Thread: How Do I Earth the House ?

One of the things that baffles me here is how Thai's will mix nomex wire. I just suffered through this recently. I went to switch out an outdoor light to a 30w LED deal and they pulled 2 wire nomex versus 3. Funny thing though they pulled 3 wire to switch and ran 2 wire from switch to light. Anyway now I am going to pull out the 2 wire and pull 3 wire as the Philips LED requires a ground which exists from Earth to Breaker to light switch.

Overall there are some very competent Thai electricians. Not all of them are hacks. My first question to them would be "Do you know what a wire nut is?" If they don't then expect everything to be black electrical taped and as we all know, tape in these parts falls off after the adhesive gets soft from the heat.

Originally Posted by JPPR2

Overall there are some very competent Thai electricians. Not all of them are hacks. My first question to them would be "Do you know what a wire nut is?" If they don't then expect everything to be black electrical taped and as we all know, tape in these parts falls off after the adhesive gets soft from the heat.

I'm sure there are a lot of UK electricians who wouldn't know what a "wire nut" is if you asked them (an American term, perhaps). It's called something else in the UK, and "wire nuts" aren't used these days anyway (it's not recommended). Brits would use screwed terminals of some sort, like terminal block.

Originally Posted by Neverna

I'm sure there are a lot of UK electricians who wouldn't know what a "wire nut" is if you asked them (an American term, perhaps). It's called something else in the UK, and "wire nuts" aren't used these days anyway (it's not recommended). Brits would use screwed terminals of some sort, like terminal block.

Well us Merkins use wire nuts and have and still do. quite a common practice. Far better then a few wraps of electrical tape which I have seen used here endlessly. When my house was built I insisted on Wire nuts or terminal connector in my house. It was on my checklist before I bought off. Our house is done right. However the carpark and outside kitchen was done by locals and while its ok in general some of the Thai bad habits are present and so have had to fix a few things.

Originally Posted by David48atTD

Learn something new every day

I'm with you David. Learn something new everyday. Makes life great. I have never seen terminal block type electrical installs in the US. You pull Nomex to a junction and wire nut the grounds together. If more then 2 terminate in same box we typical use a copper screw lug.

I brought a plethora of wire nuts over when I moved here for solid core and stranded. The Electrician that came out to install our 150w LED flood lights didn't have any so I showed him and he liked it and said much better and safer. I gave him a handful and the link. They are available here.

^^ Wire nuts are available in Thailand. I've seen them in Global House, Tool Pro and Home Pro. However, if you haven't used them before then you're not likely to notice them.

Personally, I don't like them and don't use that method of joining wires or saving a cable run. I prefer junction boxes and terminal block.

A lot of the black tape and wire nuts can be replaced with an inline crimp, which are also available but require a decent crimp tool.

Isn't this wire connection technique (wire nuts) used in USA guilty for the many house fires where the majority of houses are made by wood and the current flowing thru such connections is twice so high than at other countries already modernized to 220 (240V)? Whilst the US household appliances are also much more powerful than usually in poor Europe?

Originally Posted by David48atTD

I'm a qualified electrician ... never even heard of a wire nut is, let alone used one.

First time I saw them was here. I quite like them as they're a good way to attache a 'spur'. But in saying that I've also seen Thais make a 'spur' using a safety pin.

Originally Posted by Klondyke

Isn't this wire connection technique (wire nuts) used in USA guilty for the many house fires where the majority of houses are made by wood and the current flowing thru such connections is twice so high than at other countries already modernized to 220 (240V)? Whilst the US household appliances are also much more powerful than usually in poor Europe?

I have never in all my years heard of a wire nut melting due to power and heat thus causing a house fire. Honestly most use them for the ground wire because in most cases the neutral and live are installed into a socket or a power source. I have however witnessed many times where the wire nut was used to join power leads and its never an issue.. I am not seeing the terminal block method used in the US. Depending on how many wires are being pulled to a wall outlet this could create a huge space concern.

In the end either method works well with no issues. Its FAR better then seeing these guys tie up wires with pliers then wrap with a load of electrical tape. its kind of like the same thought with plumbing. Anything with threads they add a shitload of Teflon tape to reduce any leaks. Of course the idea is flawed and they usually always leak but that's a different subject altogether.

Originally Posted by JPPR2

I am not seeing the terminal block method used in the US. Depending on how many wires are being pulled to a wall outlet this could create a huge space concern.

In the UK with power sockets it's not really an issue because most circuits are ring circuits and all connections are made in the socket. An added radial spur would also likely be connected to the same point. For lighting circuits, junction boxes would be used if necessary. They would be located in the attic space or under the floorboards.

Originally Posted by JPPR2

In the end either method works well with no issues.

Exactly. It's just a matter of accepted usage in the different countries.

My build was wired by an absolute cowboy... random wire colour, faulty installation, did not follow correct procedures, did not follow plans or instructions correctly, and over half of his installation failed when the power was connected up, but still he wasn't fired by my builder (I'm guessing he is some sort of relative). It got to the point that I couldn't even mention the words "wiring" or "electrics" to 'er indoors without it all kicking off. I lost all the lights to my outbuilding last week, waiting for my builder to come back and fix it and I'm hoping he doesn't turn up with the Lone Ranger or I won't be held responsible for my actions!

Originally Posted by Troy

Rural Thailand has a TT system

This is not entirely the case and it would be wise to check with your local PEA first. TN-C-S is the earthing system that is being adopted in Thailand. It is exactly the same as in Aus and the UK. The PEA have a booklet explaining earthing and is very useful to have a copy (to show your local sparky how it's done).

You can also have a look at the poles along the soi and if you see every 4 or 5 poles with a cable strapped to the ground then it is likely a TN-C-S system. Basically this is the neutral being grounded at multiple points from the transformer to the user.

If your area is TT then you shouldn't earth the neutral coming in to the breaker box. Earths and neutrals remain independent and RCD's or RCBO's are installed to protect your circuits (and you). The earth is staked in the ground. There are some disadvantages with this system, one being the neutral can be a few volts above ground. You also need to understand the earth loop impedance because if this is too high and the RCD or RCBO were to fail, the main breaker may not trip with a live-ground fault. This is not a nice scenario. Hence regular testing of RCD's and RCBO's is a must. If you're in a TT area the focus should be on good quality functioning RCD's or RCBO's and personally I wouldn't be too concerned about earthing the home as most appliances are double insulated.

With the TN-C-S system the incoming neutral is connected to a neutral-earth link and the earth is staked to the ground. All your circuit earths are connected to this neutral-earth link. The live and neutral outputs from the RCD or RCBO feed their respective circuits and it is really important to wire these correctly.

I'm going to wire up a new home next week. The home is in rural Thailand (Isaan moo baan) and the earthing system is TN-C-S. I have purchased good quality RCBO's from Aus costing about $400. The locals may think this is too expensive but in this case the extra $$ is worth it.

The info above is just a little as there is still a lot to consider when earthing a home. My advice would be to ask the local PEA.

Originally Posted by terry57

I thought lecky went down the live wire and returned via the Neutral wire and continued around like that. ???

Terry you are correct - lecky flows down the live wire and back along the neutral wire, but because the transformer neutral is earthed then lecky may like to take a short cut back through the ground (if this is the least resistive option).

Having just built and recently got a connection from the PEA the regulations now require that all new builds have RCBO/RCD protection for the whole house and a MEN link at the incoming supply with a properly placed 2 meter earthing rod.

Personaly I added Ufer grounding to that.

Of course there will be old installations that don't have this. If you check you should see that the some of the PEA poles have earth connections

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

For the sake of peace of mind, offer a local UK electrician a two-week holiday in your house... he'll have it sorted in a day probably... price of a flight is what you might pay anyway to have it redone after it scares you...

I have a qualified UK sparkie and a Thai that seems to know what he's doing, huge difference in daily rates...eeni meeni?

this indicates a Neutral-Earth connection

https://www.pea.co.th/ความรู้เกี่ยวก...ิน