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  1. #1
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    Pre Planning Teak Wood house construction

    Hi There chaps and ladies,

    It seems like we are going to be going ahead with the purchase of a 100 year old Teak and Pa DU wood mixed house build.

    The wife has had a dream for a long time and it seems i put my foot in it and showed her the exact house she wants to live in whilst scouting on the internet!

    The house is 50 Tarang wa (200sqm) though i dont know its exact length and width, its 2 storeys high and a unique traditional Lanna style. Low lying Dutch hip roof style, Hand sewn poles about 30+ in total and all very old and hard.
    The wife is going to view in a week with an expert and check out the whole deal to see if the price is right.

    In the meantime the madness of having to sort out flights and planning the build and work, I need some sensible answers to questions?

    We need to get a concrete slab laid for the ground storey, with large floor tiles to cover and drainage round the edge.

    At the moment i have no specific measurements, and realise its a bit premature, what thickness would i be looking at?
    what would be the cost of a slab 200 sqm?
    IS there a problem laying a slab in the rainy season?
    What is the best way to run water pipes etc or is this not possible?

    Thats it for now, and pictures will follow very soon..... i promise!

    cheers
    im hot its so hot today.......milk was a bad choice!

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    Quote Originally Posted by benlovesnuk
    what thickness would i be looking at?
    10cm, about 500baht per square meter.
    Quote Originally Posted by benlovesnuk
    IS there a problem laying a slab in the rainy season?
    Yes, if it rains on the day of the pour.

  3. #3
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtydog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by benlovesnuk
    what thickness would i be looking at?
    10cm, about 500baht per square meter.
    Quote Originally Posted by benlovesnuk
    IS there a problem laying a slab in the rainy season?
    Yes, if it rains on the day of the pour.
    hi

    am doing a similar project - answers I got from this forum re concrete
    • 100mm/4"
    • reinforcing mesh
    • expansion joints
    • slope to allow water run-off
    re water pipes - I don't know. i have a phobia (well, one of many) against running plastic pipes inside concrete, would prefer them more accessible having encountered a cracked one inside a concrete bathroom wall

    hope all goes well with the project; lots of exp folk here to ask

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    Good luck with this Ben, the description you wrote sounds interesting, I'm looking forward to seeing pix of the house. Great start..

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    Quote Originally Posted by benlovesnuk
    We need to get a concrete slab laid for the ground storey, with large floor tiles to cover and drainage round the edge.
    I would not lay a slab for putting the house on, Ben

    You need to put enough posts, with footings, into the ground to support the house; the slab can then be poured later, beteween the connecting beams. If you just pour a slab, it can move or crack

    you can see this normal way of building in most of the recent threads

    all the pipes (water, drains, anti-termite etc) can be laid after the columns and beams are in place, and before the slab is poured

    ***unless you need a drain pipe through a beam (toilet to septic)
    I have reported your post

  6. #6
    Thailand Expat jandajoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy
    You need to put enough posts, with footings, into the ground to support the house; the slab can then be poured later, beteween the connecting beams. If you just pour a slab, it can move or crack
    Agreed.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by benlovesnuk
    We need to get a concrete slab laid for the ground storey, with large floor tiles to cover and drainage round the edge.
    I would not lay a slab for putting the house on, Ben

    You need to put enough posts, with footings, into the ground to support the house; the slab can then be poured later, beteween the connecting beams. If you just pour a slab, it can move or crack

    you can see this normal way of building in most of the recent threads

    all the pipes (water, drains, anti-termite etc) can be laid after the columns and beams are in place, and before the slab is poured

    ***unless you need a drain pipe through a beam (toilet to septic)
    I had a feeling there was more to it then my feeble mind could understand...Even though you've kindly explained it, and looking at JAnda's thread im still non the wiser!!>>???

    LEt me break it down and then i hope people can break me down on where im going wrong.....if you would be so kind?

    1) I need to lay footings for where each wooden upright pole will go.

    In my case the wood i believe will be too low if i put that into the ground, so i will need to make small plinths above the footing (almost a semi raised pole for the wood pole to sit on).

    2) Connect the wood pole uprights to the concrete raised plinth above each footing.

    At this point could i build the house as normal so as to get the roof on, and then pour the concrete slab afterwards?

    3) fix all fixings pipes inlays drains and the like (pest control) and then pour my slab.

    Do i have the slab sloped in one general direction or multiple, there is a government water pipe to the left which would be perfect?

    I think thats it........I am completely off track or starting to get te knack please be kind....... first time and all that!

  8. #8
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    ^ sorry i forgot to say thanks to all the help so far from all you chaps!!!!!!! Mucho appreciated!
    Last edited by benlovesnuk; 05-05-2010 at 02:20 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtydog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by benlovesnuk
    what thickness would i be looking at?
    10cm, about 500baht per square meter.
    Quote Originally Posted by benlovesnuk
    IS there a problem laying a slab in the rainy season?
    Yes, if it rains on the day of the pour.

    Thanks DD are you saying this price is with rebar etc or just concrete?

    I make this 100,000 badt for 200 sqm does this sound right?

    What would I expect to pay for footings?

    can i build up to the roof with just footings and poles put on rood and tiles and pour concrete slab afterwards to protect from rain, or is this asking for problems????

    Many thanks again, and again ....

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    Good news and Bad news.......The bad news was that when my wife went round to the house with our expert he made it clear that we would not be able to save the flooring when taking apart the house but that the wood was in tip top condition. This result meant we have stopped in our purchasing of this house currently and are seeing what he can dig up.

    I've yet to understand the reason, but it also came with some encouraging news as well. The expert as i call him, is a neighbor recommended from the big boss who sold my wife the land. Both The big boss and the Expert have made themselves stand out as being trustworthy and going far beyond the means to help us out. I am happy with what the Expert has told us, making the point that the house we are looking at, whilst good, could be brought for 1/5 of the price out in deep country.

    He has already built a numerous amount of houses along the ping river, is a neighbor and understands our plans and seems a can do person.

    At the moment we are thinking about moving our thoughts to the walls and also layout of utilities........

    This I will need help on so more to come!

    Thanks

  11. #11
    Thailand Expat jandajoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benlovesnuk
    he made it clear that we would not be able to save the flooring when taking apart the house
    Why on earth not? That's very weird.

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    Quote Originally Posted by benlovesnuk
    LEt me break it down and then i hope people can break me down on where im going wrong.....if you would be so kind? 1) I need to lay footings for where each wooden upright pole will go. In my case the wood i believe will be too low if i put that into the ground, so i will need to make small plinths above the footing (almost a semi raised pole for the wood pole to sit on). 2) Connect the wood pole uprights to the concrete raised plinth above each footing. At this point could i build the house as normal so as to get the roof on, and then pour the concrete slab afterwards? 3) fix all fixings pipes inlays drains and the like (pest control) and then pour my slab.
    look at any housebuild thread and you could follow the sequence

    like my wooden house

    http://teakdoor.com/building-in-thai...icefields.html (DrAndys Wooden Cottage in the ricefields)

    you pour the columns to whatever height you need, depending on your posts and ceiling height required

    you pour the connecting beams at about floor level

    you make sure any drains and pipes are laid where they need to be

    you pour the floor slab; this should be flat, no runoff is needed as it is under the house and can be mopped up (you can put a slight slope in all directions from the centre, the tilers can do that)

    you can then put your wooden poles up and build the house

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jandajoy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by benlovesnuk
    he made it clear that we would not be able to save the flooring when taking apart the house
    Why on earth not? That's very weird.
    I'm not quite sure? I could be paranoid that he wants to make money on finding us the house and being the middleman and charging extra money, but he made the point that he could get the house alot cheaper not expensive. He seems like a genuine expert and we are very lucky to have him on our side.

    I think he was saying that the whole building was sound, but because so old, the floor would have had to been thrown away as they could not save it when dismantling. Either that or its f$%ked. Lost in translation i guess!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by benlovesnuk
    LEt me break it down and then i hope people can break me down on where im going wrong.....if you would be so kind? 1) I need to lay footings for where each wooden upright pole will go. In my case the wood i believe will be too low if i put that into the ground, so i will need to make small plinths above the footing (almost a semi raised pole for the wood pole to sit on). 2) Connect the wood pole uprights to the concrete raised plinth above each footing. At this point could i build the house as normal so as to get the roof on, and then pour the concrete slab afterwards? 3) fix all fixings pipes inlays drains and the like (pest control) and then pour my slab.
    look at any housebuild thread and you could follow the sequence

    like my wooden house

    http://teakdoor.com/building-in-thai...icefields.html (DrAndys Wooden Cottage in the ricefields)

    I have viewed your thread regularly and it moves to fast in the first phase we are talking about . Its still good though...
    you pour the columns to whatever height you need, depending on your posts and ceiling height required

    OK good!

    you pour the connecting beams at about floor level

    connecting beams? ie A base frame for the slab?

    you make sure any drains and pipes are laid where they need to be

    Do these get run underneath or through the connecting beams?

    you pour the floor slab; this should be flat, no runoff is needed as it is under the house and can be mopped up (you can put a slight slope in all directions from the centre, the tilers can do that)

    you can then put your wooden poles up and build the house

    If I understand correctly would i be better to have concrete columns rising about 0.65 m as a base for my wood poles and these would be from where the original footings are placed...??

    Am i close?

    I promise to get some pictures up soon when our plans can be more stable and ready to start..

    cheers

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    [/quote]
    you pour the connecting beams at about floor level

    connecting beams? ie A base frame for the slab?

    you make sure any drains and pipes are laid where they need to be

    Do these get run underneath or through the connecting beams?

    you pour the floor slab; this should be flat, no runoff is needed as it is under the house and can be mopped up (you can put a slight slope in all directions from the centre, the tilers can do that)

    you can then put your wooden poles up and build the house

    If I understand correctly would i be better to have concrete columns rising about 0.65 m as a base for my wood poles and these would be from where the original footings are placed...??
    [/quote]


    Am i close?

    I promise to get some pictures up soon when our plans can be more stable and ready to start..

    cheers
    [/quote]



    benlovesnuk
    I would never run drains or pipes through the beams as that could then weaken the beam itself. You will need to determine the lay of your land so that when you put them underneath the beam you they have the required fall so that you still get whatever will be in them to flow where you want it to go, shit doesn't flow uphill even in Thailand.

    So you may need to raise your floor beams so that your drains can be higher or conversely you get to dig everything that comes outside the wall deeper into the ground.

    As you have realised trying to visualise an idea or concept is difficult with some reference i.e. a picture, sketch. What I would do if you are seeking input from people here is to draw rough sketches and use them to convey your thoughts. What I do is draw a sketch using microdsoft word and the drawing tools that has available and then I print that so I can scan it saving the scan as a jpeg file which I can then load into the gallery here and put it into a thread. I'm sure there are other ways such as taking a photo of the sketch and then posting the photo.

    Don't be frightened to post a rough idea as you will never get the best inputs if you try and have the design perfect before you show it. Sure there might be some who ridicule your ideas but they would be overshadowed by just 1 good input which helps you get what you want.

    Good luck

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    Sorry a little rushed and on windows paint, tell me how wrong i am, and what i need to add?

    Many thanks

    Thanks ootai this is for your helpful comments, i hope someone can help me now!?!?

  17. #17
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    ^ What you can see is a modified plan approximated, it is not a realistic layout but for purpose of question and answer's sake.

    You can see footings with stone gravel fill and concrete pour, rebar fills the concrete form post, which rises approx. 65 cms out from base level. This is rendered and then wood post is attached (i presume with bolts) but how i really havent got a clue? Sunk in and bolted, female/male cut and combine like tenon and mortise?





    Is my build up right, or am i totally out of my depth with building.....?

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    can anyone suggest where i would put my cess pit, as the houses are below the raised section with no access apart from the front?

    I am thinking natural cess pit that break down waste and uses a pond with select planting that thrive on whats left taking away smell etc. Or would i be better just doing the normal cess pit near the house and let them suck it with thier long hose?????

    manyquestions thank you for your patience.

    cheers

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    Quote Originally Posted by benlovesnuk View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by benlovesnuk
    LEt me break it down and then i hope people can break me down on where im going wrong.....if you would be so kind? 1) I need to lay footings for where each wooden upright pole will go. In my case the wood i believe will be too low if i put that into the ground, so i will need to make small plinths above the footing (almost a semi raised pole for the wood pole to sit on). 2) Connect the wood pole uprights to the concrete raised plinth above each footing. At this point could i build the house as normal so as to get the roof on, and then pour the concrete slab afterwards? 3) fix all fixings pipes inlays drains and the like (pest control) and then pour my slab.
    look at any housebuild thread and you could follow the sequence

    like my wooden house

    http://teakdoor.com/building-in-thai...icefields.html (DrAndys Wooden Cottage in the ricefields)

    I have viewed your thread regularly and it moves to fast in the first phase we are talking about . Its still good though...

    It does a bit, although post 14 shows a post in the second pic then the connecting beams in the last. Any other building thread show similar progress

    you pour the columns to whatever height you need, depending on your posts and ceiling height required

    OK good!

    you pour the connecting beams at about floor level

    connecting beams? ie A base frame for the slab?

    essentially; once the beams are all in place the hole is filled with gravel and sand so that about 10/15cm of concrete can be infilled

    you make sure any drains and pipes are laid where they need to be

    Do these get run underneath or through the connecting beams?

    wherever they need to go; Ootai said this would weaken the beam - true but hardly at all. These beams are not load bearing besides the infill wall anyway. As long as you can thread the pipe between the irons without cutting them, no problem

    you pour the floor slab; this should be flat, no runoff is needed as it is under the house and can be mopped up (you can put a slight slope in all directions from the centre, the tilers can do that)

    you can then put your wooden poles up and build the house

    If I understand correctly would i be better to have concrete columns rising about 0.65 m as a base for my wood poles and these would be from where the original footings are placed...??

    yes, the pics show the original footing columns rising up and continuing up. So take them up as far as you need to go, depending on how long your wooden poles are and how high you want the ceilings

    Am i close?

    I promise to get some pictures up soon when our plans can be more stable and ready to start..

    cheers
    pretty colours

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by benlovesnuk
    can anyone suggest where i would put my cess pit, as the houses are below the raised section with no access apart from the front? I am thinking natural cess pit that break down waste and uses a pond with select planting that thrive on whats left taking away smell etc. Or would i be better just doing the normal cess pit near the house and let them suck it with thier long hose?????
    don't put a cess pit, use a septic tank. the best place is downhill from your house, and downwind. If there is no slope, then make sure you build your house high enough so that the drains can drain ( from your diagram you have no toilet at ground level so there should be no problem)

    a septic tank breaks down the shit and there is little solid waste to worry about (as long as you don't use strong chemicals in your toilet). Down from the septic tank is another smaller tank into which the liquid overflow will go; you should also lead your bathroom and kitchen waste pipes into that small tank, not into the septic tank

    from there you need to let the waste waters disperse using whatever the best method is for your soil type

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by benlovesnuk View Post
    ^ What you can see is a modified plan approximated, it is not a realistic layout but for purpose of question and answer's sake.

    You can see footings with stone gravel fill and concrete pour, rebar fills the concrete form post, which rises approx. 65 cms out from base level. This is rendered and then wood post is attached (i presume with bolts) but how i really havent got a clue? Sunk in and bolted, female/male cut and combine like tenon and mortise?





    Is my build up right, or am i totally out of my depth with building.....?

    looks fine

  22. #22
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    benlovesnuk

    just as Dr Andy said you can put the drain through the beam if you're careful to get it in the middle between the steel without any great effect, I wouldn't because if it ever needed to come out it could be a problem.

    As for your diagrams, the first one looked rather fancy and the second, while maybe a bit agricultural, showed clearly what you are trying to do well done.

    As for the shit tank Dr Andy covered it. If you have a well or bore you would need to take that into account and don't put it too close.

    good luck you'll get there especially if you're not frightened to ask questions.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by benlovesnuk
    can anyone suggest where i would put my cess pit, as the houses are below the raised section with no access apart from the front? I am thinking natural cess pit that break down waste and uses a pond with select planting that thrive on whats left taking away smell etc. Or would i be better just doing the normal cess pit near the house and let them suck it with thier long hose?????
    don't put a cess pit, use a septic tank. the best place is downhill from your house, and downwind. If there is no slope, then make sure you build your house high enough so that the drains can drain ( from your diagram you have no toilet at ground level so there should be no problem)

    a septic tank breaks down the shit and there is little solid waste to worry about (as long as you don't use strong chemicals in your toilet). Down from the septic tank is another smaller tank into which the liquid overflow will go; you should also lead your bathroom and kitchen waste pipes into that small tank, not into the septic tank

    from there you need to let the waste waters disperse using whatever the best method is for your soil type
    We get our water from a well im worried about contaminating the water, is there anything i can do to stop this like more tanks. Or am i just complicating the issue?

    Thats why i was thinking about a controlled natural sewage treament with plants etc in what would be a septic tank passing to a pond. Is this possible in a place like Thailand, or would i end up with a shitty pond?

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    benlovesnuk
    I started a new thread which has some links to a website that has a couple of very good articles about septic tanks, leach drains and how they work and effect a well or bore. From what they say you need to determine the depth of the high water mark of your ground water table and if you have about a metre below the bottom of your leach drain to the high water mark that should provide enough to allow the waste water to filter adequately. I suggest you have a read of those articles.

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    Key

    • A Existing Septic Tank
    • B Pumping Station (if required.)
    • C Vertical Reed Bed
    • D Pumping Station
    • E Vertical Reed Bed

    • F Humus Tank
    • G Balancing Tank
    • H Horizontal Reed Bed
    • J Flow Control Chamber
    Something similar to this maybe....

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