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  1. #1
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    Ceiling Insulation for AC

    On my last floor, the "plaster ceiling" is not isolated by a concrete floor, but instead it has direct access to the roof. If you go under the roof, it's super hot, unbearable. I like to go there sometimes to lose weight, like an indoor sauna, and I usually lose 2 or 3kg within the hour

    but seriously, would isolating the ceiling by placing "sheets" or rolls of roof insulator would increase the AC efficiency ? it all seemes like that cold air is wasted and being pushed down by the extremely hot air from the roof.

    I understand that there 2 school of thoughts in that regard. I am not looking at isolating the roof, but only the ceiling floor in the roof. Would that make a difference ?

    if it does, what brand would you recommend for rolls of insulators ?

  2. #2
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly
    would isolating the ceiling by placing "sheets" or rolls of roof insulator would increase the AC efficiency ?
    Yes.

    I use this.

    The Siam Cement Group

    Buy it at your local Home Mart.

  3. #3
    Pronce. PH said so AGAIN!
    slackula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly
    it all seemes like that cold air is wasted and being pushed downby the extremely hot air from the roof.
    The Montgolfier brothers frown upon your shenanigans...

  4. #4
    loob lor geezer
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    Yes....it makes a big difference. Without it, as soon as you turn the air con off the room heats up. With it, you can turn the air con off and come back an hour later and the room will still be relatively cool. If you go for it, get the thickest you can afford, preferably 3" plus. Before you install it, put your hand or a thermometre on the ceiling to gauge how hot it is. Then repeat after instalation and notice the difference. They should put this stuff into all new houses but more often than not they don't.

    In addition to the stuff that Norton gave a link to, there is another type that is only about half an inch thick. They claim it is as good as the other type but most people I speak to reckon its not as good.

  5. #5
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bangyai
    Yes....it makes a big difference.
    All a bit like a refrigerator innit. Insulate the living area as much as you can if you want it to stay cool.

  6. #6
    I am in Jail
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    thanks,

    ok I shall go buy those tomorrow, I hope they deliver

    are they easy to cut through ? not flammable if in contact with live electric wire ?

  7. #7
    Thailand Expat superman's Avatar
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    I have insulation having been recommended it when having the house built. It cost me an extra 60,000 to have done. Am I glad I had it done ? No as I think it makes fcuk all difference, heat wise. Only good thing about it is that it acts as a membrane to intercept leaks in the roof

  8. #8
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly
    are they easy to cut through ?
    Yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly
    not flammable if in contact with live electric wire ?
    No.

  9. #9
    I am in Jail
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    I assume I can install them myself, no need to glue or fix anything

    just lay them down on the ceiling floor,

  10. #10
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly
    I assume I can install them myself, no need to glue or fix anything
    How big is the area you want to insulate?

  11. #11
    Thailand Expat
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    Just roll it out in your ceiling area.

  12. #12
    I am in Jail
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton
    How big is the area you want to insulate?
    the whole floor is 120sqm

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtydog
    Just roll it out in your ceiling area.
    thinking of doing that for each bedroom, that would be around 60sqm, the support beam are in between so they would hold the insulators

    I will go HomePro now I think, I want to start that project as soon as possible

  13. #13
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    From the Siam Groups site.
    Stay Cool Green 3 is waterproof and moisture resistant while reinforced aluminum foil extends the insulationís lifetime.






    4 killed and 93 house fires in Ausyland with foil insulation.

    The Government is now in damage control to ensure all foil insulation installed under its home insulation scheme is made safe after the deaths of four people and 93 house fires were linked to the now defunct program.

    It has created a new department, shifted responsibility to Greg Combet, and is checking tens of thousands of homes which have had foil insulation installed.

    But the Electrical Safety Office (ESO) has warned that even if the insulation is given the OK today, it could still become deadly in the future - a fear echoed by electrical contractors.

    On the Queensland Government website, the ESO has recommended the best way to ensure homes are safe is to remove the foil insulation altogether.

    "Ceiling insulation faults, defective electrical cables eg. perished or rodent-damaged cable insulation and home maintenance activities may, over time, result in electrification of the foil insulation," says a statement by executive director Peter Lamont.

    "These factors increase the risk to householders, and to tradespeople undertaking work in ceiling spaces. Some of the associated risks may include electrocution, serious electric shock and burns.

    "The Electrical Safety Office considers that the safe removal of foil from the ceiling space provides the greatest level of electrical safety.

    "Alternatively, householders should consider the installation of safety switches for all final sub-circuits and sub-mains located in the ceiling space by a licensed electrical contractor."

    ABC News Online has spoken to several electrical contractors who share those concerns.

    Brisbane electrical contractor Chris Lehmann says the practice of laying foil insulation on top of cables and junction boxes is "diabolically bad" and that all the Government's latest measure will do is shift the blame from government to contractors.

    "The fix isn't going to work. It's just going to compound the errors that have been made on this issue and foil insulation will kill people for the life of the product," he said.

    "Fifty, 60 years into the future while the stuff is in ceilings, unless something's put in to mitigate the risks, this will kill people.

    "Even if we were able to claim $1,000 for a foil rebate from the Government - at the moment it's $400 - blokes still wouldn't do it because they don't want to put their name to something they know won't give you a guarantee of safety."

    Mr Lehmann says most electrical contractors are well aware that under the current safety checking process, there is no way to guarantee foil insulation will remain safe - opening people like himself up to serious legal trouble down the track.

    "We'd be the first port of call because we give a certificate of test on that job," he said.

    "For this sort of inspection I don't see how - unless we put something in place to mitigate the danger that's ongoing - we can give a certificate of test saying that it's safe.

    "This is such a political issue that you can bet the first time someone gets zapped after an electrician's been in to do the inspection, the first person they're going to look at is the electrician."

    Opposition environment spokesman Greg Hunt agrees with Mr Lehmann's concerns.

    "The Government needs to issue a plan to find and fix the 1,000 potentially deadly roofs," he said.

    But Master Electricians Association CEO Malcolm Richards says the body does not agree with the ESO's recommendation that foil insulation be removed from roofs, or Mr Lehmann's fears that contractors will not be able to properly test for pre-existing safety issues.

    He says all quality contractors should use proper 500 volt testing between the foil and cables which will pick up any problems, such as staples through foil.

    Mr Richards told ABC News Online that home electrical maintenance is an ongoing issue and that people should get their homes checked regularly and have safety switches fitted to the whole house.

    A spokesperson for Mr Combet says the minister is looking at all issues so he can get across them as quickly as possible.Foil insulation checks useless, experts warn - Yahoo!7 Finance News

    Is this the same type of stuff????

  14. #14
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Well, there ya go BF. Guess it's something to consider.

  15. #15
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly
    the whole floor is 120sqm
    Big area. Damn hot up there. If you DIY, be sure to wear one of those surgical masks to keep from breathing the dust.

    If you don't want to use the insulation from CPAC, alternatives are available but they too have issues. Another method available in Thailand is Styrofoam insulation. The Styrofoam is spayed above the ceiling. There are suppliers in Bamgkok but I have no recommendations. Very pricey, if I recall.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by crippen
    Brisbane electrical contractor Chris Lehmann says the practice of laying foil insulation on top of cables and junction boxes is "diabolically bad" and that all the Government's latest measure will do is shift the blame from government to contractors.
    That would make sense actually, hence my question before if they were flammable with live wire. There is safety switch on every box and the cables seem to be insulated in metal tubes but still. Is simply putting those cables laying above the insulation be good enough ? or is it bad only for cable under the insulation ? The weather conditions in Australia might actually be different so maybe not the same issue. Cold can create electric static.

    Quote Originally Posted by Norton
    Another method available in Thailand is Styrofoam insulation. The Styrofoam is spayed above the ceiling. There are suppliers in Bamgkok but I have no recommendations. Very pricey, if I recall.
    I thought about that originally, but I was told it would cost about 60,000 THB which sound the same as the rolls actually if I had to cover everything. But they have to bring a big machine upstair so big noisy job, unconvenient and not sure if as effective as the rolls.
    Last edited by Butterfly; 06-03-2010 at 05:35 PM.

  17. #17
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    Had that problem in my first house when we were poor. It only took a few months to save up enough newspapers to insulate my roof to 6 inches. The difference was just incredible. Now I would probably use insulation.

  18. #18
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly
    60,000 THB which sound the same as the rolls actually
    Not sure where you got the price for Stay Cool but last bit I bought was 75/sq meter. Cost for 120 sq meters should be less than 10,000 baht.

  19. #19
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    cant green ya norton, but to the rescue.

  20. #20
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    Can you buy rolls of 'Yellow Peril' fibreglass insulation here, like we use in the UK ?

  21. #21
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  22. #22
    I am in Jail
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton
    Not sure where you got the price for Stay Cool but last bit I bought was 75/sq meter. Cost for 120 sq meters should be less than 10,000 baht.
    yeah, will need to check what I was reading at home pro, must have missed a 0 somewhere, so the rolls would be pretty cheap at the end

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurgen
    Can you buy rolls of 'Yellow Peril' fibreglass insulation here, like we use in the UK ?
    thought about that too, would be interesting to know their fundamental difference with the aluminum version. Price ? cold weather vs hot weather ?

  23. #23
    ding ding ding
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    The spray on foam that goes on the underside of the roof tile is more effective than rolls of ceiling insulation, but damn, that foam is expensive, figure on 700-800 per square meter.

  24. #24
    disturbance in the Turnip baldrick's Avatar
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    obviously none of the houses in which the installers died had earth leakage protection.

    butterfifi - if all your wiring is run in metal conduit , then that conduit should be earthed.
    just laying the insulation even if it has a foil component , over the top of conduit is not a problem - unless the conduit is not earthed

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bangyai
    If you go for it, get the thickest you can afford, preferably 3" plus.
    6" would be the best



    Quote Originally Posted by Kurgen
    Can you buy rolls of 'Yellow Peril' fibreglass insulation here
    yes, they have a different name for it...can't remember

    I recently had a few rolls eased into the roof of my new place before they closed off the ceiling. It is non-inflammable and easy to roll out, quite bulky though

    if you have electrical wires and lights around, make sure they are well insulated; you can get the rolls with or without the foil, so the latter is safer from the electric point of view
    I have reported your post

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