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  1. #1
    Thailand Expat jandajoy's Avatar
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    Grounding kitchen stuff

    We're getting quite a collection of electrical stuff in our kitchen in the shed. To date there's 2 large fridges, a chest freezer, the new stove and a washing machine.

    So far only the stove and the washing machine have bitten us but, given health and safety concerns, we've decided that grounding might be a good idea.

    I'd suggested stout rubber boots for her, and me not touching anything in the kitchen, ever, but she didn't feel that was really the answer.

    So, the sparky is called.

    He turned up at 6 last night, fell through the front door and was picked up by his 2 mates. All 3 then fell over. They'd had a full day.

    Having escorted all 3 off the premises with promises of telephone calls in the morning, I was having second thoughts. Still, we called him this morning and he said he'd be here at 5 this evening and sober.

    They work as I type. The question I ask is are they going over the top a bit. The only ground wire, type work I've ever done was attaching 6 foot lightning rods to the top of microwave towers.

    Our faithful sparky is currently hammering 7 foot copper rods into the ground.

    He's putting in 3 and then earthing the various machines to them. We'd already got 1 so it's 4 in all. 2 fridges going to one, freezer separate as is stove and washing machine.

    Cost, BHT 1,000 all inclusive.

    Photos to follow, and if any of you experts have any comments to make please feel free.

    im grounded,
    Last edited by jandajoy; 04-02-2009 at 06:25 PM.

  2. #2
    Have you got any cheese Thetyim's Avatar
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    Way too much but let him continue if it's only 1000 baht

  3. #3
    lom
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    Thailand Expat lom's Avatar
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    Yes let him continue
    Normally you should only have one copper rod but I'd say that 4 is better than nothing.
    Don't let him bury the rod completly though, not even if he wants to pour cement over it as a cover.
    It should stick up around 5 cm so you can see the connection between the wire and the rod.
    Should be covered with self-vulcing tape, making it easy to open and inspect the connection every second year or so.
    May the bridges I burn light my way

  4. #4
    Thailand Expat jandajoy's Avatar
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    Stuff to keep cool



    to keep clean



    Sparky number 1. He's called Phillip and that's his shirt.



    Sparky number 2. With his rod of copper.




    Safety shoes are important ^

    Final photo of the crochet queen of Chang Kong. (note crohetted things on fridge doors.)



    So there you have it.

    pip pip.

  5. #5
    Thailand Expat jandajoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lom
    Normally you should only have one copper rod but I'd say that 4 is better than nothing.
    How's that work then?
    I don't doubt what you're saying but does it make any difference?
    Could he have run everything on to one rod?

  6. #6
    lom
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    You are risking to get small voltage differences between your safety ground points, normally one does only do a single point.
    But that is a minor problem which I think you shouldn't pay too much attention to, it is much more important that all your machines with a 3-pin plug is safety grounded somehow even if it is not 100% according to regulations.

    I think it is more important that he doesn't bury the ground rods completely.

  7. #7
    Thailand Expat jandajoy's Avatar
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    This is great, I've got the blokes looking at this post and they say you need to have the ground rod well bedded in as lightning might strike it !

  8. #8
    lom
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    They know fokk nothing..
    Ask him what electrical education he has, which school he went to

  9. #9
    disturbance in the Turnip baldrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jandajoy
    (note crohetted things on fridge doors.)
    would that be so you didn't get a boot opening the door ?

    I would place the ground rod below the ground level but also dug around it and place a 6 inch piece of 200 mm diameter PVC pipe ti stop the walls falling in and put a dinky metal cover on it - it will keep the end from being kicked and also create a little reservoir which will collect water when it rains and seep into the ground where your earth stake is to add moisture and help the conductivity,


    Quote Originally Posted by lom
    You are risking to get small voltage differences between your safety ground points, normally one does only do a single point.
    if the connections inside go to 1 earth bar the multiple grounds should be pretty well at the same potential and also aid in the earth path back to the main transformer ( if the trannie is actually earthed )

  10. #10
    Have you got any cheese Thetyim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jandajoy
    This is great, I've got the blokes looking at this post and they say you need to have the ground rod well bedded in as lightning might strike it !
    Complete bollocks.
    If lightning hits your roof then it will probably go to earth through your copper rods whether they are sunken or not.

    So you need them sticking up so that you can inspect them for damage occasionally

  11. #11
    Thailand Expat jandajoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldrick
    I would place the ground rod below the ground level but also dug around it and place a 6 inch piece of 200 mm diameter PVC pipe ti stop the walls falling in and put a dinky metal cover on it
    That's pretty much what they've done. Good.

  12. #12
    Thailand Expat jandajoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldrick
    would that be so you didn't get a boot opening the door
    Mate, I have absolutely no idea.

    I was away for two weeks and when I got picked up at the CR airport the ute has been covered in mauve crocheted things. Go with the flow I say.

  13. #13
    Thailand Expat jandajoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thetyim
    Complete bollocks. If lightning hits your roof then it will probably go to earth through your copper rods whether they are sunken or not.
    I'm sure you're right but they're nice blokes, and they guarantee to pay back the 1000 bht if Joy gets killed whilst I'm away.

  14. #14
    lom
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldrick
    if the connections inside go to 1 earth bar
    Ever been to Thailand?
    The reason for them to put in so many ground rods is that they put one as close as possible to the outlet it is gonna serve.

    You can have a multi-point safety ground system but that usually means that you are connecting all the rods together at ground level (soil level) with big gauge wire.

  15. #15
    RIP
    blackgang's Avatar
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    If your house was wired correctly, one ground rod close to your main panel would be enough, the panel would have the ground lug connected to the rod with a copper clamp that looks like a cable clamp and is like material to the rod and wire so no electrolysis action in that connection and it should be above ground so you can check it if you want.
    Then all switches and plug in boxes and connection points would be ran thru the 3 rd wire back to the main panel
    Every breaker in that panel would also be connected to the grounding lug as would all wires from the panel would also be connected to that lug, usually they have many holes in them with a screw to fix the wire tight with.
    But as has been stated here fix a wire to what ever appliance you want to ground and run that wire with your other grounding wires to a common hole in the wall and drive a rod and hook em up and then go to another group, better to have more rods and less wires strung around to get broken off or some other shit.
    Also on most of the appliance cabinets you will also see a "earthing lug", run a wire from that bastard too, never hurts as they are on there for a reason that is unknown here,

  16. #16
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    Look at where elect comes from.....the neutral is also the earth of a Power Station, so that is how we make an earth between the 3 phases.

    let them make as many earth rods they want, also see if they can link them - as we say in Yorkshire, Belt & Braces

  17. #17
    Thailand Expat jandajoy's Avatar
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    Well thanks for all that folks.

    Concluding the work we all got pissed on my orange/coffee grog. Happy days.!!!

  18. #18
    Thailand Expat jandajoy's Avatar
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    pissed as good night all.

    no shocks o0ff thye stuff.

    which is nice.

  19. #19
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    A doc that I wrote about 2 or so years ago, for a Thailand forum;



    The Main Earth.
    Earthing is critical & crucial for the safety of any domestic electrical installation.

    1. What is ‘Earthing’?

    Quite simply, it is the installation of electrical conductors that facilitate the common connection of the ‘exposed’ conductive parts (metal parts) of any electrical equipment. ‘Exposed’ means ‘able to be contacted directly or indirectly, by a human.

    In a Domestic installation, earthing is facilitated by having only one (1) Main Earth Rod, which is buried direct into the ground. A copper conductor is then connected from this Main Earth Rod to the Main Earth Bar inside the Main Distribution Board. All other GPO (power point) & lighting circuit earth wires are then connected to the Main Earth Bar. Not withstanding this, it is imperative that all ‘metal’ clad appliances have an earth wire connecting them to the earthing system via the GPO. If these appliances are not properly earthed via the GPO, you may as well not have an earthing system at all. More than one (1) Main Earth Rod can be dangerous unless they are spaced from each other correctly. The distance of each earth rod should not exceed 1.5 metres. Consequently, countries like Australia only permit one (1) Main Earth Rod per building. (There are exceptions & they pertain to High Voltage installations).

    2. The Earth Rod.

    This is typically a minimum of 10mm diameter & is either pure ‘electrical grade’ copper (minimum 98% pure copper) or a copper sheath around a steel rod. The ‘copper sheath around a steel rod’ is the preferred Earth Rod as is can tolerate lots of hammering into the ground without bending easily. If you can’t buy this type of Earth Rod, make sure that your pure copper rod is at least 12.5mm in diameter (it won’t bend as easy as 10mm diameter pure copper will).
    The Main Earth Rod should be a minimum length of 1.5 metres but 2 metres is better. It should be driven into the ground to such a depth that a minimum of 100mm of the rod is exposed. Ideally, the rod should be in a location out of the sun & where it can’t be easily damaged by anything. It is also critical that the Main Earth Rod be accessible at all times. It is not essential that the earth rod be buried into a water table. This is a myth but of course, if the area in which it is buried is always moist, it will help the earthing system.

    3. Connecting the Main Earth Conductor to the Main Earth Rod.

    For the sake of general safety, the Main Earth conductor (the wire from the earth rod to the Main Earth Bar) should be at least 4mm2 in size. But generally, if you want to cover yourself for any future expansion, I believe that this conductor should be 10mm2…the bigger the better.
    Believe it or not, the preferred method for connecting the Main Earth conductor to the Earth Rod is NOT soldering. Unless the solder used is 60/40 solder, the connection could become faulty in a short matter of time. The preferred method of connection is with a clamp. This clamp is specially designed for such a connection but I’m not sure if it is available in Thailand. Be sure to thoroughly clean the copper with steel wool or similar, before making this connection. In either case, the connection should be painted with an Acrylic based paint to protect it from oxidisation.
    Oh for fucks sake! Get a life & stop trying to fuck mine up!

  20. #20
    disturbance in the Turnip baldrick's Avatar
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    now you need an earth leakage breaker in your switchboard

    Quote Originally Posted by lom
    Ever been to Thailand?
    ?

    and the rods will be just copper plated.

  21. #21
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    mikehunt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldrick View Post
    now you need an earth leakage breaker in your switchboard

    Quote Originally Posted by lom
    Ever been to Thailand?
    ?

    and the rods will be just copper plated.
    Copper plated is no good. The Main Earth Rod should be;

    a] a rod of pure copper or,
    b] a copper cladded steel rod (copper is usually at least 1mm thick).

    If a copper plated rod is used (not permitted in places like Australia & the UK), the plating quickly gives way to corrosion & the metal beneath the plating also quickly corrodes.

    DO NOT use "adjustable" Earth Leakage Circuit Breakers. Earth Leakage Circuit Breakers should be placed on individual circuits & should be 30mA maximum trip (at 20mS).

    If you wish to have an Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker as your Main Switch, it should be rated at no less than 100mA.

  22. #22
    lom
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldrick
    Quote: Originally Posted by lom Ever been to Thailand?
    Yes I know that you are here but you are naively assuming that Jandajoy's house has an earth bar, ie a decent distribution panel.
    And that in a country where most electricians only knows roughly what safety ground is but they are sure it is a waste of cable and not needed in Thailand.

    That they are using 4 ground rods tells all about how they are wiring it up.

    My main house was wired by a Thai electrician and I've had to redo most of it.
    The water heater in 2nd floor bathroom was safety grounded to a piece of rebar sticking up from one of the concrete columns..

  23. #23
    Thailand Expat jandajoy's Avatar
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    we ain't dead yet......

  24. #24
    On a walkabout
    Loy Toy's Avatar
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    Hello mate!

    I remember some time ago you commented about your computer biting you or at least your tower (electric shock)!

    Well I think it was you anyway and if it was has it fixed the problem?

  25. #25
    Thailand Expat jandajoy's Avatar
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    you're right I was getting a few tingles. That seemed to have cured itself. These things often do.

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