Steel beams or joists?

[man with no head]

Anyone seen them in use between the supports as I've indicated? I'm wondering if I can replace some of the standard reinforced concrete with these internally to allow me to run pipes, ducts, etc from one room to another. If so how does the cost compare?

[Marmite the Dog]

DD should be back oneday soon...

[daveboy]

Use concrete and run all your services in the viod between your ceiling and concrete slab.

[friscofrankie]

Not sure of the skill set in country. I have worked up some basic plans that I know will involve me getting my hands real dirty during the building of my own home. if you have the experience and knowledge to build/design a steel framework for your home it is definitely doable. Getting it done properly? I am not so sure.

The drawing shows steel trusses tied into the concrete pillars, where the connection is in shear, bad practice better to set this type of fabrication wher the concrete will support them in compression this is where concrete is used best.

My intention is to build a concrete footing/foundation with steel columns and beams to support the upper floors (bottom floor to be an open design with large open spans). The upper floors I intend to build of wood on a concrete slab very similar to typical high-rise buildings in the States (only a helluva lot lighter).

I have built similar constructions in the past and can see how the method could emulate the "house on stilts" construction typical of many Thai homes. Problem with this is the lack of skill set;/ I can layout and weld. Standing over the crew making them vibrate the pour and convinceig them the squirting some bird-shit on a joint ain't welding; would be the toughest part

[man with no head]

You mean like this:



This is what I had in mind when making the image at the top: the beams would extend into the supports (be tied into or welded to the rebar) prior to pouring the concrete.

Or are you implying that the beams should be on top of the pillars and the pillars should be shortened the thickness of the beams so that the overall height is the same?

[Gerbil]

Far too complicated. Raised floor or suspended ceiling are the ways to go to hide your cables and pipes.

[ceburat]

Far too complicated. Raised floor or suspended ceiling are the ways to go to hide your cables and pipes.

The above makes good sense and keeps life simple.

However, if you want more work and expense you could try "false beams", "base board" and "many other types of trim". All work well to hide wires and pipes, but, you pay for the labor and materials.

What I see when I read TD about labor in Thailand - You would have to do all of the work yourself if you wanted it done right.

[ceburat]

Not sure of the skill set in country. I have worked up some basic plans that I know will involve me getting my hands real dirty during the building of my own home. if you have the experience and knowledge to build/design a steel framework for your home it is definitely doable. Getting it done properly? I am not so sure.

The drawing shows steel trusses tied into the concrete pillars, where the connection is in shear, bad practice better to set this type of fabrication wher the concrete will support them in compression this is where concrete is used best.

My intention is to build a concrete footing/foundation with steel columns and beams to support the upper floors (bottom floor to be an open design with large open spans). The upper floors I intend to build of wood on a concrete slab very similar to typical high-rise buildings in the States (only a helluva lot lighter).

I have built similar constructions in the past and can see how the method could emulate the "house on stilts" construction typical of many Thai homes. Problem with this is the lack of skill set;/ I can layout and weld. Standing over the crew making them vibrate the pour and convinceig them the squirting some bird-shit on a joint ain't welding; would be the toughest part

I want to build a one story house using the Thai method of concrete footing/foundation with concrete pillars and concrete beams. Do you have any recommendations as to spacing of pillars, size and amount of re-bar, etc. Size of footings/foundation.

There will be high ceilings, 10 and 12 foot. I want wide open spaces. As you said "large open spans" in most areas of the house. I don't like small rooms or small spaces. Exterior walls will be Thai bricks and cement and many large windows, floor to ceiling type in living room and dinning room.

[Curious George]

What I see when I read TD about labor in Thailand - You would have to do all of the work yourself if you wanted it done right.

I somewhat disagree. Labor costs so little in Thailand, it makes no sense to do it yourself. The laborers will do almost anything you want if shown and closely supervised. If they refuse to do it your way, there are many others waiting for the chance to earn 200 Baht per day.

[ceburat]

What I see when I read TD about labor in Thailand - You would have to do all of the work yourself if you wanted it done right.

I somewhat disagree. Labor costs so little in Thailand, it makes no sense to do it yourself. The laborers will do almost anything you want if shown and closely supervised. If they refuse to do it your way, there are many others waiting for the chance to earn 200 Baht per day.

You are 100 percent correct However, that requires patience. That's something I don't have much of, one of my many short comings.

[man with no head]

Actually I could care less about hiding wires, pipes, conduit, or ventilation. I have thought of a solution that should work instead of using steel beams (the only purpose of such was to allow me to run pipes, etc. along the ceiling and through the supports without weakening the support).

[Itchy]

A particular advantage of using steel beams is it will free up your maximum span allowing you to build a house with decent sized rooms and open spaces.

As for Thai welding standards, you can get the beams made up by fabricators that will easily match the best standards internationally.

Thailand is renowned in the Oil and Gas/Chemical industry for high quality of welding and steel fabrication.

[man with no head]

One of the problems I'm running into is making a good design without having pillars everywhere. For me the sight of a support in the middle of a large room is not something I want to see, thus, the designs I have posted thus far end up incorporating the supports as part of the walls. If I can get decent steel work I can make bigger rooms and have fewer walls and make it feel more open.

[Dougal]

I can make bigger rooms

What size spans are you considering?

Our bungalow has a 9m * 6m central room and is using concrete roof beams.

[man with no head]

One story or two? I'm planning on a two story. The basic foundation size is about 10x12m.

[kerux]

Far too complicated. Raised floor or suspended ceiling are the ways to go to hide your cables and pipes.

Concrete floors in Thailand are standard and cheap. With a nice tile they make a long lasting and beautiful easy care and cool floor.

Raised floors are expensive as are suspended ceilings. Suspended ceilings in a home give it that 'office' look.

Plan ahead. Ducting can be recessed in the floor/walls very easily. Put in more than you think you need for future changes/additions. Put in a vertical wall of styrofoam if you need to for your utilities. It can be covered over no problem with plaster.

Many homes are built now with steel rafters and joists. Long lasting and provide for wide uninterupted spans. No bugs either long term.

Not that dificult. Don't do it yourself. Labor too cheap in Thailand.

[man with no head]

Labor may be cheap but will the cheap labor do things exactly as one wants?

[friscofrankie]

AS said earlier you can order fabrications that require little more than proper foundation to erect them on. Thai steelwork fabrications are shipped worlwide for bridges, refineries high-rise buildings, etc.
As with any project where fabrication is done off-site, you need to provide accurate drawings. While concrete consruction can be erected that will accommodate larger spans I would be more confident in steel fabrications simply due to the skill set and likely-hood that large fabs shops will have those skills to hand. Getting good concrete work here seems to be a crap shoot, with the odds stacked against you.

A 4" slab poured on pan-deck over steel beams and joists will give you a very sound second floor base. I think you will be dealing with design elements that the large majority of home/townhouse/shophouse builders in this country are unfamiliar with; another hurdle, not insurmountable, but there. Finding a builder to build as you want may take longer and will definitely cost (a lot?) more.

If you have a background in building trades, you may be able to "direct" the job to your liking, if not then findin someone with the skill set will be doubly important, and, lacking the experience, it may be a bit more difficult to ascertain the validity of your prospective builders qualifications...

[man with no head]

My father-in-law will be responsible for dealing with Thai workers. The wall I had him build is the bee's knees compared to all perimeter walls in the village. When I inspected it this past March I found no flaws.

Despite that I still intend on being there from start to finish when time comes for actually building the house.

Any ideas on the rough cost difference between steel and reinforced concrete construction for anyone who has this experience in Thailand?

For fun this is the hotel/resort he constructed in Nong Khai (I stayed here to judge the quality of the construction and it was quite nice):



The two most challenging aspects for me thus far are hiding the supports in a traditional reinforced concrete design (since the supports sort of mandate certain room sizes to hide them) and the roof (hence why I haven't posted any more images in the other thread in about a week).

[Marmite the Dog]

Why don't you design the house how you want it and let your father-in-law decide upon the construction method?

[man with no head]

That's another consideration I have.

[daveboy]

Why don't you design the house how you want it and let your father-in-law decide upon the construction method?

That's the best bit of advice you've recieved Surasak.

[man with no head]

Definately, believe it or not that was in the back of my head as Plan C to make a design and let him come up with the best way to contruct. Due to the language barrier I'm going to have to educate my wife on exactly what I want so there's no mistakes (because there will be a few things unfamiliar to them like Western style windows, kitchen, bathroom, etc). While the hotel looks nice I wasn't all that impressed with the construction of my wife's sister's house so I need to find out exactly why that is the case.

But, yeah, ultimately I'm going to have to present the plans to him and let him work it out.

[friscofrankie]

Your father-in-law looks like the guy for the job. Lucky you. Of course without building exper you're gonna have to hand the plans over and step aside. Looks like you lucked into a family with a decent builder.
when you say plans are you talking floor plan elevation and let him work out all ther rest or fully engineered drawings? I go the expense of getting my plans drawn by an engineer. send a set of steel details off for fab and hand the whole shootin match over to paw.

While the hotel looks nice I wasn't all that impressed with the construction of my wife's sister's house so I need to find out exactly why that is the case.

Most likely budget.

[man with no head]

My plans are as follows: when we go back to Thailand in Feb. 2007 I'm hoping to spend some time looking at some of the housing projects in Udon to get a feel for how 'luxury' homes are built there. I don't expect to have a 10,000,000 baht home. My requirements mostly are aircon in the sleeping area, a Western bathtub, and a decent kitchen along with a decent sized A/V room. I don't have to have the most expensive tile, etc. so long as it's functional and durable, for example.

Many years ago I worked for a homebuilder in Florida for about 5 years so I have basic ideas of how things are done here. Photos on the forum here are excellent but I want to see firsthand how things are done there for comparison to what I've personally done in the past.

By that time I should have a much more thorough feel for the CAD programs I'm working with so I can at least be competent enough to present a decent layout of what I want. Obviously dealing with feet here and meters there presents a probelm so ultimately I'll be letting my father in law look at the plans and see if he knows of engineers in NK who can finish the plans to prepare for building. I'll likely be making two plans: one with reinforce concrete and one with steel joists and see which one makes more sense in terms of cost and availability of materials and labor. Once that's done then I'll take the time off needed to build the house and stay in LOS while it's built.

Meanwhile on my next trip I'm going to go back to the home builder places in Udon and see the cost/quality ratio of things like faucets, etc, and see if it makes more sense to buy some things here and take them back.