Dam Breach..,..to build or not to build

**DrAndy** · 01-09-2011, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by acudlipp

I think a man should be allowed to work on his own family home

of course you can, that is not considered work for permit conditions

**Tubtaywun** · 01-09-2011, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by DrAndy

of course you can, that is not considered work for permit conditions

That would be great news if it were true. I was lead to believe that you cannot even oversee the build, as in a site manager position never mind getting your hands dirty mixing a bath of concrete.

**Tubtaywun** · 01-09-2011, 05:19 PM

Tools.

If you are planning to use local labour it may be a good idea to invest in some decent tools especialy if you are building in a rural area. Most of the labourers will have a tape measure, a hammer and if you are lucky mabe a drill that may or may not work for a period of time.

I tended to go for better makes of tools for the heavily used and cheaper tools for the rarely used or tools that I have and will eventually bring from Ireland.

This Makita was the most expensive it was 26000 Baht but has earned back some of that money by cutting wood accurately and quickly. There are lots of cheaper chop saws around but the ones that also slide were limited. The hitachi slide saw was not a patch on this in my opinion. It will cut 52 by 300mm at 90 degrees
and 52 by 212 at 45 degrees. I was nervous spending so much money on one tool but have not regretted it.

One of the other main tools used in the build was this compresser it must have been used every day since it was bought.

Continuous rating Input
1,010WCapacityat 90 degrees52mm x 300mm (2-1/16" x 11-3/4")at 45 degrees52mm x 212mm (2-1/16" x 8-3/8")Blade diameter190mm (7-1/2")No load speed (rpm)6,000Dimensions
(L x W x H)670mm x 430mm x 458mm
(26-3/8" x 17" x 18")Net weight12.5kg (27.6lbs) : LS071412.8kg (28.2lbs) : LS0714FPower supply cord2.5m (8.2ft)

One good thing about using compressed air to run your tools is that so long as the compresser is covered the tools can be used in the rain or generally wet conditions where electric tools may be dangerous. Especially when a lot of tools do not come with an earth.

I got one nail gun "king" was the name at around 2500 baht which will do from 30mm up to 92 mm in wood and concrete nails but will only inbed the nails into concrete by about 10 to 15 mm. Its is nothing like a hilti gun but did the job for me. One pin gun at about 1200 baht and a stapler. I do not know what I would have done without them. The spray gun was mainly used for the roof tiles but will be used for many other purposes before I am finished.

Doing concrete forms from wood with the nail gun was so much easier and quicker.

Anyone buying tools living in Thailand would be familiar with the make "maktec" by makita. I have bought a belt sander, a router and a cut off saw for cutting steel. They are way cheaper than the big brands. I have not had good experiences with cheap tools but they all are all still working perfectly.

An arc welder is a handy thing to have around not only for working on the house and making steel doors but repairing other tools. At 3000 baht it has been worth the money.

I have a few hilti drills at home in Ireland so I just wanted something cheap to drill and maybe some light chiseling to clean up concrete. I ended up getting a samto drill made in china dor 1500 baht and it has worked well. Even drilling 4 inch holes in concrete.

**DrAndy** · 01-09-2011, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by acudlipp

I was lead to believe that you cannot even oversee the build, as in a site manager position never mind getting your hands dirty mixing a bath of concrete.

the former may be strictly true, but you can work on your family house

**DrAndy** · 01-09-2011, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by acudlipp

the rarely used tools that I have and will eventually bring from Ireland.

oh yes, the peat cutter, always useful

**Tubtaywun** · 02-09-2011, 05:04 PM

A water tower had to be built. The water will be pumped from the river, filtered into two tanks to then supply the house and other buildings. The water tower was going to be 5.5 meters tall to the base of the tanks so I wanted to use that space for an outside hung nam...toilet ...on the ground and lock upon the first.

I had no experience with concrete load bearing construction. Knowing what I know now I would have used heavier rebar to hold the weight of the two tanks.

The footings I would have done with a bigger footprint and poured in one sitting. These footings were poured over two days. Instead of filling half of them fully they filled them all to a level and topped them up the next day.

The first beams are poured directly onto the ground...whether they will add extra support I do not know but I felt more comfortable that way. The concrete was way too wet and not viberated enough. I insisted on a beam being put from the front center to back center pillar on each level. It may seem like overkill but for the little extra work I thought it could add a lot of strength.

**DrAndy** · 02-09-2011, 05:34 PM

I hope you don't get earthquakes around there

that structure could be a little top heavy and weak

**Tubtaywun** · 02-09-2011, 05:53 PM

^ So do I coz it would not be the water tower I would be worried about but the dam 2 km up river with about 75 million cubic meters of water behind it.

Earthquakes...definitly not good for me no matter what way you look at it.

As I said, I had no experience with concrete but was still sure it was not being built properly. At one stage I was going to pull it down and start again.

Anyone know if there is anything can be done at this stage....apart from pull it down!! Keeping in mind that it is finished now.

**Tubtaywun** · 02-09-2011, 06:14 PM

^^ I would have thought that on a lot of really tall buildings the top third of the building would be way heavier than whats under ground

**OhOh** · 02-09-2011, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by acudlipp

Anyone know if there is anything can be done at this stage....apart from pull it down!! Keeping in mind that it is finished now

Have you seen or approved any structural design for the structure? What size of tanks are you putting in? Water is heavy stuff.

If you feel at all dubious the way to make the structure stronger is to place horizontal steel beams half way up the columns, from column to column This will increase the rigidity of the structure. To stop the top swaying, and thus cracking and coming down, you could place some diagonal steel "bracing" struts from the top of one column to the bottom of the next column. You only need to do this in one bay, north/south and one bay east/west.

The thick lines are the concrete columns and beams, the thin lines are the steel "bracing struts". This will mean that the bays with the bracing cannot be used for "access" but as you have six to choose from that shouldn't be a problem. Until you realise you have put them in the wrong place; but hey you could run a competition and award a prize to the most ridiculous suggestion.

I hope the tower is far enough away from the house so that if it does fall, it would not hit the house.

Could be overkill, but as they say "it's up to you"

**Tubtaywun** · 02-09-2011, 09:32 PM

Thanks for your comments OhOh, You have obvously thought about it and given me a very decent answer

Originally Posted by OhOh

Water is heavy stuff.

water weight is 1 cubic centmeter = 1 gram or 0.001 kilogram I have put two 1000 liter tanks up there which is 2 metric ton.

I wanted to put 4 ton up there and kept tryin to explain that there would be the weight of 4 pickups on top of this structure but alas I had to settle for less... but guess what.... I'm getting used to it.

Originally Posted by OhOh

is to place horizontal steel beams half way up the columns, from column to column

There are concrete beams at about 2 meters from the ground beams. they are about 40cm by 25 cm. After taking so long to make the steel i would have thought they would have taken more care with the concrete to add to its longevity. But alas the Isaan builders seem to want things to stay up until they leave.

Originally Posted by OhOh

could place some diagonal steel "bracing" struts from the top of one column to the bottom of the next column

It is the footings I am more worried about at this stage. At the start i was wanting to put twice the weight up there but have tried to compensate. The ground here is silt from the river and is very thick and hard when dry. It is much harder than clay and was like tryin to dig through concrete when the footings were dug. The problems arise when it gets inpregnated with water it turns to mush. The soil is so thick that it is hard to grow anything because the water takes a long time to penetrate and usually flows off or evaporates before it has a chance to reach any depth. Newly dug holes allow for it to penetrate faster. I am going to surround the water tower with concrete so it stays relativly dry.

Hey...thanks for the input

**Tubtaywun** · 02-09-2011, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by OhOh

but hey you could run a competition and award a prize to the most ridiculous suggestion.

Sorry man...All out of prizes....DrAndy has already won it for most ridiculous tool...

**Tubtaywun** · 02-09-2011, 09:53 PM

I think there is enough concrete here to hold the weights I am talking about.

Once I can keep the ground dry under the footings it should be fine. When I do things I like to do them to a high standard to avoid worries. Mixing concrete properly, larger deeper footings does not cost much more or take too much more time....its just not in their nature to do it.

Just to add the tower is at the highest point on the land so water naturaly runs away from it...I just hope its not the water from the two tanks I see running away

**OhOh** · 03-09-2011, 12:32 AM

^Looking at this above. It looks "strong". Are the tanks going right at the top? Will your pump push water from the river to the tanks?

You might want to check the columns are remaining vertical during the wet season.

The foundations look pretty secure,more concrete than soil. As you say the water tends to run over the surface to the river .

What colour is it going to be. Are there any mural artists on TD?

**DrAndy** · 03-09-2011, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by acudlipp

DrAndy has already won it for most ridiculous tool...

have you been looking?

back to the tank

the concrete may not have been vibrated enough but it will take the weight

the steel inside is probably OK too; it is there to stop any possible extension of the beams, Concrete can take great weights but has low tensile strength

as I mentioned above, if you are in a region of earthquakes, then it will be put to the test!

**Carrabow** · 04-09-2011, 12:50 AM

water weight is 1 cubic centimeter = 1 gram or 0.001 kilogram I have put two 1000 liter tanks up there which is 2 metric ton.

With what you have there, you will be fine. Pour a 1 meter pad around it to keep water from permeating the base.

I wanted to put 4 ton up there and kept trying to explain that there would be the weight of 4 pickups on top of this structure but alas I had to settle for less... but guess what.... I'm getting used to it.

You still should be fine with that structure, your pounds per sqare inch / minus the structure is still low.

**palexxxx** · 04-09-2011, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by acudlipp

I wanted to put 4 ton up there and kept tryin to explain that there would be the weight of 4 pickups on top of this structure but alas I had to settle for less... but guess what.... I'm getting used to it.

I think you'll find that 4 ton is the weight of just over two pickups, Isuzu DMax for example is over 1800 kilograms, (1.8 tonnes)

**Tubtaywun** · 07-09-2011, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by palexxxx

I think you'll find that 4 ton is the weight of just over two pickups, Isuzu DMax for example is over 1800 kilograms, (1.8 tonnes)

I knew they were somewhere over a ton but did not think they were that heavy.

Anyway it had the desired effect.

Originally Posted by OhOh

You might want to check the columns are remaining vertical during the wet season.

It is dead level on top so any movement will be seen....if i go to the top with a level.

**Tubtaywun** · 07-09-2011, 01:55 PM

That picture is a bit small...heres a bigger one

With the smaller tanks, walls plastered and the structure finished I am way more confidant. It took a while to complete.... things like the steel door and the plastering took longer than i had hoped. Some of the plaster had to be very thick to square the building up. The filter will be housed behind the steel door which will in turn feed the tanks. It will recieve water from an automatic pump housed down by the river.

**DrAndy** · 07-09-2011, 02:01 PM

I quite like the look of the tower, especially the emergency exit door, but the roof is a bit rough

anyway, the leaning tower of Pisa is still there after hundreds of years

**Tubtaywun** · 07-09-2011, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by OhOh

Will your pump push water from the river to the tanks?

Pumps generally do have a problem pushing water but when trying to pull water up to the pump they cannot do a lot. The only pump I found that could pull any real distance was a makita for around 26000 baht. It had two pipes that connected to its input. With one pipe it pumped air down to the end that was in the water source and used the air to push the water up to the pump through the second pipe. Ill try to get some info on it.

**DrAndy** · 07-09-2011, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by acudlipp

Pumps generally do have a problem pushing water but when trying to pull water up to the pump they cannot do a lot.

must say I can't really understand that

pump are made to push water; any water they push out has to be replaced by water that gets pulled in

if you have air in the inlet pipe it must be primed usually, otherwise it cannot work properly

**blowin** · 10-09-2011, 02:19 PM

Good to see you back great house and site

**Ratchaburi** · 10-09-2011, 03:53 PM

acudlipp

The pump that you have at the bottom of the tower, can pump the water up to the top of your tower.
It should pump 30 meters.
Won thing I would do is put the pump closer to the water, as these pump do like to be to far from water.

**DrAndy** · 10-09-2011, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by Ratchaburi

Won thing I would do is put the pump closer to the water, as these pump do like to be to far from water.

doesn't make much difference, as long as there is no air in the pipe

push-me-pull-you

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