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  1. #1
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    Hot water as nature intended

    Anyone have any experience/ideas on a friendly hot water system ?? We will be bathing neked under the stars, as nature intended, so getting the water hot the same way might be nice.

    We are about to build a small bathroom on the bungalow at the farm....in fact 2, one for the workers is already commencing.

    I figured 5 months of bathing in the river morning and night can come to an end and give them a little luxury.

    For the workers it is a simple 5m x 1.5m bathroom split into 2, toilet and shower sections.

    the shower section we decided upon old fashioned thai style instead of any fancy shower system.

    We have a tin sheet roof, rainwater collects and feeds into a large 2m x 1.5m x 2m tall tank with open top and the overflow from this feeds into a small wash tank beside the main tank. Both have drains and taps etc. This enables us to make use of the rainwater during the wet season and then pump from the river into the large tank once a week during the dry season. To me was the most efficient way to enable both.

    The toilet is concrete rings with the rings sitting underneath one of the toilets walls, this allows a hole in the top of the pit to be able to pump out the shit if ever required.

    Waste water from the shower and washing goes into a drain which runs to a reedbed area on the side of a small incline which drains away to a flat area about 30m from the river.


    As for the other bathroom for the bungalow, I want an efficient and friendly system. At first I was going to setup 1inch black PE pipe on top of the concrete water tank behind the bungalow. But problem here is how do you get the water continualy up to the pipe for solar heating ? It can be delivered by gravity, but I do not want to have another pump just for this.

    And the use of a pump kind of cancels out any good done by using the sun to heat it.

    Any ideas ??
    I like poisoning my neighbours dogs till they die cos I'm a cnut

  2. #2
    Thailand Expat jandajoy's Avatar
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    My mate Smithy in Cairns set up a PE pipe system to heat his pool and spa. I'm pretty sure he worked out a way of doing it without a pump. Thermal dynamics or some such gobbeldy gook. I will enquire.

  3. #3
    Boxed Member
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    Good oh.....

    Please do.

  4. #4
    lom
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    Thailand Expat lom's Avatar
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    Are you gonna keep the warm water in a tank or are you satisfied with the small amount of water stored in the solar collector?

  5. #5
    Thailand Expat jandajoy's Avatar
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    In the meantime have a look at this

    The Integral Passive Solar Water Heater Book

    Solar Water Heating Projects and Plans

    Doug's Thermosyphon Solar Water Heater


    I called Smithy who said, "Google it ya lazy bastard".

    Fair enough, here's an extract from one of the sites above.


    "This works well for a thermosyphon system, as the heated liquid naturally rises, pulling cooler liquid in below. Technically, the cooler denser liquid is heavier, so it is pulled down by gravity, displacing the lighter, hotter liquid, but for simplification, heat rises."
    Last edited by jandajoy; 06-07-2009 at 03:16 PM.

  6. #6
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    yep, amazing....if it works

    often people forget things like viscosity

  7. #7
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    ^ It works.

  8. #8
    Thailand Expat jandajoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy
    often people forget things like viscosity
    Care to expand on that. Sounds interesting.

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    The Dentist English Noodles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nawty
    Waste water from the shower and washing goes into a drain which runs to a reedbed area on the side of a small incline which drains away to a flat area about 30m from the river.
    So any chemicals used just go untreated back in to the water table.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by English Noodles View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nawty
    Waste water from the shower and washing goes into a drain which runs to a reedbed area on the side of a small incline which drains away to a flat area about 30m from the river.
    So any chemicals used just go untreated back in to the water table.
    Not necessarily, swamps and reeds are being used to purify water, don't know much about it, but definitely worth a Google.

    As your near a river, there systems that use the river flow to pump water.

    There are simple systems that use worms to eat shit and make fertilizer. Probably best not to put it on veggies, but should be fine for trees.

  11. #11
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    ^ use the biodegradable stuff and trap it in a little ecosystem to get broken down. Septic overflow combined with grey water is great for tomatoes and most above ground veges. Lots of people are doing it these days.

  12. #12
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    Cant see while a siphon system wouldn't work if the water source is higher than the final outlet.

  13. #13
    Thailand Expat jandajoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panda
    Cant see while a siphon system wouldn't work if the water source is higher than the final outlet.
    But what heats the water for his shower?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panda View Post
    Septic overflow combined with grey water is great for tomatoes and most above ground veges.
    The gray water is probably OK, but I would be wary of the septic overflow. Human shit contains dangerous pathogens. It can be used for organic farming only after having gone through the appropriate breakdown process.

    Probably wouldn't matter too much, except Naughty has kids who might be playing outside.

    Apparently the worm septic system is simple and works well, although it doesn't pass the rules for treatment, it's still considered fairly safe. Friends are using this in central Victoria, I've been meaning to write to them for info.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jandajoy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Panda
    Cant see while a siphon system wouldn't work if the water source is higher than the final outlet.
    But what heats the water for his shower?
    That big firey ball in the sky.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smithson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Panda View Post
    Septic overflow combined with grey water is great for tomatoes and most above ground veges.
    The gray water is probably OK, but I would be wary of the septic overflow. Human shit contains dangerous pathogens. It can be used for organic farming only after having gone through the appropriate breakdown process.

    Probably wouldn't matter too much, except Naughty has kids who might be playing outside.

    Apparently the worm septic system is simple and works well, although it doesn't pass the rules for treatment, it's still considered fairly safe. Friends are using this in central Victoria, I've been meaning to write to them for info.
    If its a sopping mess of seething bacteria that squishes up between your toes when you walk on the ground, then yes, its a real health hazard. But above ground vegetables irrigated via underground seepage is no problem at all.
    People put pig shit, cow shit, sheep shit and chook shit into their vege gardens every day.

    Creating a septic swamp is not a good idea if you have kids around as you point out. But with basic sullage trenches the effluent can be disbursed throughout the topsoil to nourish the veges without hazard. No point wasting all that water and nutrient when it can be turned back into nutritious, delicious clean fresh vegetables.

  17. #17
    Member BKKBILL's Avatar
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    There are quite a few sites on sewer treatment if you just google reed bed sewer treatment. This warm climate should be perfect for sewer treatment. As for heating water that also shouldn't be difficult here.

  18. #18
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    I found a system in a magazine I was flipping through and I am going to make 2 'biodiversifiedintergrated waste systems' (my name) and see how they work, as usual though the diagrams leave out some specific info.


    Anyway, re the hot water, the black pipe will be on top of a 6m water tank. So the issue is getting the water up to that level where it will be heated very quickly by the sun in the pipe. Gravity from up there down to the bathroom is not a problem. Getting it up there is, doubt the thermal flow, or hot water rises technique would lift it that high all alone. Would love it to, but doubt it.

    Doodles.....no chemicals to go into the system as far as 'blu loo' and that type, onmly soaps and shampoos etc and it will be treated through the above mentioned sytem.....if it works.

    have to make my own 'Holy Grail' pipe though (my name)

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panda
    If its a sopping mess of seething bacteria that squishes up between your toes when you walk on the ground, then yes, its a real health hazard. But above ground vegetables irrigated via underground seepage is no problem at all. People put pig shit, cow shit, sheep shit and chook shit into their vege gardens every day. Creating a septic swamp is not a good idea if you have kids around as you point out. But with basic sullage trenches the effluent can be disbursed throughout the topsoil to nourish the veges without hazard. No point wasting all that water and nutrient when it can be turned back into nutritious, delicious clean fresh vegetables
    I will scan the diagram I found in a mag recently and post. i will also scan and post my hand drawn sketch of what I am planning to do for my biodiversifiedwathcamacallit and if anyone has any specific diagrams on the construction of such, please post.

    I shall be doing the first one within the month and the second one the following month. So trial and error with the first.

    I will be planting some vegies and things on top, so this mag recommends various deep and shallow rooted plants which do a good job of conversion etc....but then does not mention any names or show pics....sheesh

  20. #20
    DaffyDuck
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    This has all the making of an incredible amount of entertainment down the road, but, regardless:

    Google 'Hydraulic Ram Pumps' - or at the risk that you don't know how to use 'Teh Google' :

    Hydraulic ram pumps and Sling Pumps

    If you have a stream, or spring, or some kind of moving or falling water, this will do the trick for you to move water up onto your roof area.

    Of course, there's easier ways to create a hydrothermal circuit, but that would go beyond this thread..

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jandajoy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy
    often people forget things like viscosity
    Care to expand on that. Sounds interesting.

    viscosity is liquid friction, essentially, so if you want to move water through tubes you have to use some sort of energy to overcome it

    whilst hot water will rise and create a flow in a tank, it is more difficult for that flow to impel water through tubes
    I have reported your post

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panda View Post
    No point wasting all that water and nutrient when it can be turned back into nutritious, delicious clean fresh vegetables.
    That really sums it up, so much of what we view as waste is actually a resource.

    There is a village in India where all their shit goes into a tank, the gas released is used for cooking and after fermentation the shit becomes fertilizers. Animal manures can also be added.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nawty View Post


    Anyway, re the hot water, the black pipe will be on top of a 6m water tank. So the issue is getting the water up to that level where it will be heated very quickly by the sun in the pipe. Gravity from up there down to the bathroom is not a problem. Getting it up there is, doubt the thermal flow, or hot water rises technique would lift it that high all alone. Would love it to, but doubt it.
    Here's an interesting concept. Capillary attraction
    Maybe worth some investigation if you have the time and energy.

    Solar Water Still and Pump




    When I read that a willow tree transpires hundreds of litres of water every day, I began to see trees as solar-powered water pumps.


    If we could copy nature's design and collect the evaporating water, we could have pure water from marshy or even contaminated soils.
    This is a drawing of a model of the "solar water plant". This cylindrical model was built to show that the principle works, but a flat design is more practical (please see the notes below).
    This first model was built on April 6, 2003 in Victoria, Canada

  24. #24
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    Keep it coming.....not enough time lately for me to be researching on the net for any of it. Need several hours to sit and read, internet cafes suck for that.

    Daffney is beyond this thread.....so lets just let him drift..

  25. #25
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    So....would this work ?? Any engineering types out there.

    The cold water needs to be connected also, forgot to draw that.

    Problem i have is getting it to flow, from what I have read the thermal movement can actually move the hot water on its own some reasonable distance, so may give it a go.


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