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  1. #1
    Thailand Expat
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    Lighting question

    I want to fit those small downlights in several locations in my new concrete box

    they have some nice fittings, suitable for both 240v and 12v

    the 240v lamps are only available in 50w rating, the 12v in 20, 35 and 50w

    the 12v need a seperate transformer for each fitting, costing about B120 each, otherwise the costs are about the same

    so..... do the 12v, 50w lamps cost less to run than the 240w equivalent, even though they are rated at the same wattage? it would be 1/20th if the equation makes sense

    I seem to remember an equation about watts, volts and amps, but if rated at 50w, then they use that anount of power, or am I thinking incorrectly?
    I have reported your post

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy
    or am I thinking incorrectly?
    about what ?

  3. #3
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    Do yourself a favour and run the 12V lights from a battery charged from the mains.
    When you get a power cut the lights will still work. Be wary of Voltage drop though.
    A Watt is a Watt is a Watt.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nawty View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy
    or am I thinking incorrectly?
    about what ?

    yes, about watt

    so, is the 12v systen cheaper to run? or the same, using 50W lamps

  5. #5
    Thailand Expat Jesus Jones's Avatar
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    12 V lighting should be used where they might be exposed to moisture. 240v can be used provided they are in a sealed enclosure and have a suitable IP rating.

    12V also produce a much nicer light btw.

  6. #6
    Thailand Expat Jesus Jones's Avatar
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    The difference in running cost is minimal between the two.

  7. #7
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    unless they are solar powered.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus Jones View Post
    12 V lighting should be used where they might be exposed to moisture. 240v can be used provided they are in a sealed enclosure and have a suitable IP rating.

    12V also produce a much nicer light btw.

    so no difference in running costs, even though the 12v seem to run cooler

    I suppose you get the advantage of different 12v wattage bulbs, although that can be compensated for with a dimmer in 240V

  9. #9
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    240v, 50w consumes 49.99 watts of power (kw hour is power company unit of charge)

    12v, 50w consumes 50.00 watts of power (kw hour is power company unit of charge)

    12v will run cooler.

    If power consumption is your priority use 220v and save the cost of transformer.

    Been a long time since I used ohms law so if wrong, go easy on me.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

  10. #10
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy
    although that can be compensated for with a dimmer in 240V
    This is what I have in my place. Need to keep in mind wattage drawn by all lights on one dimmer. Dimmers have different max wattage capability.

  11. #11
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy
    I want to fit those small downlights in several locations in my new concrete box
    Guess you're referring to recessed lights? Would suggest halogens. One transformer/dimmer for multiple lights.

  12. #12
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    I know nothing about conversion rates for electrical power Doc but I use frequency inverter blocks on each light fitting which controls the amount of power reaching the globe increasing it's lifespan.

    These smallish converters (price approx. 270 Baht each) is positioned at a point between the switch and the outlet and has worked wonders for me and with regard to replacement of expensive bulbs.

  13. #13
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    ^
    Tell me more about these converters LT, I am sick and tired of shelling out for energy efficient 10 year guarantee bulbs only for them to blow within a year!

  14. #14
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    If you are using recessed halogen 12v lighting with remote transformers they will have a nice warm color. They are used a lot in retail. They do give off a lot of heat though and replacement cost for the MR15 lamp is higher than a normal lamp.

  15. #15
    disturbance in the Turnip baldrick's Avatar
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    the difference in power used will be the heat given off by the 240/12 volt transformer

    remember to place your transformer where it can be cooled by air and not covered by anything flamable.

    I would have thought the 12volt units would cost more because of the transformer , but maybe they are not actually using a transformer but another method to perform the voltage drop which may be even more in-effecient that a transformer.

    12 volt 50 watt is 4 amps so do not use speaker wire to extend the 12 volt side
    Last edited by baldrick; 07-01-2010 at 03:36 PM.

  16. #16
    anonymous ant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    240v, 50w consumes 49.99 watts of power (kw hour is power company unit of charge)

    12v, 50w consumes 50.00 watts of power (kw hour is power company unit of charge)

    12v will run cooler.

    If power consumption is your priority use 220v and save the cost of transformer.

    Been a long time since I used ohms law so if wrong, go easy on me.
    yep, norton is correct, and so is ohm's law.
    watts is watts and that's watt you will pay for, whether it is 12 volt or 220.

  17. #17
    Thailand Expat terry57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsicar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    240v, 50w consumes 49.99 watts of power (kw hour is power company unit of charge)

    12v, 50w consumes 50.00 watts of power (kw hour is power company unit of charge)

    12v will run cooler.

    If power consumption is your priority use 220v and save the cost of transformer.

    Been a long time since I used ohms law so if wrong, go easy on me.
    yep, norton is correct, and so is ohm's law.
    watts is watts and that's watt you will pay for, whether it is 12 volt or 220.

    Very true.

    I decided to use 12v down lights in my gaff and fitted a heap of them around the house. It wasn't long before I regretted my decision as I found that the bulbs would blow at frequent intervals and they where bloody expensive to replace.

    In my next house I fitted 240v down lights on dimmers and found these to be much better as you can regulate the amount of light you want at any different time and replacement globes are piss cheap.

    Go the 240v down lights on dimmers matey.
    Stroller is a Yerman faggot.

  18. #18
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    the bulbs are only B35 each so not too expensive! the only time I had to replace them was when my dear daughter went round to check the place was Ok and left the lights on for about two months!!

    but having dimmers is nice although in the kitchen and bathroom in London I never actually use them, just in the living areas

    The power consumption is a bit worrying though as I want three above each worksurface in the kitchen, making 450 watts burning away when the lights get left on (as they do)

  19. #19
    Thailand Expat Jesus Jones's Avatar
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    You could also consider 240v LED. Some of the better quality LEDs are pretty good now.

    3.3 watt LED = 40 watts if i'm not mistaken.

    However, if cost cost saving outweighs safety and a better light quality, then stick to 240v diroic.

    One other thing. If you suffer from constant power spikes in your area, 12v is not a good idea.
    You bullied, you laughed, you lied, you lost!

  20. #20
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    What about 12v LEDs? Do they make them?

    I was thinking about using stored solar energy to power them.

  21. #21
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy
    but having dimmers is nice although in the kitchen and bathroom in London I never actually use them, just in the living areas
    Nor do I so just have switches. Dimmers only in living room, dining room and bedrooms (for the romantic).

    The power consumption difference is insignificant and the cost of bulb replacement cheaper so as Terry says go with the 220v incandescent bulbs. I always use the frosted bulbs as they give a better light dispersion and lighting quality.

  22. #22
    Boxed Member
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    basically, if you want to save power.....both for the environment and your cash at the end of the month.....the most technical point to remember is to turn the lights off.

  23. #23
    I am in Jail
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    12V have a nice warm light

    but I was able to find 220V Halogen with the same warm light, except they run extremely hot, so hot that case might melt with time

    I have 100W and 150W halogen on 220V and I use dimmer, someone here mentioned that using the dimmer with halogen might actually consume as much power as using no dimmer. Is that true ?

  24. #24
    Thailand Expat Jesus Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog View Post
    What about 12v LEDs? Do they make them?

    I was thinking about using stored solar energy to power them.

    Yes, Delta light make some excellent LEDs 12v but very expensive to buy, last years though. I used to install them in the UK with Lutron and Polaron system and they give fantastic ambiance, the transformers are completely silent too.

    I believe there is a Delta dealer near Londoner on the main road.

  25. #25
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    as far as I have seen, LEDs do not give enough light for room use; they are mainly recommended for highlighting areas etc.

    I am sure they will develop brighter ones over the next couple of years though

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