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Construction in Thailand Is building in Thailand as bad as it seems? Can properties really be built and fitted out to European standards? Would you like to Build your own house in Phuket, or a swimming pool in Bangkok? Solar water heating in Pattaya? Or maybe you want to build a resort or guesthouse on Koh Samui? If you want to build a luxury house in Thailand then this is the forum for you.

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Old 20-03-2009, 06:30 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lom View Post
^ And your problem is?
You get tired of sucking?

That....and after the water comes rushing down 3m you get a lung full of the crap everytime.
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Old 20-03-2009, 08:30 PM   #52 (permalink)
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^ There must be something entirely wrong in your system, normally you wouldn't have to suck in order to get water down.
It usually flows down by itself..
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Old 20-03-2009, 10:15 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thetyim
There should be a drain plug at the bottom of the tank
That sounds easier. I shall get on me hands and knees tomorrow.
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Old 20-03-2009, 10:22 PM   #54 (permalink)
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^
No need to thank me
All part of the TD service
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Old 20-03-2009, 10:42 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thetyim
There should be a drain plug at the bottom of the tank
That sounds easier. I shall get on me hands and knees tomorrow.
It's on the opposite side of the outlet.
But the the pump seems to be very close to the house wall so it may be a bit difficult to access the plug. (stupid placement of the pump, it should have been turned 90 degrees)

Your other option is to show what a good plumber you are and install a T and a valve somewhere between the outlet and the house valve.
Makes it easier to drain the pump in the future.
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Old 20-03-2009, 10:47 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lom
But the the pump seems to be very close to the house wall so it may be a bit difficult to access the plug. (stupid placement of the pump, it should have been turned 90 degrees)
It's the garden wall actually, and is a fairly logical place to put it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lom
Your other option is to show what a good plumber you are and install a T and a valve somewhere between the outlet and the house valve.
I ain't a plumber.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lom
Makes it easier to drain the pump in the future.
I probably won't be here for over a year or so, so I don't care.
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Old 20-03-2009, 10:52 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thetyim View Post
I concur with Lom
He understands how the pump works.
The motor does not directly pump water into the house.
It is the compressed air which does it.

There should be a drain plug at the bottom of the tank
I always use that to empty the tank
Don't quite know why I'm doing this as Marmite gave me such a warm response in my repo before, but actually that's not entirely true, there is an inflated bladder within the pressure tank that maintains the air pressure required for it to operate and this bladder is separate from the rest of the water it is compressed by the pump filling the tank around it with water. The air in the bladder is contained and separate from the water and there should not be any air in the system...

Most higher quality tanks have a Schroeder valve that allows for increases and decreases in that bladder pressure but I would not monkey with that air pressure it is preset from the factory and except for expansion and contraction over time stretching the bladder the pressure won't vary much unless it is punctured ..The valve is there mostly just to fill the bladder externally after manufacture and to test later to determine if the bladder is still inflated and not punctured.

If the pump is producing air through a failed shaft seal or something such as cavitation (a common problem here in Thailand as most pumps are never plumbed to spec causing them to strain for water) within the tank around this bladder then the pump will run on as it is trying to compress air instead of water which is more compressible and not water which is less compressible.. Actually this is a problem whenever the mains are shut off and your pump has to pull hard for water or the main then comes on and puts air into the system, the system is supposed to self bleed though that is why the effluent pipe is on the top of the pump but if it is producing too much air that won't happen effectively.. I see a check valve on the effluent side, this might be part of the problem if isn't working properly hard to tell from an internet forum especially with such a cluster fck of piping....

Thus the pump will actually heat up the water in the pump head as the air trapped in the system will never compress to the calibration of the (fluid) pressure switch because it is calibrated for water pressure and not air pressure which requires much higher compression rates to shut off the switch..

When it eventually overheats the water in the pump head, the high temp safety sensor shuts it off instead of the pressure switch and then when that happens it needs to cool off before you can get any water unless you cool it manually or else it will take several minutes to cool by itself as it gets quite hot..

if the high temp switch has been doing this for any length of time previously the system it will eventually get over sensitive and shut off very quickly giving the appearance of short cycling..

Last edited by DrivingForce : 20-03-2009 at 11:08 PM.
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Old 20-03-2009, 10:56 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog
I ain't a plumber.
Don't let that stop you!
Neither am I but we are in a country where the chances of doing a better job than the locals are in our favour.
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Old 21-03-2009, 02:13 AM   #59 (permalink)
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you know best..


Replacing A Pressure Tank On A Residential Water Well System

virtually identical article to what I said..
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Old 21-03-2009, 08:56 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrivingForce
Don't quite know why I'm doing this as Marmite gave me such a warm response in my repo before, but actually that's not entirely true, there is an inflated bladder within the pressure tank that maintains the air pressure required for it to operate and this bladder is separate from the rest of the water it is compressed by the pump filling the tank around it with water. The air in the bladder is contained and separate from the water and there should not be any air in the system...
From your link:

A pressure tank can be as simple as a big metal chamber with one hole in the bottom for water to flow into. As the pump pushes water in, the air in the tank is compressed. At some point, called the cut-out pressure, a switch interrupts the power to the pump and no more water enters the tank. Since there is compressed air above the water, there is enough force acting on the liquid to push it out of the tank, through the pipes, and all the way upstairs (possibly several flights of stairs) to the faucet.
But... there is a flaw with this simple design. Air can be dissolved in water, believe it or not. Eventually a simple tank with compressed air above the water will experience a loss of this compressed air. So the air space above the water gets smaller day by day. What you notice is that the pump will run for very short periods, perhaps 5 or 10 seconds, and do this frequently whenever water is being drawn.

A proper well pressure tank does not use a simple empty steel can, it uses a flexible bladder or bag inside the tank, with the bottom of the bag pointing to the bottom of the tank. The bladder occupies a portion of the total tank volume. The steel tank contains compressed air. The operation is the same as the plain tank example above, but the bladder keeps the water separated from the air. The air never meets the water, so the air does not become dissolved in the water. The tank never needs to be charged with air, unless the fill valve (which is like a tire valve) leaks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrivingForce
I have more than 20 years experience in all aspects of this field if you didn't want real experienced advice then why waste time posting up a thread about it then??
Those 20 years of experience is worth nothing if you don't understand the difference between tanks with and without bladders.
The instruction for draining the tank is how I remember it from the paper included with the pump.
I have them somewhere but don't need to verify the procedure - I' am doing it that way and that is for a reason.
The reason being that I once read that paper and I am quite sure I have got it right.
That procedure wouldn't help much on a bladder tank so obviously this is a simple tank. The price of the pump also gives that away.

Now, why don't you spend some time on redesigning your website instead of spouting shit here..
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Old 21-03-2009, 09:57 AM   #61 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lom
Now, why don't you spend some time on redesigning your website instead of spouting shit here..
Totally agree
That tank does not have a bladder fitted.
Something I learnt after one years experience.

Maybe I shouldn't mention 'automatic air intake device'
Don't want to embarass him further
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Old 21-03-2009, 10:12 AM   #62 (permalink)
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Well, I have searched high & low for anything resembling a screw or valve on the lower red tank casing and the only thing on it is a blanking plate covering the hole for a pipe on the back.

Is this what I have to use to drain it? Damn awkward place if it is, as it is up against the wall.
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Old 21-03-2009, 10:33 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Anyway that you can open anything with the water shut off to be able to drain the water from the tank and let air in to replace it will be OK, if you can just open a valve that is lower than the tank will do it, just so the water in the tank can be replaced with air.
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Old 21-03-2009, 10:37 AM   #64 (permalink)
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Maybe have to loosen the flange where the water comes from the tank into the pipe will drain the tank, but might also ruin the gasket there too.
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Old 21-03-2009, 10:45 AM   #65 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog
Is this what I have to use to drain it? Damn awkward place if it is, as it is up against the wall.
Leave it then if it is in an awkward place or you might get a leak there.
Just open the lowest tap/faucet you have and hope it's low enough to let air in
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Old 21-03-2009, 10:48 AM   #66 (permalink)
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leave it. It only a mickey mouse pump after all. What a kerfuffle you're creating over a pump that still works ok.
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Old 21-03-2009, 10:48 AM   #67 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thetyim
Just open the lowest tap/faucet you have and hope it's low enough to let air in
Nae chance. They're all at least a metre above the pump.
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Old 21-03-2009, 11:46 AM   #68 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog
Damn awkward place if it is, as it is up against the wall.
So if they had turned the pump 90 degrees then it would have been easier?
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Old 21-03-2009, 11:51 AM   #69 (permalink)
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Alternatively, turn the house 90 degrees.
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Old 22-03-2009, 07:02 AM   #70 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lom
So if they had turned the pump 90 degrees then it would have been easier?
No.

..
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Old 22-03-2009, 08:24 AM   #71 (permalink)
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also drain the water out of the buffer tank as some times you lose your air pocket and will cause the pump to kick on and off all the time. also check your pressure regulater switch as they can fok up
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Old 22-03-2009, 08:51 AM   #72 (permalink)
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get a new pump, a blue, round one
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Old 22-03-2009, 11:44 AM   #73 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrAndy
get a new pump, a blue, round one
And replace all the plumbing. From the pic you posted there are plenty of indications you might be sucking air into the system at one of the many PVC joints or around the gaskets. Trying to isolate and fix your problem is likely an exercise in futility and expect will only last for a bit before another problem comes up.
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Old 22-03-2009, 12:09 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackgang View Post
Anyway that you can open anything with the water shut off to be able to drain the water from the tank and let air in to replace it will be OK, if you can just open a valve that is lower than the tank will do it, just so the water in the tank can be replaced with air.
yeah do this and stand in a puddle while your doing it let us know how that turns out for ya? that is, bare none about the most ignorant advice any breathing, thinking human being could make..
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Old 22-03-2009, 12:14 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norton
From the pic you posted there are plenty of indications you might be sucking air into the system at one of the many PVC joints or around the gaskets.
you're right the plumbing is crap, but if he had any air leaks in the system since the system is a closed system at any time the pump was off it would leak water as the entire system is under pressure...the pictures don't show any of that..
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