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dirtydog

This thread really isn't about different ways to get hot water, it is about electric shower heaters and thats about it, most expats rent or lease properties that are already built so don't have the option of getting solar water heaters installed, ie smashing out everything to run copper pipes from the roofs to the bathrooms and that.

Next thread will be about electric bath water heaters and sink water heaters

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Loy Toy

Fairly nuff mate!

It's your show, carry on and I can't wait for the kitchen sink water heater thread!

dirtydog

Bath and sink water heaters are generally one and the same beast, ie they work on water flow where as shower units turn on when there is water pressue, can't find any exciting pictures of bath water heaters at the moment on my hard drives

mikehunt

It doesn't matter how many wires you see. In Thailand, a third wire may well connect to nothing or connect to a rawl plug in concrete. This is NOT an earth.

No. Thai Standards do not have any installation requirements regarding domestic electrical items (I've searched them high & low) & as well as that, there are no standards for domestic installations. There are standards on certain products but these standards do not relate to the installation of such products.

In a country such as Thailand, it bewilders me why people bother to buy hot water heaters when solar power is not only abundant but also incredibly cheap. I have a friend in Klaeng (between Rayong & Chantaburi) & he lazily insists upon using hot water heaters. Why? Because he thinks that he won't save much at all. I've tried explaining to him that he will pay NOTHING for hot water (& I mean HOT water...60 degrees plus), if he goes solar.

The "built-in" earth leakage breaker for these hot water units cannot be seen. What type of RCB is it? What is it's trip time? What is the trip current?
I would never trust a "built-in" RCD. On the other hand, I would spend the money & have a proper RCD unit installed just for that particular heating unit. This device needs to have the following;

a] a trip time of no more than 20mS (20 milli seconds).
b] a maximum trip current of 30 mA (30 milli amps).

These things should NOT be adjustable.

An earth wire is good but an RCD is better.

Just remember, an RCD (an earth leakage device) is NOT the ultimate protection. The ULTIMATE protection is to have your whole installation properly earthed AND use RCD's.

I'll post some pictures of things soon.

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Oh for fucks sake! Get a life & stop trying to fuck mine up!

dirtydog

I don't like the earth leakage breakers in the shower units, nobody ever checks them to see if they will work, they are in an area of soap and shampoo, it wouldn't take much build up of soap or shampoo to block the breaker from being able to trip, only got to look how much congealed soap collects in your soap dish each week and what a pain it is to clean out, shower unit up for 10 years is gonna collect some.

mikehunt

I've just taken some photos of my heater etc. I'll post them in a bout 30 minutes & explain a few things. Sang Som comes first

americanmade

fact...these are Outlawed in many country's ..not due too the faulty wiring but their actual bombs that temps can expand water til the small water holding reservoir explodes ...(if a thermostat sticks and bring water to certain levels)...theirs no temp release valve on such units shown in photo above. In all hopes this is connected to a GFI breaker of some sort to protect from shocking..

But again its Thailand ..nothing is a surprise

dirtydog

I never ever saw them in the UK, but I have bought some units here in Thailand that were supposedly made in the UK, so they were either fake or they do use them in the UK, or maybe manufacture there for export, can't imagine these would be allowed in the UK.

mikehunt

Here's my instantaneous hot water heater. It's a Mazuma MIS-45 (4.5kW). The web address is »ÃÐÇѵԤÇÒÁà»ç¹ÁҢͧºÃÔÉÑ· MAZUMA

The first 2 pics are of my water heater.





The below pic is about the "ELCB".

Sorry about the poor quality pics but the writing says, "Warranty 2 years. Heater made in UK. ELCB Breaker."

This pic below shows the "earth" wire, which is black.



The pic below is of the cables going into/out of the Distribution Board (DB) in the Electrical Riser on my floor (12th floor). There are no signs of an earth cable/earth cables. There is, however, one cable that is sheathed in green sleeving. I don't know where this goes & no other cables seem to connect to it inside the DB. Therefore, there is not an effective earth for my hot water unit.



In Thailand, which has a disastrous mixture of both American & European electrical standards, the wiring colour code can be confusing.
In some cases, it follows the American method...black = hot (live/active), white/grey = neutral. For the European standards, an active/live/hot can be red, white, yellow, blue, or brown. Earth is always green or green with a yellow stripe.

One of the biggest problems (with single phase installations) in Thailand is that live/neutral polarity is not checked & in many cases not observed. If these 2 wires are incorrectly connected, someone can die very easily.


BTW, "ELCB" stands for Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker. Technically, these devices were voltage dependant & were to a great degree, unreliable. They have since been replaced with RCD's (Residual Current Devices), which act in a totally different manner to ELCB's. The problem is that many people still incorrectly describe RCD's as being ELCB's.

DrAndy

that would be strange, as the thermostat would not need to work if the water was not flowing. It is only when the water flows that the heater switches on, then the thermostat operates to control the temperature. So both of those controls would need to fail at the same time. i.e. the pressure switch would need to tell the heater to switch on, even though the water is not flowing, then the thermostat would need to fail. Even then, there is an overheating switch that would cut the electrics, and a breaker for bad earthing

hmmmm

yes, the ELCB is made in the UK, not the whole heater

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keep 'em coming

dirtydog

I don't think these shower heaters have a thermostat as such, ie working on certain temps, if I press the pressure switch on one it will boil the water regardless of whether it is on 1 or 6, min or max.

Marmite the Dog

So did I. Some grumpy English bloke turned up and botched a repair...

Fabian

I used to have one of those in my old apartment. It wasn't even installed in the bathroom but under the kitchen sink.
So why even install them in the bathroom if you want to be safe?

DrAndy

no, he couldn't fix it, so he then called the expert

grumpy, maybe


anyway, in my CM house I have a multipoint heater which serves two showers and the kitchen. It operates on a pressure switch, so when the hot tap is turned on, the heater starts too

unfortunately it does not provide enough hot water for two showers at once, but is a lot safer as it is nowhere near the water splashing areas

Spin

Maybe, but if there is an internal problem the water in the pipe will conduct the shock to the person showering.
I would know, i got an electric shock the other day, I was cooking using one of these electric woks which i had washed earlier and must have got some water inside which had shorted and made the cooking area live.
I actually got the shock through a stream of coconut milk i was pouring from a box into the wok.

dirtydog

The odds are it operates on flow not pressure, the taps are after the heater so there is always pressure in the heater.

HINO

Dirtydog, is that the major difference between the 2 types of heaters? The single point use a pressure switch to turn on the heater and the multi-points use a flow switch?

I have been trying to get an answer to this on another forum but so far no one seems to know.

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If you take the time to do the job right the first time you won't need to "find" the time to go back a second time

HINO

dirtydog

The single point shower heaters work on pressure, there is a small diaphragm that when you turn the tap on the water then goes into the shower creating pressure which pushes the diaphragm out which then trips the switch to power up the heater, ie if your tap was after a shower water there would be pressure in the heater all the time so the heater would be on all the time boiling up what little water there is held in the tank.

Mr R Sole

Tight bastards just didn't wanna pay the compo' 'land of the free' my rectum!!!

As for the showers..just ask a Thai about a band called 'Potato' one of their guys died in a shower BUUUUUZZZZZZ

Humbert

Always, I repeat always let the retailer you buy the unit from install it. Home Pro usually has a unit on promotion that includes installation. Or you can contract the installation with them for a moderate fee. The installers always install a ground fault interrupter.
Do not let Somchai or some local poo lap mau
install it or there will certainly be problems.