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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuangLao View Post
    and sound local connections are helpful.
    And many of those sound local connections can go rogue any minute.

    I've just heard of one.

    Got the couple to pay up everything in advance and then did a couple of months work on the home,and then they found out he'd gambled it all away,and now house is half-finished.

  2. #27
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    OP has omitted one thing of much importance, location, BKK or large city, maybe you can get contractors with a good rep.
    Outside of cities, you may get local contractors, but you are unluckily to find any of them with any kind of references or real qualifications.

    Real electricians, plumbers or simple tillers are as rare as hens teeth, everyone is a jack of all trades.

    As to your wife being the go between, again location matters, no unemployment here, workers, if not happy will just walk off to another job.

    Question, when you submitted your house plans to the local planning department did you have them translated to Thai, plans are plans, yes, but toilets, bedrooms etc, where I am must be Thai.

    Again, location in these matters can be a massive difference, that's why I would go for a local that knows the rules, a million Baht house built in the wrong place, or without proper planning/building permits, can be taken down within 2 weeks, no appeals.

    Go slow and double check everything, you may be rich and not care, up to you.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPPR2 View Post
    My suggestion is find a reputable General Contractor and manage him versus trying to track down and coordinate individual tradesman.
    exactly this.

    Thai Dupp's build is going as well as it is because he chose wisely, albeit based on his knowledge of construction, his 'builder' is what I'd consider as a construction manager. Additionally, TD's location seemed to offer a bigger choice of construction teams (than I had out in the boonies). I would suggest that with most builds, the level of expectation starts high and has to be reduced as reality kicks in... as others have said, Thai building teams generally consist of Jacks of all trades.

    In any case, a word of advice... I would be VERY wary of getting too involved, not only for the sake of your own sanity, but also micro-managing can backfire horribly here. I have a friend who started a build in my village 6 months ago, has already had to dismiss an electrician, a team of builders (who walked off the build), and an excavator operator, all of whom were used successfully on other builds in the village. He also spent weeks running around in circles trying to source materials and labour himself thinking it would save him money and give him control, rather than having daily meet-up's with a site manager/contractor who could handle all of this... a good one pays for himself.

    Obviously, when it comes to fittings and finish, then you should be very much involved, unless you are happy to go with 'random Thai-ness' as a design direction

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyenglish View Post
    He also spent weeks running around in circles trying to source materials and labour himself thinking it would save him money and give him control
    If it is reasonable managed and have a bit idea about construction (and can easy communicate with the workers - or the wife is helpful) it can result in a 50% of the cost paid to a general contractor. The choice of material and the choice of local labour either is here very good and easy getting.

    It gives also a good feeling of own creation and contribution, not just to get delivered something out of a catalog...

    (and for the saved money can force the wife to buy another diamong ring or two...)

  5. #30
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    Plasterer - Building in Khonkaen

    Quote Originally Posted by David48atTD View Post
    That approach might be a little more challenging then you might imagine

    Out of curiosity ... why do you need a Plasterer/Gyprocker?


    Absolutely the best of luck with your project.

    David
    David
    Thanks for the reply
    I will need a plasterer mainly for the ceilings ,
    I have designed some dropped ceilings in the main rooms
    Plus I envisage gyprocking all of the ceilings , I have used mainly downlights throughout the project and these will need a surface/structure to be mounted in.
    If you know of a good plasterer I would appreciate the recommendation.

  6. #31
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    Thanks for the input, I am considering getting quotes from local builders to lock up stage at least, with myself being onsite as a project manager.
    Yes I will have to educate my wife on the basics of negotiating a build and to understand the dynamics involved when dealing with trades/ builders.
    I am considering a bonus scheme for work well done to the standards that I nominate. This is to be explained up front. No quality - no bonus.
    This will involve my being onsite all the time ensuring best practise/methods and materials are used while maintaining a budget.
    It will be a challenge because the system is not regulated in any way at all. only money talks.


    Quote Originally Posted by JPPR2 View Post
    That's the big issue most have been saddled with..."If I". You may spend a tremendous amount of time trying to line up all these folks to do the work. The effort versus cost savings isn't a big plus over here like it is in AUS or the U.S. being the project manager

    There are some really good General contractors out there with complete teams that work for them and you do not have to worry about the disappearing work force when rice harvest time comes. In our case, I drew the drawings, had them rendered to standard and then my wife and I sought out a general contractor. When we did we went to numerous of his builds both complete and in progress to see and get feedback. It was much easier then trying to find all of them individually.



    Farang pricing is the least of your concerns IMHO. The larger concerns are reliable help and them doing it the way you want. Your wife working with the Thai workers will negotiate it way differently I suspect. I had this initially with my wife and I sat her down and said There is no "Mai Pen Rai" in this build. Everything matters and there are ways to do it right and ways to do it Thai. Lets do it right. She was on board and our house turned out extremely nice.

    Again good luck with your build. Look forward to the pics and updates

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantadive View Post
    David
    Thanks for the reply
    I will need a plasterer mainly for the ceilings ,
    I have designed some dropped ceilings in the main rooms
    Plus I envisage gyprocking all of the ceilings , I have used mainly downlights throughout the project and these will need a surface/structure to be mounted in.
    If you know of a good plasterer I would appreciate the recommendation.
    I think you might have a problem finding a plasterer for the ceillings,they seem to only plaster walls,its mostly gysum boards and ceiling paint.
    we had our car port extended and that is what they used,also they fitted 2 ceiling fans without a problem,that was done 8yrs.ago.
    with this you do need a good roofer,someone who knows what they are doing.HARD TO FIND.

  8. #33
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    Thanks for the imput
    I have an Aussie expat who has carried out a similar project nearing completion,
    He has sourced a lot of the necessary trades/people and has had his share of issues.
    My plans are in English at present but I will be converting them to Thai (Not hard to do in ADOBE Professional)
    I have engaged a local engineer to design the structure and manage the planning/building permits. His design work is in Thai and this might satisfy the local authorities, he will advise me. I will need a set of plans in Thai for the locals though.
    He came recommended by others who have used him so he is a known quantity.
    It is interesting that my design complies with the boundary clearance regulations even though when I look down the street very few other houses do. And one of them is a local builder!!!

    I am being carefull and following the rules etc, I am not rich and I have to balance quality and cost ( same as in AUS). Everyone builds to a budget.




    Quote Originally Posted by jamescollister View Post
    OP has omitted one thing of much importance, location, BKK or large city, maybe you can get contractors with a good rep.
    Outside of cities, you may get local contractors, but you are unluckily to find any of them with any kind of references or real qualifications.

    Real electricians, plumbers or simple tillers are as rare as hens teeth, everyone is a jack of all trades.

    As to your wife being the go between, again location matters, no unemployment here, workers, if not happy will just walk off to another job.

    Question, when you submitted your house plans to the local planning department did you have them translated to Thai, plans are plans, yes, but toilets, bedrooms etc, where I am must be Thai.

    Again, location in these matters can be a massive difference, that's why I would go for a local that knows the rules, a million Baht house built in the wrong place, or without proper planning/building permits, can be taken down within 2 weeks, no appeals.

    Go slow and double check everything, you may be rich and not care, up to you.

  9. #34
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    Thanks for the advise, however why should I accept substandard work because others have?
    My style is not to micro manage but to ensure that everything is done correct and manage the people carrying out the works.
    If I go thru a few different trades expecting a qualified job from them so be it.
    In Australia I have sent different people / so called trades packing from job sites due to poor work/ behaviour.

    I will pay good rates and in return I expect a professional job.
    I can work along with most, and am very patient in leading/teaching as I have a wealth of experience in this field.


    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyenglish View Post
    exactly this.

    Thai Dupp's build is going as well as it is because he chose wisely, albeit based on his knowledge of construction, his 'builder' is what I'd consider as a construction manager. Additionally, TD's location seemed to offer a bigger choice of construction teams (than I had out in the boonies). I would suggest that with most builds, the level of expectation starts high and has to be reduced as reality kicks in... as others have said, Thai building teams generally consist of Jacks of all trades.

    In any case, a word of advice... I would be VERY wary of getting too involved, not only for the sake of your own sanity, but also micro-managing can backfire horribly here. I have a friend who started a build in my village 6 months ago, has already had to dismiss an electrician, a team of builders (who walked off the build), and an excavator operator, all of whom were used successfully on other builds in the village. He also spent weeks running around in circles trying to source materials and labour himself thinking it would save him money and give him control, rather than having daily meet-up's with a site manager/contractor who could handle all of this... a good one pays for himself.

    Obviously, when it comes to fittings and finish, then you should be very much involved, unless you are happy to go with 'random Thai-ness' as a design direction

  10. #35
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    Dave from Australia is a Master builder and a legend in Khon Kaen.

  11. #36
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    I would say what you propose is perfectly do-able, with two major constraints, time & patience, if you have infinite amounts of both you should have no problem.
    Good luck.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Take a look at this recent construction thread. It is a good one.
    https://teakdoor.com/construction-in-...hai-house.html
    Thanks for that Norton....


    Welcome Mantadive and may i add good wishes for the success of your project


    So, as Norton says, I'm currently telling my tale of a build in Chonburi province, and so far...its going OK.

    Dont know if any of this will help you but.. here goesI'm not saying its the best way, its just my way)

    It was my design but once I had drawn it, I got it turned into a set of plans acceptable to the OrBorTor by a qualified architect, with an engineer on tow to x-check those calculations.

    I made a point of getting to know that OrBorTor, dropped him a bottle or two and generally kept in with him. He is a very good person to have on 'your side'. See in my thread how he helped us

    I spent a long time thinking about what i wanted in the house - I did not rush into it. I wrote a few wish-lists, revised them after talking to the wife and others, and finally settled on what we wanted. Planning is everything

    I also took a long time - some were thinking too long (!) as it took the best par of 6 months - to engage a builder but maaan.. it's paid off! hes been star performer and I think most here will agree he's pretty much done things as good as or better than expectations. He is a proper building 'company' though not big, and he himself is a qualified engineer.

    Again, I took time to draw up a contract. Don't allow the builder to do this or it will be the shortest most one-sided document in history - something like.''pay me 75% of the cash up front and i will make a start, with no timescales listed''!. I detailed finishes, responsibilities, stages, expectations...i think 56 clauses. All the stages were paid in arrears. You know what? ...he signed it straight away! Full copy of my contract is in my build thread for reference.

    I knew in my case I could not be on site as much as was needed as I am still working on a live project in Dubai (Museum of the Future, if you are interested). Princess Joy is a demon on site, more scary than me, but she too cant me there all the time. I engaged the OrBorTor Engineer to go there daily and hes been brilliant. Hes got a vested interested in making this project go well because he approved the plans!

    OK.. a few pointers hope they are useful, food for thought anyway.. again good with yours look forward to following it

    cheers TD

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by headhunter View Post
    I think you might have a problem finding a plasterer for the ceillings,they seem to only plaster walls,its mostly gysum boards and ceiling paint.
    we had our car port extended and that is what they used,also they fitted 2 ceiling fans without a problem,that was done 8yrs.ago.
    with this you do need a good roofer,someone who knows what they are doing.HARD TO FIND.

    We had all of our ceilings done with sheet rock and all were taped and textured before paint.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPETER65 View Post
    We had all of our ceilings done with sheet rock and all were taped and textured before paint.
    not sure i know what sheet rock is,but our ceillings boards were all taped before painting,BUT the other 45 house's on our moo-ban all their ceillings boards are falling apart as not one was taped and most leak water.

  15. #40
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    ^sheet rock = another name for plasterboard, gyp rock

  16. #41
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    Building in Khonkaen

    I appreciate your feedback and will follow the progress of your build with interest.

    So far I have completed the plans, having translated them my self to Thai (using Google translate) I just have to get them proof read .
    I get the completed engineering this week,so I will going thru that carefully to see if I need to make any changes.
    One change I already asked for was that the 500 mm square pads at the bottom of the piers be done away with, the piers remain 450 dia all the way and be made at least 1500 - 2000 deep with re-inforcing. this way they can be drilled rather than excavated and back filled. a much more efficient building practise. The depth is important in that the structure has to be founded into natural ground with a constant moisture content then it wont move.
    I remember building a house at Cooloongatta (Qld) Australia that was actually founded into marine mud. using the above approach the house has never moved. In the past I have used screw piers extensively but even though these would work, it is not the standard building system here. It would mean redesigining the complete structure and doing away with the concrete columns. So I will stick with the standard construction system albeit with some improvements.

    I have started to source the different trades but as I am still 3-4 months from truly beginning (with the demolition of the existing structure) I am not rushing.
    I am considering getting a couple of quotes from local builders to 'lock-up' stage at least to see how they compare.

    I like the approach to the contract and totally agree with it.
    Keep it tight and in control, you only want to build it once.

    Keep in touch

    Paul





    Quote Originally Posted by Thai Dhupp View Post
    Thanks for that Norton....


    Welcome Mantadive and may i add good wishes for the success of your project


    So, as Norton says, I'm currently telling my tale of a build in Chonburi province, and so far...its going OK.

    Dont know if any of this will help you but.. here goesI'm not saying its the best way, its just my way)

    It was my design but once I had drawn it, I got it turned into a set of plans acceptable to the OrBorTor by a qualified architect, with an engineer on tow to x-check those calculations.

    I made a point of getting to know that OrBorTor, dropped him a bottle or two and generally kept in with him. He is a very good person to have on 'your side'. See in my thread how he helped us

    I spent a long time thinking about what i wanted in the house - I did not rush into it. I wrote a few wish-lists, revised them after talking to the wife and others, and finally settled on what we wanted. Planning is everything

    I also took a long time - some were thinking too long (!) as it took the best par of 6 months - to engage a builder but maaan.. it's paid off! hes been star performer and I think most here will agree he's pretty much done things as good as or better than expectations. He is a proper building 'company' though not big, and he himself is a qualified engineer.

    Again, I took time to draw up a contract. Don't allow the builder to do this or it will be the shortest most one-sided document in history - something like.''pay me 75% of the cash up front and i will make a start, with no timescales listed''!. I detailed finishes, responsibilities, stages, expectations...i think 56 clauses. All the stages were paid in arrears. You know what? ...he signed it straight away! Full copy of my contract is in my build thread for reference.

    I knew in my case I could not be on site as much as was needed as I am still working on a live project in Dubai (Museum of the Future, if you are interested). Princess Joy is a demon on site, more scary than me, but she too cant me there all the time. I engaged the OrBorTor Engineer to go there daily and hes been brilliant. Hes got a vested interested in making this project go well because he approved the plans!

    OK.. a few pointers hope they are useful, food for thought anyway.. again good with yours look forward to following it

    cheers TD

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mozzbie47 View Post
    Be carefull,,I have been involved with many so called Thai tradesmen,,,trust me when I say 98% of them are bloody hopeless,,,and thats being polite.
    And rip off artists. I ordered the wood floor based on a quote but he never showed up and when the GF called him he said he would come but for double the quoted price. i guess somebody clued him up on farang special price

  18. #43
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    Yep, usually the case,,,as they say been there done that..

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantadive View Post
    I appreciate your feedback and will follow the progress of your build with interest.

    So far I have completed the plans, having translated them my self to Thai (using Google translate) I just have to get them proof read .
    I get the completed engineering this week,so I will going thru that carefully to see if I need to make any changes.
    One change I already asked for was that the 500 mm square pads at the bottom of the piers be done away with, the piers remain 450 dia all the way and be made at least 1500 - 2000 deep with re-inforcing. this way they can be drilled rather than excavated and back filled. a much more efficient building practise. The depth is important in that the structure has to be founded into natural ground with a constant moisture content then it wont move.
    I remember building a house at Cooloongatta (Qld) Australia that was actually founded into marine mud. using the above approach the house has never moved. In the past I have used screw piers extensively but even though these would work, it is not the standard building system here. It would mean redesigining the complete structure and doing away with the concrete columns. So I will stick with the standard construction system albeit with some improvements.

    I have started to source the different trades but as I am still 3-4 months from truly beginning (with the demolition of the existing structure) I am not rushing.
    I am considering getting a couple of quotes from local builders to 'lock-up' stage at least to see how they compare.

    I like the approach to the contract and totally agree with it.
    Keep it tight and in control, you only want to build it once.

    Keep in touch

    Paul
    Hi again.

    I too piled, as the upper layer had no support, and we raised the land approx 1m too.

    One of the good things about my builder, which was identified when we were making the final choice was that he was a proper building company and as such, he had a lot of equipment. In this case, a crane and a piling auger. Over the life of the project to date, we have saved a lot of ancillary cost by not having to hire equipment. So far, hes had it all. this is something to think about when you are choosing your builder.

    We piled down to the underlying solid layer, on the recommendation of the OrBorTor engineer. always listen to those with local knowledge. there was no 'pay day' for him on that advice so it was not money-driven. you will get a feel of those involved in your build as you go on - some be wary, but some you learn to trust. We are pretty good with our key players now, which always makes things go smoothly.

    oh lastly... be wary of google translate.... its not as good as it thinks it is!!! If you have someone speaking Thai and English, get them to check over the translation and be sure it says what you want it to - could be disastrous if not. I literally sat with my builder and went through each clause of the contract, until I was satisfied he understood fully what was required. a couple of hours very well spent.

  20. #45
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    as the above post,this is our find,we had a large house built on 2plots of land,the last couple of yrs.we discovered the drainage water from,kitchen,upstairs tiolet and shower wasnt going where it should be,so as we have 8 inspection drain covers over 50mtrs.of the second plot i thought i would try and find out where the water was going.i found one leak just outside the kitchen,got intouch with the original builder who promised he would come and look at it,never did.so where was the water going,first i wanted the whole plot exposed so to find other leaks.so i found 4 in total and concrete pipes broken so the water was takeing the soil from under our boundry wall.oh dear.
    so DONT HAVE concrete pipes fitted use thai blue 4inch ones.they finished sunday all done and tested.
    so watch what these so called builders DOOOOOOOOOOO. WE DIDNT.

  21. #46
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    Thanks

    Yes I am getting my google translate proof read by a person who speaks and writes both languages ( someone I can trust)

    I have written many building contracts in my career and I will be looking very closely at this one.

    Importantly I will always be in front with the value of work completed / payments until the final payment.

    If a builder wants too much up front I will either supply and he can supply labour on a weekly basis or I will move on to someone else who can carry the build between payments.



    Quote Originally Posted by Thai Dhupp View Post
    Hi again.

    I too piled, as the upper layer had no support, and we raised the land approx 1m too.

    One of the good things about my builder, which was identified when we were making the final choice was that he was a proper building company and as such, he had a lot of equipment. In this case, a crane and a piling auger. Over the life of the project to date, we have saved a lot of ancillary cost by not having to hire equipment. So far, hes had it all. this is something to think about when you are choosing your builder.

    We piled down to the underlying solid layer, on the recommendation of the OrBorTor engineer. always listen to those with local knowledge. there was no 'pay day' for him on that advice so it was not money-driven. you will get a feel of those involved in your build as you go on - some be wary, but some you learn to trust. We are pretty good with our key players now, which always makes things go smoothly.

    oh lastly... be wary of google translate.... its not as good as it thinks it is!!! If you have someone speaking Thai and English, get them to check over the translation and be sure it says what you want it to - could be disastrous if not. I literally sat with my builder and went through each clause of the contract, until I was satisfied he understood fully what was required. a couple of hours very well spent.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantadive View Post
    Thanks

    Yes I am getting my google translate proof read by a person who speaks and writes both languages ( someone I can trust)

    I have written many building contracts in my career and I will be looking very closely at this one.

    Importantly I will always be in front with the value of work completed / payments until the final payment.

    If a builder wants too much up front I will either supply and he can supply labour on a weekly basis or I will move on to someone else who can carry the build between payments.

    You can see on my contract that the final payment came after completion + 6 weeks to allow for snagging.

    The final payment probably represented a lot of his profit here so again, he has an interest in making sure there are not too many snags.

    All contracts are different - i left out a couple of things myself but its worked out OK.


    the other thing you need, to stay sane and happy when building in LoS, is a little flexibility

  23. #48
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    one other bit or should i say BIG bit of advice is,DONT let nosey bastard neighbours come and tell your wife DONT DO THAT,THIS IS BETTER.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by headhunter View Post
    one other bit or should i say BIG bit of advice is DONT let nosey bastard neighbours come and tell your wife DONT DO THAT,THIS IS BETTER.
    The 50-year Thai lady strategy, regarding the tactics of fleecing western farangs, has been well-documented,...in plain English ~ Yet,...arrogant fools persist.
    Last edited by TuskegeeBen; 09-08-2018 at 06:31 PM.

  25. #50
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    Hi there MD...

    ... so any progress to keep us on track with your build?

    Update would be great, thanks. where are you at now with the plans and sourcing those trades?

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