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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatic View Post
    There lay the problem. It doesn't, it just makes the earth live.
    It seems that your earth wasn't really earthed.

  2. #27
    Fresh Seaman CaptainNemo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    Wasp, you do not need to overdo your fear from electricity (and from Thai workers either).

    What kind of appliances are you going to deal with? Almost all of them are nowadays with full plastic body, so no danger to your body.
    Exception a water heater (if any), or some other heater.

    Yes a proper grounding of the neutral should be made at the main board (or wherever the first few breakers are installed).
    And if a separate grounding is made to the body of the heater, the better. Then, a separate earth leakage breaker 30A is good to be installed at the incomer of the heater.

    If you have all this, you do not need to think about a rewiring your house for your temporary stay (how many weeks?).

    There are much worse situations to be worried about in Thailand than the electricity...

    (You can believe me, I am an electrical engineer. And you surely know the saying: "The shoemaker's wife always goes barefoot").
    I defer to Klondyke, I am only familiar with small industrial/electronic stuff on ships and rigs, I know nothing about houses, swapping a few faceplates in the wall is probably no fuss, but I would not be happy to just leave someone to it with the bathroom and kitchen in Thailand, that's as much about my concern about water and lecky. I'd be inviting them to do the fabled "tongue test" to prove it's safe (i.e.: tell the Thai sparky the best way of proving there's no fault is to lick it)
    I've seen the engine rooms of Thai vessels and they are comically terrifying. I guess you might want an RCD box like under the stairs in the UK? Maybe we should throw up some pics and diagrams and make a proper thread of it?!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1F2i0rYMj8

    we are all figments of our own imagination.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by pseudolus View Post
    How's that editing working out for you waspie?
    Not very well pseudeee .

    Really should check .

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by terry57 View Post
    Anyway Waspy,

    I thought that ya posted up that you and ya Bint were finished.
    Essentially we are . But there was no big fight . Someone wrote once how you get involved with someone and all their little differences are sweet . Character differences . Until they become a bit annoying and finally drive you f*****g demented .

    We started at Hampton Court . A brilliant place with many hundreds of years history . One of the historical gems . She had no interest .
    She wanted to wait in the gardens and Group Talk on Facebook .

    At home ...... doesn't matter how many times I speak ....... the noodles and chopped vegetables STILL go down the sink until they block it and I'm taking it apart every 3 weeks .
    Novel foreign quirks become good reasons for murder .
    So we have separate lives now .
    I didn't do the big " Get Out ! " scene . That's not fair to someone whose ticket you paid for in the first place . I'm easing her back into Thailand --- and the shitty electrics bother me .


    Wasp

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp View Post
    How Do I Earth the House ?
    You are not really embracing Thai culture or getting into the Thai way of life if you are worrying about stuff like earthing your house.

    Just live dangerously and not ting too mut.

    You always have another life if this one is tragically cut short by some dodgy electric shower wiring

  6. #31
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    Wasp
    I just sent you a PM not sure if it worked or not let me know if you get it.
    Cheers

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Latindancer View Post
    I was fiddling with the hot water heater in the shower in my Bangkok condo a few years ago. So firstly I disconnected the power. I saw that it had an earth leakage device fitted, and these things cut off the current in micro-seconds in case of any kind of leakage.

    But on looking closely I saw that it was hooked up to the non-active lead......when it should be on the active lead. I could have got fried by the electric shower heater at any frigging time.

    Or worse still, I could have come home to find the wife dead in the shower.
    Now THAT'S what I call a reassuring Post ! thanks LD .


    Wasp

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    If you need to ask then don't. Get someone who knows what they're doing instead.
    Well you're right .

    Of course.

    The difficulty is finding someone . I trust the Thais 0.001% .

    I like them . They're fun --- but I've experienced thai standards of work .


    Wasp

  9. #34
    Thailand Expat terry57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looper View Post

    You always have another life if this one is tragically cut short by some dodgy electric shower wiring
    And not to mention that 1 in 3 Thais figure that if they get Electrocuted it was meant to be and a proper Earthing system would not of saved them .

    They are so fooked ya just gota let them be.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    Wasp, you do not need to overdo your fear from electricity (and from Thai workers either).

    What kind of appliances are you going to deal with? Almost all of them are nowadays with full plastic body, so no danger to your body.
    Exception a water heater (if any), or some other heater.

    Yes a proper grounding of the neutral should be made at the main board (or wherever the first few breakers are installed).
    And if a separate grounding is made to the body of the heater, the better. Then, a separate earth leakage breaker 30A is good to be installed at the incomer of the heater.

    If you have all this, you do not need to think about a rewiring your house for your temporary stay (how many weeks?).

    There are much worse situations to be worried about in Thailand than the electricity...

    (You can believe me, I am an electrical engineer. And you surely know the saying: "The shoemaker's wife always goes barefoot").
    Now that's a properly reassuring Post !!!!

    Thanks Klondyke .


    Wasp

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainNemo View Post
    I defer to Klondyke, I am only familiar with small industrial/electronic stuff on ships and rigs, I know nothing about houses, swapping a few faceplates in the wall is probably no fuss, but I would not be happy to just leave someone to it with the bathroom and kitchen in Thailand, that's as much about my concern about water and lecky. I'd be inviting them to do the fabled "tongue test" to prove it's safe (i.e.: tell the Thai sparky the best way of proving there's no fault is to lick it)
    I've seen the engine rooms of Thai vessels and they are comically terrifying. I guess you might want an RCD box like under the stairs in the UK? Maybe we should throw up some pics and diagrams and make a proper thread of it?!
    I'm deferring to everybody and will look around for somebody a bit reliable . There's a big Global House in Korat . Maybe find a sparky in there .

    Many thanks .


    Wasp

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ootai View Post
    Wasp
    I just sent you a PM not sure if it worked or not let me know if you get it.
    Cheers
    Well HELLO OOTS !!!!!!!!

    Long time no anything !

    If PM is Private Message .... then no . No message from you there .

    Happy New Year OOTS and ALL !!!!


    Wasp

  13. #38
    Thailand Expat Pragmatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
    It seems that your earth wasn't really earthed.
    Correct. And no one spotted the neutral being connected to the earth in the consumer unit. I must have had at least 6 electricians(?) who failed to spot the error. Even had a couple of sparkies who suggested a complete rewiring job.

  14. #39
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    ^ Do you have an RCD fitted? If so, I am surprised it didn't trip whenever you drew a lot of current

  15. #40
    Thailand Expat Pragmatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    Do you have an RCD fitted? If so, I am surprised it didn't trip whenever you drew a lot of current
    Yep we have a RCD fitted and it did trip occasionally but no one could understand why. It was/is only hindsight that tells us the earth wasn't earthed properly.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by terry57 View Post
    Yer, My Handbag knows shit about electricity like most Thais and considering our washing machine is connected to a socket with no Earth it's a bit of a worry.

    Fookin hate these dumb arsed Somchais and more so the Law that lets any coont do leccy work with no consequence.

    The Educated Thais are OK though.
    We had the same problem in one house we lived in so put an earth spike as close to the washer as possible and ran a earth wire direct, easy enough in a house - your kinda fcuked if your in a condo though?

  17. #42
    Thailand Expat David48atTD's Avatar
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    Couple of things to note.

    Not ALL neutral bars are earthed. There are systems with what is called a 'Floating Earth'.
    They exist in Thailand. I'm not saying they are safe ... but they exist.

    Next thing to note.
    If the appliance is 'Double Insulated' it doesn't need 'Earthing'





    Residual Current Device (RCD) / Earth-leakage circuit breaker (ELCB) are a great idea because they go to the essence
    of why someone get electrocuted but ...

    1/ they are usually on the 'Power' Circuit and not the lighting circuit/mixed circuit and

    2/ they often have 'nuisance tripping' and consumers get frustrated and disconnect them.

    For me, they are an essential electrical safety item (and saved my arse once when dumb David stuck
    a metal knife into the toaster to free the stuck bit of bread')



    To Wasp ... your focus seems to be on the actual 'Earth Spike' into the ground', but that's totally useless if there
    isn't the powerpoint itself isn't earthed and connected to the earth network.
    sort of like tying a rope to the tractor and not trying the rope to the load and driving off.

    You have a wonderfull knot and rope (euphemism for the Earth Spike), unless it's connected, it's useless.

    ---

    Fifth and final Ashes Test is on, so back to my Holidays.

    HAPPY NEW YEAR to one and all.

    Our fingerprints never fade from the lives we touch

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by David48atTD View Post
    Not ALL neutral bars are earthed. There are systems with what is called a 'Floating Earth'.
    They exist in Thailand. I'm not saying they are safe ... but they exist.
    Rural Thailand has a TT system. The source, at the power station is earthed but nowhere else. That is, not at the transformers etc. so connecting the neutral and earth is not a good idea, This is okay for TN-S earthed systems, possibly used for apartment blocks in Bangkok but not for TT systems in rural areas. A protective earth is isolated from live and neutral and only comes into play when there is a fault. It must be used in conjunction with an RCD, which will trip if there is a difference in current between Live and Neutral (usually ~30mA).

    The typical consumer units here have a single RCD that covers all circuits rather than individual circuit ones, which are pretty expensive. The individual circuit breakers will protect the circuit wiring but not you. They will however detect a straight short between Live and Neutral, which the RCD will not.

    At a minimum, I would get an RCD consumer unit fitted and have it wired to an earth rod (~ 6ft copper rod) using 10mm cable (check the biggest size that will fit to the consumer unit). I would use 3*2.5mm wire for sockets that are used for water or high current devices (eg kitchen appliances). You can stick with 2*1.5mm for the light circuits without worry.

    If you want a shower installed then check the power rating and wire according to the installation instructions. The low power ones can be fitted with 3*2.5mm but the high power ones require 4mm and a separate 6mm earth.

    If you get someone to do the work for you then here are some items to check, as a minimum:

    1. Check the live is the live coming from the outside meter to the consumer unit and tape it red at both ends for future reference
    2. Check isolation between earth and neutral and earth and live on at least one socket per circuit
    3. Plug in a kettle or other high current device (>5A) on each circuit and ensure the RCD doesn't trip
    4. I would put 2-pole isolator switches on any fixed high power installation such as Air Conditioning, shower or oven. Thais put in 30A CBs but these are not designed for switching on and off all the time. I like the 2-pole switches with a red light that you get in the UK.

    The RCD in our house has saved at least two Thai electricians and saved me on one occasion. I have had wrongly wired plugs, short circuits and dogs eating through my cables with a resulting spark and little else.
    Last edited by Troy; 07-01-2018 at 01:35 PM. Reason: typo

  19. #44
    Thailand Expat terry57's Avatar
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    ^

    Good info mate but for punters who know very little about Electricity it's gobbly gook.

    Good post anyway.

    Thanks.

  20. #45
    Valve Master Latindancer's Avatar
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    I agree....good info, and thankyou Troy. But it's mainly the first paragraph which is gobbledegook for the layman :

    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    Rural Thailand has a TT system. The source, at the power station is earthed but nowhere else. That is, not at the transformers etc. so connecting the neutral and earth is not a good idea, This is okay for TN-S earthed systems, possibly used for apartment blocks in Bangkok but not for TT systems in rural areas. A protective earth is isolated from live and neutral and only comes into play when there is a fault. It must be used in conjunction with an RCD, which will trip if there is a difference in current between Live and Neutral (usually ~30mA).
    It kinda throws peoples' minds into a spin, making the rest appear difficult. But the rest is reasonably understandable.

  21. #46
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    ^ & ^^ My apologies, I will try and explain a little more, in layman's terms. The different types of supply earthing system can be found on wiki or any google search for TT earth. A link for those interested:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthi...ctive_earthing

    Note that in the diagrams they have L1, L2 & L3, which are the 3 phase outputs. Only one of those phases is usually supplied to any one house and is why you sometimes have one half of a street with electricity and one half without.

    I wanted to start by saying that it is not always wrong to connect earth and Neutral at the consumer unit. For example, I believe it is typical in many parts of the USA but it's dependent on the way the supply is brought to your house.

    It is much cheaper for electrical companies to supply using a TT Earth system where only the Live and neutral are output from the generating source and it is up to the consumer to provide his own earth. These systems should always have the additional protection of an RCD. I know they are used in rural Thailand but I can't say what is used in cities or in Bangkok. Judging by the electrocutions in Pattaya that have been posted here over the years, I guess many are on TT Earthing systems there and have not had an RCD installed.

    I have to go ... Let me know if you want further info.

  22. #47
    Thailand Expat David48atTD's Avatar
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    ^ I didn't want to go into the depth that Troy did, but his above (#43) was a great post.

    A floating neutral is more common with a multi-phase set up.


    Troy, this one is for you if you've not seen it before.

    SWER ... Single Wire Earth Return, around in NZ and Australia


  23. #48
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    ^ No I haven't seen before. Apparently it's being used in Laos as well but I haven't seen any examples.

  24. #49
    Valve Master Latindancer's Avatar
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    What ??
    Jaysus....my grandfather described Single Wire Earth Return to me from when he was in the Telegraph Branch in outback Australia, 1915 or 1920 ! Only it was used for telegraphic transmission....morse code....then voice, not 240 volts.

    I didn't realize things were so primitive still. What happens when the ground dries out in a drought ?

  25. #50
    Thailand Expat terry57's Avatar
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    ^

    Got me fooked how a single wire works.

    I thought lecky went down the live wire and returned via the Neutral wire and continued around like that. ???

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