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  1. #1
    Member JuniorExPat's Avatar
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    I need water storage and pressurisation - any chance of a Dummies guide?

    The general wisdom seems to be that selling a house right now is probably not the best bet so I'm steeling myself for the fun and games of improving and extending.

    Stage one is in hand - roof vent to be installed tomorrow to reduce the feeling of living in an oven during the hot season! Okay, so at B3,000 supplied and installed it's not a major piece of development work but it is a step in the right direction. Further improvements to be made in ventilation and insulation at a later date.

    Stage two is going to be to sort the water out. On the assumption that I am clueless and I must be because having spent quite some time reading through discussions on the topic I still have very little idea about where to start!

    Our water supply is public water, not Chiang Mai city water but the local village source, and it comes out of the tap at great pressure . . . . during the middle of the day and the middle of the night when nobody else nearby is at home. In the morning and evening when a good supply is needed, the often resulting dribble is frustrating. The water main comes from the soi up the driveway via five outside taps and then supplies two bathrooms, both with electric showers, and a kitchen.

    So I'm trying to come up with an idea of my options and the costs involved.

    The options seem to be:

    - Storage tank on a tower. (Does the water get hot up there (cold showers are welcome in the hot season)? Where is a pump necessary? To supply the tank? After the tank, to supply the house? How noisy is a pump if someone gets up in the night for a pee? Gravity feed to the house, what height is required for suitable pressure?)

    - Ground level storage tank. (I guess no pump would be required to fill the tank but one would be needed to give a decent pressure to the house?)

    - Drill a well or borehole. (There is quite a bit of appeal in this option - independence, self-sufficiency and all that but how can I be sure that there's water down there at a sensible depth and will my Black & Decker do the job?)


    Any words of warning, wisdom or budget nightmares to share from the TeakDoor font of knowledge?


    JxP
    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

  2. #2
    Mea-Culpa
    Dalton's Avatar
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    I would get a tank in pvc or stainless, put it on the ground-level install a level-switch so the city water shuts off when the tank is full. After the tank you install a small automatic pump 3/4" should be enough for your need.

  3. #3
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    hi

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalton View Post
    I would get a tank in pvc or stainless, put it on the ground-level install a level-switch so the city water shuts off when the tank is full. After the tank you install a small automatic pump 3/4" should be enough for your need.
    hello i agree with dalton saw the price of the pump in another forum i think it is 2500 to 3000 bth if u have tank u can use your roof to colect water and save a bit on your waterbill plus saving on the cumunitys water reserves

  4. #4
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    You could also consider a buried tank - takes less space and keeps a constant water temperature....

  5. #5
    Have you got any cheese Thetyim's Avatar
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    Yep, I'm with Dalton also.
    A 2 cu metre stainless tank would be a nice size.
    Tank about 7000 Baht ? Pump about 4000 baht

  6. #6
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    Stainless tank and an auto pump, got to be the way to go

  7. #7
    Member JuniorExPat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalton View Post
    I would get a tank in pvc or stainless, put it on the ground-level install a level-switch so the city water shuts off when the tank is full. After the tank you install a small automatic pump 3/4" should be enough for your need.

    Thanks Dalton. At the risk of reinforcing my cluelessness . . .

    A level-switch being a float lever wotsit that closes the valve when it rises up to the full level - yes?

    Should there be some sort of switching mechanism included to protect against the unlikely event of any empty water tank? I'm assuming no water in the tank combined with someone turning on a tap would result in a dead pump.

    3/4" being the diameter of pipe supplying the house??



    JxP

  8. #8
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    It seems from your post that you have water all year around and you don't have many people living there.
    As has been said what you could you is buy a stainless steel tank of about 500 or 1,000 litres with an autoshut off valve followed by a well pump of around 150 to 250 watts electric motor.
    The only problem with a stainless steel tank is that in the hot weather you have warm water most of the time which saves on you electricity bills but it is cold in winter.
    You don't say if you're place is a one level or more.
    The only difference that will make is that you may need a slightly bigger pump.
    Our 3,000 litre stainless steel tank cost about 13,000 baht but we only use that for rainwater for drinking.

  9. #9
    Have you got any cheese Thetyim's Avatar
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    Q1 Yes

    Q2 Should there be? yes but I never seen one fitted in Thailand

    Q3 Yes

  10. #10
    Member JuniorExPat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smeden View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalton View Post
    I would get a tank in pvc or stainless, put it on the ground-level install a level-switch so the city water shuts off when the tank is full. After the tank you install a small automatic pump 3/4" should be enough for your need.
    hello i agree with dalton saw the price of the pump in another forum i think it is 2500 to 3000 bth if u have tank u can use your roof to colect water and save a bit on your waterbill plus saving on the cumunitys water reserves

    Thanks to you too smeden.

    I've got a note scribbled down somewhere that says "Grundfos water cooled 65psi pump B12,000", no idea where the info came from or why I wrote it down but it looks like it has not relevance to this discussion!

    I like the idea of collecting rainwater for use, what about filtering it?

    Whilst we're in an eco-friendly frame of mind, I'm surprised that nobody seems to like the idea of saving electricity by using gravity from a water tower - what's the thinking there?


    JxP

  11. #11
    lom
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    Quote Originally Posted by JuniorExPat
    Should there be some sort of switching mechanism included to protect against the unlikely event of any empty water tank? I'm assuming no water in the tank combined with someone turning on a tap would result in a dead pump.
    An electric float switch in the tank cutting power when the water level is very low.

  12. #12
    Member JuniorExPat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteshiva View Post
    You could also consider a buried tank - takes less space and keeps a constant water temperature....
    I do quite like that idea - I'm not sure if my perverse desire for cold water in the hot season balances off with the (I assume) additional cost of burying a tank and of course the extra electricity used when hot water is wanted.

    More investigation required . . .


    JxP

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JuniorExPat
    Whilst we're in an eco-friendly frame of mind, I'm surprised that nobody seems to like the idea of saving electricity by using gravity from a water tower - what's the thinking there?
    Will you have enough mains pressure to get it up there?
    You need a 2 meter drop to get enough pressure to power up a shower heater.

  14. #14
    Member JuniorExPat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thetyim View Post
    Yep, I'm with Dalton also.
    A 2 cu metre stainless tank would be a nice size.
    Tank about 7000 Baht ? Pump about 4000 baht
    Quote Originally Posted by dirtydog View Post
    Stainless tank and an auto pump, got to be the way to go

    This looks to be the popular option, thanks guys.


    JxP

  15. #15
    Member JuniorExPat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crabfat View Post
    It seems from your post that you have water all year around and you don't have many people living there.
    As has been said what you could you is buy a stainless steel tank of about 500 or 1,000 litres with an autoshut off valve followed by a well pump of around 150 to 250 watts electric motor.
    The only problem with a stainless steel tank is that in the hot weather you have warm water most of the time which saves on you electricity bills but it is cold in winter.
    You don't say if you're place is a one level or more.
    The only difference that will make is that you may need a slightly bigger pump.
    Our 3,000 litre stainless steel tank cost about 13,000 baht but we only use that for rainwater for drinking.

    Hi crabfat and thanks for your input.

    We do have water all year long but the pressure can go down to a gnat's dribble and it is sometimes cut off for 24 hours for maintenance, irritating but not life threatening, it will be good not to be caught out with a trickling cold shower again!

    There are two adults and four children in this equation, so lots of laundry and a high chance of someone ruining a lovely shower by flushing the loo in the other bathroom!

    The house is on one level.

    All in all you seem to be another recommendation for a stainless steel tank and pump combo - what a helpful bunch around here.


    JxP
    Last edited by JuniorExPat; 14-02-2008 at 06:34 PM. Reason: Split infinitive!

  16. #16
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    You can do that if you want to, You would have to build a concrete or steel framework at least 15 feet higher than your shower/toilet to have any water at all and then put your say 1000 liter plastic or stainless tank on top of that structure, with the float valve installed, run your pipe from the water source up to the top of that tank and a pipe from the bottom of the tank to your water pipes going inside and thats all there is to it, but I would also add a pump to the system to where your pipe comes inside and the pressure would be a lot better as you only have a head pressure of about 0.433 pounds per foot of elevation.
    Last edited by blackgang; 14-02-2008 at 06:39 PM.

  17. #17
    Member JuniorExPat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thetyim View Post
    Q1 Yes

    Q2 Should there be? yes but I never seen one fitted in Thailand

    Q3 Yes


    no surprise there! Sounds like an optional extra worth having though.


    JxP

  18. #18
    Member JuniorExPat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lom View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JuniorExPat
    Should there be some sort of switching mechanism included to protect against the unlikely event of any empty water tank? I'm assuming no water in the tank combined with someone turning on a tap would result in a dead pump.
    An electric float switch in the tank cutting power when the water level is very low.

    Sounds like you know that they exist here - that gives me hope, thanks!


    JxP

  19. #19
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    I am really against plastic and pvc water tanks, the sun in Thailand is too strong and seems to damage them real quickly, quite a few buildings we have been involved with the pvc water tanks last like just over 2 years, yep, no gaurantee then

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by JuniorExPat
    Sounds like you know that they exist here - that gives me hope, thanks!
    No that does not mean that one is available, might have to build it yourself.

  21. #21
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    They cost about 250baht, most pumps nowadays have an auto turn off when they get hot, ie they are pumping air and not water, ITC is a great brand, seem to last forever, after about 6 years just need to replace the resevoir and they sell stainless steel ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by JuniorExPat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lom View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JuniorExPat
    Should there be some sort of switching mechanism included to protect against the unlikely event of any empty water tank? I'm assuming no water in the tank combined with someone turning on a tap would result in a dead pump.
    An electric float switch in the tank cutting power when the water level is very low.

    Sounds like you know that they exist here - that gives me hope, thanks!


    JxP

  22. #22
    Member JuniorExPat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtydog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JuniorExPat
    Whilst we're in an eco-friendly frame of mind, I'm surprised that nobody seems to like the idea of saving electricity by using gravity from a water tower - what's the thinking there?
    Will you have enough mains pressure to get it up there?
    You need a 2 meter drop to get enough pressure to power up a shower heater.
    Quote Originally Posted by blackgang View Post
    You can do that if you want to, You would have to build a concrete or steel framework at least 15 feet higher than your shower/toilet to have any water at all and then put your say 1000 liter plastic or stainless tank on top of that structure, with the float valve installed, run your pipe from the water source up to the top of that tank and a pipe from the bottom of the tank to your water pipes going inside and thats all there is to it, but I would also add a pump to the system to where your pipe comes inside and the pressure would be a lot better as you only have a head pressure of about 1 1/2 pounds per foot of elevation.

    If I'm going to have to pump it up to the tank and then pump it again into the house to get a decent pressure it doesn't really seem worthwhile.

    I think I was hoping that the tank would fill from the mains when the pressure is good during the daytime and that I could get the tank high enough to maintain a decent gravity fed pressure. Is there a formula for working out required pressure and what height and volume of water is needed to achieve it?


    JxP

  23. #23
    Have you got any cheese Thetyim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JuniorExPat
    How noisy is a pump if someone gets up in the night for a pee?
    Position the pump outside the house and cover it from rain and sun.
    Mount it on some rubber and you won't even notice the noise.

  24. #24
    Member JuniorExPat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtydog View Post
    I am really against plastic and pvc water tanks, the sun in Thailand is too strong and seems to damage them real quickly, quite a few buildings we have been involved with the pvc water tanks last like just over 2 years, yep, no gaurantee then
    No arguments with that, the sun is not going to get any weaker! Kind of adds to the plus points for an underground tank . . . . might be worth getting a quote for digging that hole.


    JxP

  25. #25
    Member JuniorExPat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackgang View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JuniorExPat
    Sounds like you know that they exist here - that gives me hope, thanks!
    No that does not mean that one is available, might have to build it yourself.

    And what gives you the impression that I am that capable?!


    JxP

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