The Thailand expat forum for Travel, Lifestyle and Fun.

dirtydog

So not only do you want him to build it for you, you want him to finance it as well and also be a quantity surveyor for your material orders, damn thats one hell of a guy you have found, especially as he also doesn't need plans or anything like that, maybe time to rethink what you expect from this guy.

__________________

wanna

hi DD

4. nope havent found him yet
5. yes i have architect plans currently, but not foundation and shop drawings
1. have to find the right guy
2,3. this part i'm not so sure whether it's the norm in thailand. for 2. maybe you could advise if some sort of deposit before commencement is the norm? for 3. whether the contractor should do some sort of cross-checking to ensure the amount of material calculated is adequate, even when he has the BOQ?

thanks

splitlid

dear wanna, i think you really need to start from the beginning.
firstly you need to get your archiect to sort out all the issues with your drawings, and supply you with the foundations and beams/columns etc. that will then be a 'full set' of working drawings.
without these the builder cannot build the house!!! (well he may, but it will be wrong).

secondly you need a boq, this can either come from you architect, or your builder.
your builder may not give you a boq, especially as you are a labour only job.
so you may have to do it yourself!!!!
i know, i know, seems daunting doesnt it, but it is possible. start today by working out how many sqm of blocks you will need. post ya answer here.

dirtydog

Why should he check what materials you need when it is you that will be ordering them, if we reckon thats 15 hours work per week working out material orders etc why should he waste his time doing that when his time can be more profitably spent actually running the site?

I don't no of any Thai contractor that will start building a house without a deposit, I am sure there must be some, you will find a few of the big farang building companies will start work without deposits etc, obviously their profit margins are higher so they can afford to do this, to start the job is just land clearing and digging holes, a bit of cement, some wood and a few blocks, so the initial deposit is only a small amount anyway, if the contractor was paying for materials I would say give him a down payment of 40k baht and with that he also gets the first delivery of rebar in for the girls to start putting together, next payment will be for more rebar and shuttering and the cement pours so probably another 40k baht would be needed.

wanna

hi splitlid

1. for wallstones, i need 15m x 4m x 4 walls = 240m2

2. similar amount for red bricks, but to get the number of red bricks, i have to find out the lateral surface area of each brick. then use 240m2 to divide by the surface area to get the number of bricks needed

3. for floor area, aproximately 225m2 x 2(both storeys) = 450m2 of sandstone/marble/granite

these are i think the superficial parts.

1. more important is the m3 of sand, cement, stone.
2. plus the length of water pipes with the associated number of t and u joints.
3 and of course the rebar

pls mark my answers

thanks

splitlid

dont forget your internal walls

but you seem to be doing pretty well so far.
see, that didnt take long, now finish up before recess.

wanna

hi DD

what you said about the contractor spending additional hours to work out the boq is true.

so i reckon in negotiation for the labour only price, to include the boq calculation together.

the thing is to be upfront and not surprise the contractor later with the boq request when prices have already been agreed upon

there is of course, the distinction between thai and farang contractor as you rightly pointed out. so i guess tiscar was referring to farang contractor while i meant thai contractor.

so to whether a thai contractor will accept no deposit for labour only(i buy all materials), i guess it will depend on the individual contractor and negotiation skills

wanna

i think a teacher, besides providing encouragement, should also provide the answers from time to time

internal walls are red bricks

dirtydog

Why are you worrying about how much sand you may need? It's the cheapest thing you will be buying, you are buying the materials so you have to sort out where they will be kept and work out how much sand will be soiled from dirt contamination, ie a 10 wheel truck full of sand starts at 3,000 odd baht, where will you put it? How much will be in contact with the dirt? How much wastage will you have as dirt isn't a good mixer for concrete, once you work out how you will order and store sand then an amount can be worked out, sand doesn't neatly stack into piles like bricks and blocks do, will you put something down on the dirt to protect the sand, maybe a small concreted area for the sand, these are things you have to work out as you are buying the materials.

splitlid

ok here ya go, some of mine are wrong as ive done it for modeling purpose only, but close enough

wanna

hi DD

generally i worry about all things that remain unquantifiable. storage of materials is something i worry about, ie as to how big to build the shed so that materials can be stored optimally.

the part about sand i had not thought about contamination as this is my 1st build..so that comes in useful.

now this is one question i will have to resolve with the contractor, ie to build a shed large enough to hold all the cement, sand and stone in 1 order, or to split up the orders to be used on a jit basis.

this will largely depends on the experience of the contractor and a balance between the additional transport costs of repeated trips vs cost savings derived from materials ordering in a single order

of course this all sounds pretty nice in theory, but in practice i realise there are significant tradeoffs to be made

wanna

hi splitlid

could i use some of the details below for foundations, footings and beams with little or no modification?

splitlid

wanna,
take the advise you have been given here, and that is to get your beams/foundations etc done specific for your job.using someone elses foundations for a completely different house is not adviseable.
for the small amount of money it costs to do will be well worth it in the future.
wanna-'oh i saved 10,000 baht by copying the foundations from someone else'
lawyer-'oh so thats why the place has fallen down'
(lawyer has been employed to find out who is at fault for the house falling down)

wanna

yes this is good advice.

do you think we can discuss something privately for the foundation/shop drawings/boq, nothingwithstanding your stand in the other thread?

hehe

splitlid

sorry mate, wont do it.
whats wrong with your architect doing it for you?

wanna

i think he wont be as detailed as you.

is actual surveying of the land your only hesitation in taking over the job?

because anyway the structural engineer will be specing from bkk without ever seeing the land.

if it's professional pride, then i dont understand but will respect

if it's too messy, then i understand

dirtydog

The shed would have to be bigger than your house you will be building if you order in one hit.

splitlid

all of the above
seriously, i only touch my own stuff, that way i can guarantee that all is correct.
taking on someones work makes that guarantee void in my eyes, which has potential for all sorts of problems.

wanna

yup i thought it would be so

wanna

yes it's very messy.