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  1. #1
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    Land Titles ...por tor bor 5

    Anyone ever had any experince with this type of title, owning for long perionds, buying, selling...anything ??

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    Excitable Boy
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    Unless you have a serious contact in the land office who can get the deed upgraded (actually it needs to be deeded first- this type of land isn't "officially" registered by the land office) you could be buying yourself some problems that someone else isn't going to want to take off your hands.

    As you probably already know, it can't be (legally) built upon (though a small house you build for yourself shouldn't be a problem) and is for "agricultural use" only.

    That said, quite a bit of the sea view land on Koh Samui was tor bor 5 less than a decade ago- much of it was upgraded (this was not always done legally- there is the famous story of "The Peak" project which you can Google- several people got screwed, but they were either unscrupulous or didn't do their homework). I looked at some land between Chaweng and Lamai several years ago that was tor bor 5- for 2mil I could have picked up a 7 rai plot- I passed on it as I didn't have enough capital to take a chance- today that land is worth ~6mil per rai (it was probably worth 8mil per rai two years ago) and is chanote- someone with good connections got the deed upgraded (suspiciously quickly...) and did great on it.

    The bottom line is you need to find out if a 'deed upgrade' is possible (this can take several years)- you can make out like a bandit, or you could lose your shirt.
    There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
    HST

  3. #3
    FarangRed
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    I think I'm right in saying it's a Tax payment on the land, best I ask her in doors whan she comes home

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    OKay if you actually want to farm it

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    Found a spectacular block i would like to settle on, the kind of land that you would want to live forever, build the porch, get the rockin chair etc.

    but it is this title type. I know what you are supposed and not supposed to do with it, but just wondering.

    It is not a cheap price either
    I like poisoning my neighbours dogs till they die cos I'm a cnut

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    Excitable Boy
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    If you're planning to build on it (and live on it until you croak) and not develop it for later resale, you'll probably be OK.

    Care to divulge the region?

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    Khao yai.

    Not for development....my private castle.

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    Excitable Boy
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    Aren't there any other people who live there that you can talk to? Or are you going to be the trailblazer (always a frightening prospect in Thailand)?

    Sounds like fun, though- I'm still looking for my retirement spot.

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    This is the thing, you here the boogy stories, but the property is basically surrounded by other farms or dwellings, both large and small.

    But the price is significantly high enough to make you think long and hard, not a few hundred thousand that you could walk away from and say stiff cheddar.

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    Excitable Boy
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    EVERYBODY has a story they heard second- (or third- or fourth-) hand- a couple might be true (like the one I related from Koh Samui)- most aren't.

    It's a tough call- the bottom line is that you cannot legally build a dwelling on the land- if someone (local) was angry with you for some reason, they could possibly make a problem for you.

    Do you have a lawyer you actually trust? Have him look into it.

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    what I have done is buy a small plot in the village with title overlooking the agricultural land

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    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe
    if someone (local) was angry with you for some reason, they could possibly make a problem for you.
    As General Surayud found out with his Por Tor Bor 5 property in Khao Yai.

    Por Tor Bor 5 only establishes the person occupying the land has been issued a tax number and paid utilization tax on the property. Although common to see houses built on land with this type deed, they are built without official permission.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

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    Plenty of houses in Los are built with no permission....many areas do not actually require any type of building permit.

    As for the Generals land, I was of the understanding that his land was issued to farmers that were moved on because of the flooding of the valley below for the dam. They were given this land as compensation and they were not allowed to sell it, only pass onto heirs...forget the title name of this type now.

    The PTB5 is actually saleable ladn, you can actully sell it to other parties, but the sticker is that possession of this type and the tax receipts etc is not an arguable position if something goes wrong. whereas the Nor Sor titles are arguable and proof.

    I do have a lawyer, but as to trusting any of them...probably not.

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    Excitable Boy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nawty View Post

    I do have a lawyer, but as to trusting any of them...probably not.
    Yep, that's a problem- the wife's uncle (real uncle) is mine- her father put him through law school, and he repays that debt by helping the rest of the family in legal matters (he was actually offered a 200K bribe by a landlord to tell me there was a government access road to a plot of land I was interested in when no such road existed- most other lawyers would have taken it and I would have been screwed)- it's a real issue here finding a good one.

  15. #15
    lom
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nawty
    The PTB5 is actually saleable ladn, you can actully sell it to other parties, but the sticker is that possession of this type and the tax receipts etc is not an arguable position if something goes wrong. whereas the Nor Sor titles are arguable and proof.
    Yes and no.. To start with, the word possess cant be used for Por Tor Bor 5 land.
    The land belongs to the government and the current tax payer for the land is the caretaker of the land.
    When, eventually, the land gets a proper land deed the caretaker is the most likely one to become the owner of the land.
    It is very important at that time that you can prove that you have taken care of the land (bush trimming, fruit orchard plantation as example) or someone else may try to get the deed.

    The government doesn't care about transactions of Por Tor Bor 5 land, you can transfer the land to a new caretaker and he'll be the one who will come in question for getting a proper deed since he is now the one paying tax for using the land and you are not.

    Building on Por Tor Bor 5 land is allowed as long as it is a building needed for your care taking. A smallish family house, barns or sheds are allowed.
    You are not allowed to use this type of land for industrial purpose so you can not set up a factory building or make a resort on it.

    You can not register any building on Por Tor Bor 5 land so can't get an official address for it and no house book.

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    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nawty
    The PTB5 is actually saleable ladn, you can actully sell it to other parties,
    You can. PTB5 is used to establish usage rights if disputes arise between private parties. It does not protect against disputes with the State. A PTB5 does not establish ownership.

    Can't recall specifics of the General's dispute with UDD demonstrators but quite sure his wife applied for and was given a PTB5 for the land.

  17. #17
    Excitable Boy
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    Quote Originally Posted by lom View Post
    You can not register any building on Por Tor Bor 5 land so can't get an official address for it and no house book.
    Or legal utilities, I believe- you need house registration papers to get hooked up with an electric meter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe
    you need house registration papers to get hooked up with an electric meter.
    This is not entirely true.

    Maybe in town areas or such, but at the plantation, down on the farm, we have no house registration papers and got the electric connected no problems

  19. #19
    Excitable Boy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nawty View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe
    you need house registration papers to get hooked up with an electric meter.
    This is not entirely true.

    Maybe in town areas or such, but at the plantation, down on the farm, we have no house registration papers and got the electric connected no problems

    Really? How was the meter registered, then? In someone's name/company only, without a proper address listed?

    This is interesting- I wasn't aware it was possible (without illicitly siphoning electricity off the line...)

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    No, we do not siphon.

    It is simply in my wifes name I believe, I shall ask for sure but.

    But we do have a meter and even a proper pole to put it on n all.....3 phase to boot

  21. #21
    lom
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    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lom View Post
    You can not register any building on Por Tor Bor 5 land so can't get an official address for it and no house book.
    Or legal utilities, I believe- you need house registration papers to get hooked up with an electric meter.
    You can get "construction power", a temporary connection to the grid by either paying a deposit and going to the power company's office monthly to pay your bill, or by being registered on another address in the Amphur to which they can bill you.

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    This is a much nicer and friendlier environment on TD...you get all your quieries answered nicely and most of the time you get good honest and imformative replies.


    I posted this over where the devils reside and all the mightier than thou attitudes have been released from the furnace.

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    Excitable Boy
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    Quote Originally Posted by lom View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lom View Post
    You can not register any building on Por Tor Bor 5 land so can't get an official address for it and no house book.
    Or legal utilities, I believe- you need house registration papers to get hooked up with an electric meter.
    You can get "construction power", a temporary connection to the grid by either paying a deposit and going to the power company's office monthly to pay your bill, or by being registered on another address in the Amphur to which they can bill you.
    Which can probably be continued indefinitely as long as the bill is paid (the electric company won't care as long as the baht is rolling in).

    That's good to know- I was always under the impression that tor bor 5 land wouldn't be able to be hooked up to the grid.

  24. #24
    Excitable Boy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nawty View Post
    This is a much nicer and friendlier environment on TD...you get all your quieries answered nicely and most of the time you get good honest and imformative replies.


    I posted this over where the devils reside and all the mightier than thou attitudes have been released from the furnace.
    This is important stuff that needs to be addressed- the more you know about real estate, the more money you can make and the better your investments will be protected- what's to get "holier than though" about- we're all in this together.

  25. #25
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    I am not talking about TB5 land here...we have Chanote....I was talking about us not having house papers or such

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