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  1. #26
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Have a look at superficies (section 1410) and usufruct (section 1417). Might be of some help.

    Thailand Civil and Commercial Code (part III) | law-texts

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Have a look at superficies (section 1410) and usufruct (section 1417). Might be of some help.

    Thailand Civil and Commercial Code (part III) | law-texts
    Just like to mention, when you read any of these act or laws you need to read them in context, you can't pick one line and say, that's the bit I want.
    If it doesn't say aliens, it means Thais and one act does not cover all the laws.

    Heres the USA/Thai treaty, or part of it.


    ARTICLE 6
    Income from Immovable (Real) Property
    1. Income derived by a resident of a Contracting State from immovable (real) property (including
    income from agriculture or forestry) situated in the other Contracting State may be taxed in that other
    State.
    2. The terms "immovable property" or "real property" shall have the meanings which they have
    under the law of the Contracting State in which the property in question is situated. The terms shall in any case include property accessory to immovable property, livestock and equipment used in agriculture
    and forestry, rights to which the provisions of general law respecting landed property apply, usufruct of
    immovable property and rights to variable or fixed payments as consideration for the working of, or the
    right to work, mineral deposits, sources and other natural resources; ships, boats and aircraft shall not
    be regarded as immovable property.
    3. The provisions of paragraph 1 shall apply to income derived from the direct use, letting, or use in
    any other form of immovable property.
    4. The provisions of paragraphs 1 and 3 shall also apply to the income from immovable property of
    an enterprise and to income from immovable property used for the performance of independent

  3. #28
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamescollister
    you need to read them in context
    In context and in total.

  4. #29
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    I have an usufruct agreement and also have my name on the back of the chanote of the land that I bought and both were drawn up and witnessed by an independent witness and lawyer so don't all you lower-deck lawyers go telling me that it doesn't mean nothing.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamiejambos View Post
    I have an usufruct agreement and also have my name on the back of the chanote of the land that I bought and both were drawn up and witnessed by an independent witness and lawyer so don't all you lower-deck lawyers go telling me that it doesn't mean nothing.
    Probably means 2 to 5 years jail if they decided to prosecute, don't worry your lawyer won't have to share the cell.
    Hope your not a yank, US inland revenue may want words if they find out.

  6. #31
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    Well well well ive heard a lot of bullshit or should I say read a lot of bullshit on Teakdoor but yours certainly ranks in the top five.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamiejambos View Post
    Well well well ive heard a lot of bullshit or should I say read a lot of bullshit on Teakdoor but yours certainly ranks in the top five.
    Well you sound like you know your onions, so let me take a guess.
    Did you buy the land through your spouse, if so did you sign a declaration that it was a gift and you would make no claim to said land, then made a claim for usufruct.
    Failing to disclose information to a Government official, up to 2 years imprisonment. Criminal code.
    Land act; An alien who uses a Thai nominee [read wife] to obtain control of land, up to 5 years imprisonment.
    Of course you would have filed your quarterly tax returns, as per the treaty.
    You would be well aware that more than one usufruct can e issued on the same land and any usufruct between husband and wife may be cancelled by either party at any time, at the lad office.

    .

  8. #33
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    Usufruct is not a claim ,it is an agreement and is signed in front of witnesses.
    Usufruct agreement was taken to land office and my name was added to the chanote by the land office government official as instructed by my lawyer and witnessed by an independent witness.
    The land is 332 talangwa in size and is used for residential purposes and the garden is used for growing fruit and vegetables.
    Quarterly tax returns [now you're talking shite]only one usufruct per chanote
    [again talking more shite] the usufruct can only be cancelled on my death or my disappearance after 7 years .[you talking more shite]
    The usufruct states that the land belongs to my wife and was a gift from me.
    I will say this pal you're no Perry Mason so don't meddle in things you know fvck all about.

  9. #34
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    Jamie, you can easily google this.

    An usufruct is designed to allow access and control of the land for the purpose of resource harvesting, it's akin to a western mining or forestry lease. It does not cover rights to hold land for residential purposes.

    Next, while prenuptual agreements are valid in thailand any contract signed between man and wife can be voided by either at any time. They are not worth the paper they are written on.
    This is why in Thai upper-classes, divorce (on paper) is so common. You think Thaksin is really divorced form his wife? Most rich Thai couples I know are divorced, so contracts are binding and assets can be protected. As soon as a Thai sees legal trouble they get divorced, transfer assets and them contract for their retention.

    "After the marriage husband and wife cannot make any contract between them affecting their assets and debts. This will then be governed by the civil and commercial code.

    Civil and commercial code section 1469: 'Any agreement concluded between husband and wife during marriage may be avoided by either of them at any time during marriage or within one year from the day of dissolution of marriage; provided that the right of third persons acting in good faith are not affected thereby'.

    It should be noted that when a foreigner is married to a Thai and when property is bought in Thailand the land cannot become a joint matrimonial property. The land must be owned as a personal property of the Thai spouse and therefore it will be managed by the Thai spouse (irrespective the content of any prenuptial agreement)."

    Google it.......you will find plenty of sources.

    Thai Marriage and Contracts

  10. #35
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    Sorry mate why don't you google usufruct agreements.
    I DIDN'T GO INTO THIS WITH MY EYES CLOSED.

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    i was always under the impression the usufruct was a agreement that you leased the said home or land from the holder of the chanote and you had no rights to the land if partner dies you get the land and have to sell within 30 days if your in the will?,if no will land goes to thai family.

  12. #37
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    No the usufruct agreement lasts my lifetime and it doesn't matter if my wife dies first which I hope doesn't happen but if she did the usufruct would protect me until my death then her family would inherit....Everyone is a winner..

  13. #38
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    sorry i forgot that bit.

  14. #39
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    You're welcome.

  15. #40
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    USUFRUCT

    Section 1417. An immovable property may be subjected to a usufruct by virtue of which the usufructuary is entitled to the possession, use and enjoyment of the property.

    He has the right of management of the property.

    The usufruct of a forest, mine or quarry entitles the usufructuary to the exploitation of the forest, mine or quarry.

    The Right to work, the right to the fruits of the land [orchard] no WP required, these are business agreements and you are prohibited from them as an alien.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamiejambos View Post
    Sorry mate why don't you google usufruct agreements.
    I DIDN'T GO INTO THIS WITH MY EYES CLOSED.

    If your usufruct is between you and your wife, apparently you did. She can void it any time she likes. As to the nature of what an usufruct is, it is clearly defined as fruits of the land, resource harvesting. Not residential use.

    I gave you the law cite above, if you have something which over rides it, why not share it here and educate us all? That's what the forum is about.

  17. #42
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    Do you practice Thai law? even an uneducated guess would furnish the answer as a big resounding NO.
    Three different law firms were consulted by me and my wife purely to put my mind at ease and get all bases covered.
    The last two lines of your post are utter shite and have no bearing whatsoever on my agreement along with all the other shite you have posted previously.
    I have no wish to discuss this any further with you. THANKYOU.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yasojack View Post
    There you go necron ,if you don't agree see a lawyer.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamiejambos View Post
    Do you practice Thai law? even an uneducated guess would furnish the answer as a big resounding NO.
    Three different law firms were consulted by me and my wife purely to put my mind at ease and get all bases covered.
    The last two lines of your post are utter shite and have no bearing whatsoever on my agreement along with all the other shite you have posted previously.
    I have no wish to discuss this any further with you. THANKYOU.

    So you paid three times for someone not accountable to tell you what you wanted to hear?
    Good for you.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necron99 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jamiejambos View Post
    Do you practice Thai law? even an uneducated guess would furnish the answer as a big resounding NO.
    Three different law firms were consulted by me and my wife purely to put my mind at ease and get all bases covered.
    The last two lines of your post are utter shite and have no bearing whatsoever on my agreement along with all the other shite you have posted previously.
    I have no wish to discuss this any further with you. THANKYOU.

    So you paid three times for someone not accountable to tell you what you wanted to hear?
    Good for you.
    Especially as you can do it yourself for I think 200 Baht.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamescollister View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Necron99 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jamiejambos View Post
    Do you practice Thai law? even an uneducated guess would furnish the answer as a big resounding NO.
    Three different law firms were consulted by me and my wife purely to put my mind at ease and get all bases covered.
    The last two lines of your post are utter shite and have no bearing whatsoever on my agreement along with all the other shite you have posted previously.
    I have no wish to discuss this any further with you. THANKYOU.

    So you paid three times for someone not accountable to tell you what you wanted to hear?
    Good for you.
    Especially as you can do it yourself for I think 200 Baht.
    Thailand is full of Barstool experts such as you and necron and both of you are
    are a disservice to Teakdoor and its members.
    Both of you will be telling me next that my last will and testament is invalid and not worth the paper its written on

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necron99 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jamiejambos View Post
    Sorry mate why don't you google usufruct agreements.
    I DIDN'T GO INTO THIS WITH MY EYES CLOSED.

    If your usufruct is between you and your wife, apparently you did. She can void it any time she likes. As to the nature of what an usufruct is, it is clearly defined as fruits of the land, resource harvesting. Not residential use.

    I gave you the law cite above, if you have something which over rides it, why not share it here and educate us all? That's what the forum is about.
    Educating people such as yourself would be a great waste of anybody's time and effort especially as you think you have the finest legal brain in Thailand operating from your bar-stool.

  23. #48
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    Jamie i have always believed if your not well connected in Thailand anything can happen.


    Norton you were well connected do you think, if you weren't you would of won your case?

    The person in the videos used to boast of his law firms wins in court but never told us of his losses.

    The persons status in Thailand has a lot to do with everything
    Last edited by Yasojack; 18-03-2014 at 08:34 AM.

  24. #49
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    it seems to me that a lot of farangs in Thailand are afraid of the things that may never happen including yourself?????????
    Either an usufruct agreement is legally binding or it isn't?
    If it isn't why is it on the statute books? there would be no point to it.
    My last will and testament is legally binding or it isn't it and is against the law.
    Which is it going to be?

  25. #50
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    I thought we were referring to usufructs.

    I'm not scared of anything if anything happened my kids get everything and thats all i'm interested in.

    If you weren't sure yourself why go to all the trouble of seeing three law firms for your piece of mind.?

    sorry to say this but your being defensive is there something happening in your life your not sharing.?

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