Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 111
  1. #1
    Thailand Expat
    Wasp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Last Online
    26-03-2019 @ 02:32 AM
    Posts
    2,193

    Watery Construction

    Some wise words are much needed .
    Please .

    Missy has a daughter . The daughter needs a house of some sort constructed . A very simple thing ..... and so is the house .

    The only place this can go is into their lakey thing . It's too large to be a pond but it's not a lake .
    It's an ' expanse ' . About 3 feet deep . Full of fish and undoubtedly poisonous rubbish .
    The small amount of land is Government-Owned and at some point they will come through with a road .

    So the only place she can go is into the water .



    That pathway ( if the photo worked ) will need to be 3 metres wide and about 10 metres long . Then at the end will be a dirt base maybe 12 metres square on which to be able to park a vehicle and have a house 10 metres by 10 metres .

    I'll post this now just to see if the photo worked .
    I was one of those that got devastated by Photobucket .


    Wasp
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Thailand Expat
    Wasp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Last Online
    26-03-2019 @ 02:32 AM
    Posts
    2,193
    Well ...... looks like it worked although the photo is hugemongous !

    Now ..... I am not in Thailand . My Bahts will be going there to get this started but I won't be there .
    To get started I am being told I will have to buy many truckloads of soil and accompanying rubbish to be tipped into the water . Many loads until it reaches out maybe 20 metres and then many more to make the platform for an eventual building . This of course has to be at a height to come above the 3 foot depth of the water .

    My problem --- is that I am being told that this is all that's required . It will settle . It will be helped a bit to settle . But that's it .

    I don't believe this can be true .
    SURELY - Yes it will settle but it will also slide sideways and sink ? And will never stop ?



    Surely it needs supporting ( or blocking ) Left , Right and all around ?

    " No . No . This is Thai Way . Iss fine ! "

    But we can see ' Thai Way ' everywhere we look and its not encouraging .


    Wasp
    Attached Images Attached Images

  3. #3
    Thailand Expat
    Wasp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Last Online
    26-03-2019 @ 02:32 AM
    Posts
    2,193
    I don't know a great deal about construction ..... especially in 3 feet of water and onto a slimey muddy base ....... but I would have thought this was needed -

    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #4
    Thailand Expat
    pseudolus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Online
    Today @ 12:55 AM
    Location
    On the range
    Posts
    17,611
    Better to do it with piling surely? Dropping rubble and big stones would not shift that much, but by the sound of it they are planning to fill the thing in. The contractor will if they get a cut per each truckload.

  5. #5
    Thailand Expat
    Wasp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Last Online
    26-03-2019 @ 02:32 AM
    Posts
    2,193
    I read somewhere that Thais expect their constructions to fall apart after ten years !
    But I don't want to spend money on this and then hear that the base has all slid sideways and outwards .

    The Thais - " Iss fine ".

    But I --- think not .

    I'd greatly appreciate any knowledgeable guidance on this.


    Wasp

  6. #6
    Thailand Expat
    Wasp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Last Online
    26-03-2019 @ 02:32 AM
    Posts
    2,193
    Quote Originally Posted by pseudolus View Post
    Better to do it with piling surely? Dropping rubble and big stones would not shift that much, but by the sound of it they are planning to fill the thing in. The contractor will if they get a cut per each truckload.
    Well .... I couldn't explain what 'piling' means . Thumping concrete columns into the mud I do understand . But how far down ?
    And are they spaced apart so you make a wood or concrete platform on top ?

    If they are spaced apart ...... how far apart do you think ?
    I'd like to work out how many pilings and cost .

    Also pseudolous --- does it need a big pile driver ramming them in ? How does it get out into the water ?

    Are you saying DONT follow that plan of just tipping dirt in all on its own ? Nobody has ever said anything about rocks and rubble . Just loads of dirt .

    And thank you .


    Wasp

  7. #7
    Thailand Expat
    can123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Last Online
    18-01-2019 @ 03:38 AM
    Posts
    5,417
    One thing you should consider is - who owns the lake ? If the land all the way around it is government land, the government must own it. It is highly unlikely that the person you intend building a house for owns the lake, I think.

  8. #8
    Thailand Expat
    Wasp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Last Online
    26-03-2019 @ 02:32 AM
    Posts
    2,193
    Quote Originally Posted by can123 View Post
    One thing you should consider is - who owns the lake ? If the land all the way around it is government land, the government must own it. It is highly unlikely that the person you intend building a house for owns the lake, I think.
    Funnily enough they DO own it . They own this area as a family compound and they even owned beyond that stream up to an old road .
    So yes they own it . But one idiot grandfather gave the land across the stream to the local school . God knows why ..... though he did get a visit from 8 monks to say " Thank You " . Then at some point the Government simply took ownership between the lakey and the stream .
    One day they will turn up and make a road there .
    The daughters present hovel will get bulldozed.


    Wasp

  9. #9
    Thailand Expat
    can123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Last Online
    18-01-2019 @ 03:38 AM
    Posts
    5,417
    I am genuinely pleased that they own it. I have visited a beautiful home for sale in Thailand. It had been built with no expense spared on the wife's land. Sadly, it was discovered after the build that the wife's family had no legal title which allowed them to sell the land ,the wife being completely ignorant of land law. To her it appeared that the land was theirs but the poor man had wasted well over two million baht by listening to her without checking first. It would have been perfect for us as it was less than ten miles from my wife's family. All very sad.

  10. #10
    Thailand Expat
    pseudolus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Online
    Today @ 12:55 AM
    Location
    On the range
    Posts
    17,611
    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp View Post
    Well .... I couldn't explain what 'piling' means . Thumping concrete columns into the mud I do understand . But how far down ?
    And are they spaced apart so you make a wood or concrete platform on top ?

    If they are spaced apart ...... how far apart do you think ?
    I'd like to work out how many pilings and cost .

    Also pseudolous --- does it need a big pile driver ramming them in ? How does it get out into the water ?
    Water is 3ft deep?



    It is Driven Piles (sounds painful) you would need as that pushes the dirt to the side, increasing pressure on the pile thus stability.

    https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Driven_piles for your information.

    It's not unknown tech in Thailand...



    I reckon it might just be cheaper than filling in the lake and then putting foundations on top of that. A job lot quicker as well. But you would need a soil sample done first to check suitability.
    Originally Posted by bsnub "No wonder I drive a tesla"

  11. #11
    Thailand Expat
    Wasp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Last Online
    26-03-2019 @ 02:32 AM
    Posts
    2,193
    Nice pictures .

    I can see the sense of piles . Though really I just want to establish that pushing truckloads of dirt into the water is NOT a sensible plan .

    Driving all those piles out into the water ....... sound expensive .


    Wasp

  12. #12
    Thailand Expat
    pseudolus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Online
    Today @ 12:55 AM
    Location
    On the range
    Posts
    17,611
    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp View Post
    pushing truckloads of dirt into the water is NOT a sensible plan .
    No current, then arguably the mud will not distribute too much but it will a little. Tell the Somchai to get out in his truck and never come home each day without the back of it full of rocks.

  13. #13
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Roiet
    Posts
    28,987
    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp View Post
    3 metres wide and about 10 metres long
    Dirt fill will work. Some settling and erosion will occur on fill edges. Fill should be 1 meter above high water line and 1 meter wider than intended build area.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp View Post
    Then at the end will be a dirt base maybe 12 metres square on which to be able to park a vehicle and have a house 10 metres by 10 metres
    I would question the need of the 10 meter long road. Why not fill 10 sqm from existing shoreline? Much less fill needed and less erosion.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

  14. #14
    Thailand Expat

    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    15,003
    As Pseudolus says, and was my immediate thought, why infill when piles would do a better and quicker job? and why 20 metres out? Driven piles, concrete slab, wooden shack on top.

  15. #15
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Roiet
    Posts
    28,987
    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    why infill when piles would do a better and quicker job?
    Cost trade off and/or availability of local pile driver expertise. Coincidentally, we built built a longer 3 meter wide "road" just like this 5 years ago. Dirt fill only. Very common when one wants a separator between rice paddies. However, not on exisisting lake.

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Online
    24-02-2019 @ 06:50 PM
    Posts
    424
    Hey Wasp good to see you back.
    Why doesn't Missy build the house on her block down the street from her place or has she sold that?
    I am very reluctant to give you any advice on how to build who you (Missy) are suggesting in the OP as that advice would be very simple, "Don't do it".

    Several reasons.
    To just fill in the access and house block to the dimensions you gave would require at least 600 cubic metres of fill which is allowing for about a metre above the water line so if a truck load is 5 cubic metres then 120 truck loads not cheap and probably unsuccessful in the long term.

    The fill would most likely over time become waterlogged as you have said and therefore sink/slump. If you want to explain this it you maybe able to explain using concrete as the example to show what happens when too much water is added it "flows". There are several ways to decrease the impact of this and one is to make the access track much wider so the "core" stays solid. Or build a rock (large rocks) wall along each edge.

    As for the "house block" if you built a 10x10 house on a 12x12 area then there wouldn't be much room for the car and it would probably end up in the water when they were trying to turn it around, unless of course they reversed all the way back and then they would still probably end up going off the edge into the water. For a house of 10x10 I would think you need at least a 15x15 filled area.

    In order for the house construction to stay stable you would need to drive pylons through the fill down into the solid ground below (how far?).

    Of course you could always just donate the money asked for and laugh at the end result in 5 to 10 years.

    You need to come back to Thailand so I can come and have a chat again, I need a laugh.

    Cheers

  17. #17
    Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 04:57 PM
    Location
    SW Australia
    Posts
    295
    There’s a 4 storey hotel in Mahasarakham built that way.
    Buy swamp, dump fill, wait for compaction (10-15 minutes I’d say), build structure.
    The building’s walls are cracking low down ....

    The owner was having a breakfast bar / cafe being built on the road frontage.
    Needing a house builder, I asked him if he could recommend the crew he had on the job which was almost finished.
    “Well this is the fifth lot of builders I’ve had on this job” (he’d sacked the others ...).

    As Norton says, dumping fill will work but don’t build too quickly until the fill stops moving.
    And make the filled area much bigger than you think you’ll need.

  18. #18
    Your local I.Q. Monitor
    Hugh Cow's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Last Online
    Today @ 08:02 AM
    Location
    Qld/Bangkok
    Posts
    1,955
    Being an Engineer and reading these fascinatingly expensive and complex ways to build a house over water. I wonder if you have considered a cheaper and much simpler and may I say novel engineering alternative?
    I believe the technical term is a fooking boat .

  19. #19
    Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 04:57 PM
    Location
    SW Australia
    Posts
    295
    Spoken like a true engineer ;-)
    Boats are a hole in the water into which money is thrown.

  20. #20
    Thailand Expat

    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    15,003
    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Cow View Post
    Being an Engineer and reading these fascinatingly expensive and complex ways to build a house over water. I wonder if you have considered a cheaper and much simpler and may I say novel engineering alternative?
    I believe the technical term is a fooking boat .
    Pontoon base is not a silly idea at all.

  21. #21
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Online
    24-02-2019 @ 06:50 PM
    Posts
    424
    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Cow View Post
    Being an Engineer and reading these fascinatingly expensive and complex ways to build a house over water. I wonder if you have considered a cheaper and much simpler and may I say novel engineering alternative?
    I believe the technical term is a fooking boat .

    Have to be a barge if they want somewhere to park the car. The simplest solution is to find somewhere else to build the house.

  22. #22
    disturbance in the Turnip baldrick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Last Online
    Today @ 09:54 PM
    Location
    Heidleberg
    Posts
    20,817
    Let us get this straight

    You want to buy some land, and then move it...... ?

  23. #23
    Thailand Expat
    Klondyke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Last Online
    Today @ 08:46 PM
    Posts
    4,280
    My two cents of advice: A land filling is a usual way in Thailand, just negotiate a good price per truck (a hokloor - 6 wheel truck, 5 cbm is a wish, 500 - 600B), and calculate the estimated area. Sometimes there is a somebody who needs to dig a pond, so make a deal with him. Now, it's a good season for such works before new rain comes in April May.

    And it surely will need a time for settlement, the time frame not easy to estimate, depends on the soil quality. Mostly it is a clay that after settlement is quite compact and stable against a water penetration sidewards. For an easy house, it is not so much to worry (unlike of the 4 stories house), a foundation ring with reinforcement will do.

    For this small area it would be surely not cheap to organize a piling stuff - especially if it is in the water. Then, you will need to bring the hundreds of soil trucks anyway. And the settlement time either...

  24. #24
    Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 04:57 PM
    Location
    SW Australia
    Posts
    295
    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    Pontoon base is not a silly idea at all.
    If enough cheap sealed plastic drums could be strapped and decked then yes but there’s always the risk of drum failure.

  25. #25
    Thailand Expat
    pseudolus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Online
    Today @ 12:55 AM
    Location
    On the range
    Posts
    17,611
    Quote Originally Posted by baldrick View Post
    Let us get this straight

    You want to buy some land, and then move it...... ?
    Post of the day.


    Anyway how much land is on the outside of the lake that can be used. Build on that and expand a wood deck into the lake for outside space?

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •