Thread: Disaster alert! New Build...

Understand that construction is an imperfect science. This combined with natural elements (site conditions, weather, wood members, human foibles) means that things could change, must be changed, or simply exceed capabilities. The Mini Blinds behind your Home are not real.
Kool design. KISS philosophy (Keep It Simple Stupid)

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

the dad has already said that he won't be sticking to them

Then get rid of the AH.
It's your money and your house so have what you want, not what he wants to build

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

I'm gonna meet up with an architect friend of mine and get some exact plans sorted out - the dad has already said that he won't be sticking to them...

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Well, any advice?

Better tell dad you want build as per plan. In a nice way.

Originally Posted by Thetyim

Then get rid of the AH. It's your money and your house so have what you want, not what he wants to build

He didn't say it like that Thetyim. He isn't educated or trained, just worked damn hard all his life, built his home and a couple of others for close relatives - by himself. He's just worried that he doesn't have the skillset to follow plans, but chatting to him, he has the smarts, local knowledge and ability to get jobs done.

I didn't particularly pick a design I love, just a simple one for a simple home for the missus and her mother really (the parents split up years ago, but get on well and are happy to live within a few rai of each other).

Also, I don't consider it my home, and I don't expect to end up here; so I'll let the missus, her mum and dad have as much input as they like - it's their home; we've been together nearly 10 years, so I want to give them something concrete, so to speak...

Give him the rough plans, give him the budget (and stick to it) and you'll probably end up with something not too bad.

Personally, it's exactly what I wouldn't build, but Thais like to live in storage heaters as they gain face.

Originally Posted by IceSpike

Understand that construction is an imperfect science.

Originally Posted by IceSpike

things could change

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Give him the rough plans, give him the budget (and stick to it) and you'll probably end up with something not too bad.

Looks like you guys have more experience/knowledge than me on this...

The dad is suggesting that we don't go up, we go sideways because the cost of building strong concrete supports on site is costly. He suggests, raising the property by half a metre only, building on one floor then building as wide as we like (the plot is on nearly 3 rai) would be more cost effective - if they're happy with that, then fine...

He reckons that the same floor space on one level (raised off the ground) would cost about 60-70% of building it on two levels... Fine.

[at]tsicar

I get a teensy weensy idea that you've had some previous issues with house-building in Thailand.

Don't hold it in. Let it all out - you will feel much better for it

Simon

Tiscar is spot on, but seeing as you're seemingly happy to give them 600k then let them get on with it.

Originally Posted by Bogon

--EDIT--

Just had to scrap everything I typed because it was based on you building a 2 story place as you stated in the OP. Now that you are going for the bungalow route my words are redundant.


Good luck with the project.

I'd still be interested in what you say, mate. I have no fixed plans yet, I'd like as many folk's input as possible before things are set in stone, so to speak.

Originally Posted by Bogon

I hope you don't take this the wrong way Betty, but I think tsicar has gave some solid constructive (excuse the pun) critisism. He's just being cruel to be kind.
It looks like you have committed to the missus and family that this build is happening and are in the latter stages of putting the 1st shovel in the ground.

I'm sure if you take all the positives and negatives onboard, you will get what you in the end.

Keep us updated eh?

thanx bogon and marmite.
no, i was not just being negative and nor was i just finding another way to bash the thais, although this thread was a very tempting opportunity!

i honestly hope the op gets a great build done at a great price.

for those that don't know, because of the lack of control over the building industry (great if you owner build and know what you are doing), and if one looks back in this forum, all the electrical and plumbing nightmares that are just waiting for a chance to become yours are well documented.
getting the wife's family involved in any venture at all in thailand is also a disaster waiting to happen, if only because of the way thai culture works, and any criticism at all will be met with a brick wall and just cause headaches and problems..

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

We have not left any land to settle, so we will need to dig down - now, this is an area I'm a bit worried about... The dad says that the ground is very strong (he says it's like digging through stone), so they only need to drive down pillings to half a metre. Is this right?

No, it is not right. The good thing is that you appear to have sound ground on which to build. You should have foundations nearer one metre deep so as to be certain that the house will be sound. Some extra work in digging the hard soil will be worthwhile.

In another post you mention buildings "sideways" and this is very sensible especially given the large area of the site. I have studied a little because I had considered building a house in Thailand myself and I didn't want to be ripped off by paying for an inferior build.

As a common sense example : In the UK a garden wall, 42 inches high, would ordinarily sit on footings which were the same depth as your father in law says is suitable for a house ( bungalow ). It stands to reason that single storey dwellings in the UK usually have footings which are just over a metre deep. A house built in Thailand should be the same. If you screw up the foundation, it will be a disaster.
Your house will look nice even with with no footings at all but this will be no comfort when the bloody thing falls down.

I have a mate who relied on a family friend to build his house. He didnt even lay proper foundations and the property is consequently unsafe/unfit to reside in.

The builder also ran off with almost 500,000 baht which he advanced the guy.

Allowing unskilled natives to simply make things up as they go along is ok if you have a great deal of time and money to waste.

If you havent then best take the sound advice offered in previous posts

I wish you well BB.

Originally Posted by can123

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

We have not left any land to settle, so we will need to dig down - now, this is an area I'm a bit worried about... The dad says that the ground is very strong (he says it's like digging through stone), so they only need to drive down pillings to half a metre. Is this right?

No, it is not right. The good thing is that you appear to have sound ground on which to build. You should have foundations nearer one metre deep so as to be certain that the house will be sound. Some extra work in digging the hard soil will be worthwhile.

In another post you mention buildings "sideways" and this is very sensible especially given the large area of the site. I have studied a little because I had considered building a house in Thailand myself and I didn't want to be ripped off by paying for an inferior build.

As a common sense example : In the UK a garden wall, 42 inches high, would ordinarily sit on footings which were the same depth as your father in law says is suitable for a house ( bungalow ). It stands to reason that single storey dwellings in the UK usually have footings which are just over a metre deep. A house built in Thailand should be the same. If you screw up the foundation, it will be a disaster.
Your house will look nice even with with no footings at all but this will be no comfort when the bloody thing falls down.

different soil conditions require different kinds of foundations.
seems to me the thais only know one way to build (the thai way)
for some houses they build, the footings are just right.
others are way under engineered and often over engineered- there is virtually no deviation or allowance made for soil conditions, so one could pay for a shitload of rebar which is not required in one instance, or use far too little in another.
my pet gripe is about the way they mix their concrete, and i would strongly recommend the use of one of the readymix companies, who will send a truckload of correctly mixed concrete which conforms to the specified strength required for the job and DO NOT let any of the workers (gwai in thai, for those not familiar with thai construction terms), mix ANY more water into the mix at all.

without the correct foundation, and even if they do an excellent job on the rest of the house, you have shit on your hands.

I'd like to give Tsicar a green, but am out of ammo, so if somebody else could do it for me...

Yes, lots of good points.

I have seen his houses (he lives in one) and they are okay for Thais, pretty much as suggested, at length, above.

I am similar to Tsicar insomuchas I don't really respect the local population... No offense Thailand...

However, I don't overly give a fuk. I will not be spending out my final days there... Actually, it's at least partially an escape plan. The family have given me much over the years, including money when I needed it, and I've given very little back. Once the missus is happily settled in her home for the rest of her days then I, well, I can do as I please, conscience appeased.

However, however, that doesn't mean that money needs to be thrown away. So, there are two sides here:

1) the missus, who learnt from her dad, will not be wasting 1 baht. No local anybody will be overcharging. If there's something they both do well it's look after money. When the missus is at the market and finds the cheapest stall, searches under every pile to find the best bargain, she still demands a discount... The dad is similar.

2) I clearly do need to be on guard. I will keep the money in my bank account, and we'll set up a staged plan that can be managed closely with regard to costs and time; I'll make sure I'm on top of it.

3) did I say 2? Quality of workmanship. Some very good points above. How about I bring in some 'experts' such as homepro to do the wiring, and I take care to be very specific with the quality requirements (i.e. my standards)?

These are exactly the comments I need gents, thank you and keep them up.

It looks like I'm gonna have to get more involved than I thought... I don't really wanna be doing much onsite management, but careful plans and outlines of quality of goods and just who is capable of doing any particular job...

So, I'm gonna read through a fair few building threads, and get a spreadsheet and staged plan in place. I suppose step 1 is the foundations. So:

Step 1 - foundations.

Digging down half a metre. Okay or not? The land is in Nakhon Nayok. How many piles for this size, do ya reckon? Are the concrete bars/pillars that are already constructed offsite okay?

Originally Posted by can123

No, it is not right. The good thing is that you appear to have sound ground on which to build. You should have foundations nearer one metre deep so as to be certain that the house will be sound. Some extra work in digging the hard soil will be worthwhile.

Yes, I though a metre too...

Originally Posted by Mr Lick

I wish you well BB.

You've all scared me now!

Originally Posted by tsicar

my pet gripe is about the way they mix their concrete, and i would strongly recommend the use of one of the readymix companies, who will send a truckload of correctly mixed concrete which conforms to the specified strength required for the job and DO NOT let any of the workers (gwai in thai, for those not familiar with thai construction terms), mix ANY more water into the mix at all.

Good idea - on my list.

Originally Posted by tsicar

without the correct foundation, and even if they do an excellent job on the rest of the house, you have shit on your hands.

Very true. I think he knows this because he has already mentioned about not hurrying, taking care with the concrete.

I've already dealt with the depth of foundations, see above. Have you ever seen footings in the UK which were only half a metre deep ? Almost certainly not, garden walls, yes, houses, no.

My biggest fear of Thai buildings is the electricity supply and grounding. Before I move to Thailand I will ensure that I understand all the theory necessary so as to have a safe house. I'm hopeless at actually doing DIY myself as my hands are wonky. I just want to be sure that the guy who is doing the work knows that I know what should be done !

I haven't checked but, if there isn't already a thread dealing with things like fuse boxes/circuit breakers in Thailand, I think there should be one. I think one should consider buying the boxes in the UK. Other posters with real practical experience might like to advise further.

^ electricity? sorted!

This'll make you laugh:

So I mentioned to the missus "We're gonna have to take care with the electricity, pay a bit more and get an expert."

She said: "Don't worry, my dad's brother has worked for the government electricty board for 20 years, he can do it..."




Yes, it has started. Too late to abort the plan???

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

I'd like to give Tsicar a green, but am out of ammo, so if somebody else could do it for me...

Yes, lots of good points.

I have seen his houses (he lives in one) and they are okay for Thais, pretty much as suggested, at length, above.

I am similar to Tsicar insomuchas I don't really respect the local population... No offense Thailand...

However, I don't overly give a fuk. I will not be spending out my final days there... Actually, it's at least partially an escape plan. The family have given me much over the years, including money when I needed it, and I've given very little back. Once the missus is happily settled in her home for the rest of her days then I, well, I can do as I please, conscience appeased.

However, however, that doesn't mean that money needs to be thrown away. So, there are two sides here:

1) the missus, who learnt from her dad, will not be wasting 1 baht. No local anybody will be overcharging. If there's something they both do well it's look after money. When the missus is at the market and finds the cheapest stall, searches under every pile to find the best bargain, she still demands a discount... The dad is similar.

2) I clearly do need to be on guard. I will keep the money in my bank account, and we'll set up a staged plan that can be managed closely with regard to costs and time; I'll make sure I'm on top of it.

3) did I say 2? Quality of workmanship. Some very good points above. How about I bring in some 'experts' such as homepro to do the wiring, and I take care to be very specific with the quality requirements (i.e. my standards)?

These are exactly the comments I need gents, thank you and keep them up.

It looks like I'm gonna have to get more involved than I thought... I don't really wanna be doing much onsite management, but careful plans and outlines of quality of goods and just who is capable of doing any particular job...

So, I'm gonna read through a fair few building threads, and get a spreadsheet and staged plan in place. I suppose step 1 is the foundations. So:

Step 1 - foundations.

Digging down half a metre. Okay or not? The land is in Nakhon Nayok. How many piles for this size, do ya reckon? Are the concrete bars/pillars that are already constructed offsite okay?

the thai founds are ok for normal soil conditions.
if on clay,-pilings or for a single story: my favourite, cheap and efficient: a concrete raft foundatoin- (look it up on the net)

or you could get away with no rebar at all: just a metre deep trench, 600mm wide, and fill with 30mpa concrete 600mm deep if you have good hard stable ground.
DO use the local concrete truck, though- if you take into account the savings on labour and the peace of mind- it works out about the same price as buying the materials and getting the thais to mix it. same goes for the floorslab, although the gwai will complain loudly about not being allowed to add tons of water to the mix.

concrete pillars are available and in different lengths and thicknesses.
use steel threaded through the preformed holes every couple of courses instead of the silly nails into the pillar or both if you feel like it.

if you go double storey, best is to go suspended wooden floor instead of concrete if you are worried about the foundations.-could even work out cheaper than going "sideways!)
use the red gum they sell at 20 times the thickness of the flooring planks for the intervals between the joists eg. 20mm thick planks x 20= 400mm between joists.
or use plywood like i did- much cheaper and looks great if done accurately and then varnished.

also look up timberframe construction.
a great, quick way to build.
wooden frames line inside with gypsum board and outside with that fibreboard stuff and paint, line between with insulation and plumbing and wiring easy to fit in the wall gap. you don't need a serious foundation either.


unfortunately it is gonna be very difficult to get any thai to deviate from the thai norm tho, so you would have to supervise and fight with them on a daily basis.

.

I have thought a great deal about a house in Thailand and am coming to the conclusion that I should buy a "second hand house" which has been standing for a minimum period of five years without showing any signs of major structural faults. I think that there would be too much aggravation by building my own and I could not trust a "new build".

Years ago, it used to be said that only fools bought new cars and it was better to buy an older one which had been had been tested and had all its inherent faults repaired. I appreciate that the motor industry has made dramatic progress and this thinking does not apply to cars now. I think, however, that it is appropriate for Thai houses.

This way of thinking does not help you much in your proposed new build, I'm afraid. My best advice is to ensure that the building process is not done in a rush. As long as your house has "a good pair of boots and a suitable umbrella" in the form of sound foundations and a stable roof, the rest of the building can be put right later.