farangs.

    Up to you mate. Believe what you want to believe is my suggestion now. Job done.
    Hmmm, so you suggest I read Thai law to be able to contradict a Thai law firm. Not very realistic.
    And your job is not done. Your assertion that Thai law is such and such has not been backed up at all by simply saying, "read the law".
    Tell us the law that makes a shell company illegal and tell us the law that makes Siam Legal wrong in stating that a registered company (belonging 49-51) of a couple can not legally purchase real estate.

  15. #65
    a cookin' an' a bookin' Luigi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    A news article from 7 years ago.
    I may have to concede I was wrong, but at this stage, not from a news article from 7 years ago.
    Thai Land Law hasn't been amended in the last 7 years.

    Land Code Act B.E, 2497 (1954) was last amended in 1999 and 2008.

    The law today is the same as it was 5..7... 9 years ago, with no further amendments made.


    I may have to concede I was wrong,
    Nobody gives a sheet whether you concede you were wrong or not, only your wittle ego does.

    Just like your claims on labor law, everybody knows that you are incorrect and clueless already.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luigi View Post


    Thai Land Law hasn't been amended in the last 7 years.

    Land Code Act B.E, 2497 (1954) was last amended in 1999 and 2008.

    The law today is the same as the it was 5..7... 9 years ago, with no further amendments made.
    OK, but that still doesn't tell me and the forum in general why the law is such that a registered company owned by a mixed nationality couple can not own real estate.
    You are self-referring.
    To a news article that is 7 years old.

  17. #67
    a cookin' an' a bookin' Luigi's Avatar
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    Land Code Act B.E, 2497 (1954)

    หมวด ๙ พระราชบัญญัติ ให้ใช้ประมวลกฎหมายที่ดิน


    การกำหนดสิทธิในที่ดินของนิติบุคคลบางประเภท

    • (๑) บริษัทจำกัดหรือบริษัทมหาชนจำกัดที่มีหุ้นอันเป็นทุน จดทะเบียน ถือโดย คนต่างด้าวเกินกว่าร้อยละสี่สิบเก้าของทุนจดทะเ บียน หรือผู้ถือหุ้นเป็นคนต่างด้าวเกินกว่า กึ่งจำนวนผู้ถือหุ้น แล้วแต่กรณี เพื่อประโยชน์แห่งหมวดนี้ บริษัทจำกัดใดออกใบหุ้นชนิดออกให้แก่ผู้ถือ ให้ถือว่าใบหุ้นนั้นคนต่างด้าวเป็นผู้ถือ
    • (๒) ห้างหุ้นส่วนจำกัด หรือห้างหุ้นส่วนสามัญที่จดทะเบียนแล้ว ที่มีคนต่างด้าว ลงหุ้นมีมูลค่าเกินกว่าร้อยละสี่สิบเก้าของทุนทั้งหม ด หรือผู้เป็นหุ้นส่วนเป็นคนต่างด้าวเกินกว่า กึ่งจำนวนของผู้เป็นหุ้นส่วน แล้วแต่กรณี
    • (๓) สมาคมรวมทั้งสหกรณ์ที่มีสมาชิกเป็นคนต่างด้าวเกินกว่ ากึ่งจำนวน หรือ ดำเนินกิจการเพื่อประโยชน์คนต่างด้าวโดยเฉพาะ หรือเป็นส่วนใหญ่
    • (๔) มูลนิธิที่มีวัตถุประสงค์เพื่อประโยชน์คนต่างด้าวโดย เฉพาะ หรือเป็นส่วนใหญ่
    • (๕) [ยกเลิก] *[ความใน (๑) และ (๒) ของมาตรา ๙๗ แก้ไขเพิ่มเติมโดยพระราชบัญญัติฯ (ฉบับที่ ๖) พ.ศ. ๒๕๓๕ และความใน (๕) ยกเลิกโดยประกาศของคณะปฏิวัติ ฉบับที่ ๔๙ ลงวันที่ ๑๓ มกราคม พ.ศ. ๒๕๐๒]


    มาตรา ๙๘ ในกรณีที่นิติบุคคลที่ระบุไว้ในมาตรา ๙๗ เข้าถือหุ้นหรือลงหุ้น แล้ว แต่กรณี ในนิติบุคคลอื่นตามนัยที่กล่าวในมาตรา ๙๗ ให้ถือว่านิติบุคคลอื่นนั้นเป็นคนต่างด้าว
    มาตรา ๙๙ ในกรณีที่นิติบุคคลตามความในมาตรา ๙๗ หรือมาตรา ๙๘ จะได้มาหรือต้องจำหน่ายไปซึ่งสิทธิในที่ดิน ให้นำบทบัญญัติตามความในหมวด ๘ และหมวด ๑๐ มาใช้บังคับโดยอนุโลม และให้นิติบุคคลดังกล่าวมีหน้าที่และความรับผิดเช่นเ ดียวกับที่กำหนดไว้ สำหรับคนต่างด้าวและบุคคลทั่วไป
    มาตรา ๑๐๐ นิติบุคคลใดได้มาซึ่งที่ดินในขณะที่ไม่ต้องด้วยบทบัญ ญัติของ มาตรา ๙๗ และมาตรา ๙๘ ถ้าภายหลังมีสภาพต้องด้วยบทบัญญัติในมาตรา ๙๗ หรือ มาตรา ๙๘ ให้นำบทบัญญัติ มาใช้บังคับโดยอนุโลม

    You or any other members will want the yellow bit.

    Any shareholder acting as a nominee for the foreigner, will be deemed a foreigner.


    Any number of things can happen, usually not too harsh, depending on the situation and people involved, at the time being.


    Having considered and then bought properties in Thailand, it's worth doing your homework.

  18. #68
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    Because the company is not trading, companies set up with the sole purpose to get round the land laws are illegal. Just because the law is rarely enforced is irrelevant, it is still there and can be used at anytime to extort you or take your property from you.

  19. #69
    a cookin' an' a bookin' Luigi's Avatar
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    About the by and large of it.

    The law can also be amended at any time in the future, and not likely for the better.

    There was talk of clampdowns and stricter punishment during the patriotic yellow shirt shenanigans around 10 years ago, and again as the military junta took over.

    It just takes a greedy Thai or three to clue on that they can get lots of land and property for free.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Have the property transferred to your wife's name. Establish a 30 year lease (Usufruct) with her. All done legally.
    A usufruct is a different thing from a 30-year lease; a usufruct is indefinite in duration.

  21. #71
    Fresh Seaman CaptainNemo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loy Toy View Post
    The only way a foreigner can get his/her name on the back of the land title deed/ Chanoit is by leasing the land.

    The normal lease term is 30 years which may be extended for a further 30 years based upon a new lease agreement being settled during the first 30 year term.

    A foreigner these days under no circumstances can legally own land in Thailand.

    I have been told that Americans and New Zealanders formally could purchase land here for business activity and foreign companies can own land in Free Trade BOI Industrial estates.

    If anyone can confirm or dispel what I have posted above I would appreciate it.
    I wonder if "dual nationals" are counted as "foreigners" when it comes to land?

    leasing isn't the only option... usufruct
    https://www.siam-legal.com/realestate/Usufructs.php
    but...
    https://pugnatorius.com/usufruct/

  22. #72
    a cookin' an' a bookin' Luigi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainNemo View Post
    I wonder if "dual nationals" are counted as "foreigners" when it comes to land?
    Nope.

    No problem.

  23. #73
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    My daughter has 36 rai of land in her name and is obviously a dual national had it since she was 2 or 3 years old if I remember. Vaguely remember having to spend all afternoon in a land office signing various forms with the misses that the land can't be sold or money borrowed against it till daughter is 20 and she assumes control of it.
    Independence day - June 23 for Brits.

  24. #74
    a cookin' an' a bookin' Luigi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buriramboy View Post
    My daughter has 36 rai of land in her name and is obviously a dual national had it since she was 2 or 3 years old if I remember. Vaguely remember having to spend all afternoon in a land office signing various forms with the misses that the land can't be sold or money borrowed against it till daughter is 20 and she assumes control of it.

    Yup, it will legally be theirs, but it will have an adult Thai guardian until the age of 20.

    Typically the Thai parent, obviously enough.

    For the land to be used as collateral or sold or used as a legal asset by the adult guardian the case has to go before the courts, and it needs to be shown that the actions are based on the child's best interest.


    I've never heard of a court granting this.

  25. #75
    Fresh Seaman CaptainNemo's Avatar
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    ...and what of Dave's "section 17"?

    Section 17. With respect to a person who has Thai nationality, by reason of his having been born within the Thai Kingdom of an alien father, his Thai nationality may be revoked if it appears that:

    • He has resided in a foreign country, of which his father has or used to have nationality, for a consecutive period of more than five years as from the day of his becoming sui juris;
    • There is evidence to show that he makes use of the nationality of his father or of a foreign nationality, or that he has an active interest in the nationality of his father or in a foreign nationality;
    • He commits any act prejudicial to the security or conflicting with the interests of the State, or amounting to an insult to the nation;
    • He commits any act contrary to public order or good morals.
    http://teakdoor.com/living-in-thaila...ather-not.html (Thai law - born of an alien father - not equal? Opinion)

    Should I get one my sons regendered on the NHS, just in case?



    ...mind you, none of them were born in the Thai kingdom.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1F2i0rYMj8

    we are all figments of our own imagination.

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