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  1. #101
    Member Thai Dhupp's Avatar
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    OK...I had a break from the story so far, as I was involved in a 2-day corporate audit on the 'day job' project. I'm frazzled, but we did OK.

    To make up for it, I will draft up the tale of the lease next and try to post that tomorrow, Then we will get into the design route to the final plans.

    In the Middle East, the day off is Friday, and this week we also have a Muslim-related day off for something or other, so a nice 2 day weekend ahead. Normally its a 6 day 10-hour/day week here minimum, starting on site at 7am - they don't give these massive tax-free salaries away for nothing anymore, y'know.

    I am on with organising (through the Chief negotiator) that fill material so that it can be placed when we go back in May.

  2. #102
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    Yes, I worked the same hours and days off in 1984-86 when the US had most of the hospital contracts in Saudi. With the free room and board, along with the tax free potential, it was still more cash than I could make back home. Plus, it put me closer to some interesting travel destinations.

  3. #103
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton
    We have a recent cost for fill thread. Will find it and link you.
    Can't find the damn thing. Price here in da hood was 200 baht per load 3 months back. Trucks are typical old beat up 5 cubic meter load variety.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton
    Price here in da hood was 200 baht per load 3 months back.
    Id say thats on the low end of what people would find IMO.

    There are apparently different grades of "good dirt" as well. Lots of clay & stones = cheap.

    Fertile fill dirt about 300 here for a 6 wheel truck.

  5. #105
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slick
    Id say thats on the low end of what people would find IMO.
    It is. 5km down the road folks pay 300 per load. Same dirt.
    Good dirt. Comes out of paddies. No stones but red clay as typical in area.

  6. #106
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    ^
    Maybe different sized trucks?

  7. #107
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    6 wheel trucks Rick.

    The 10 wheel trucks are quite a bit more expensive in my area.

    And then there are different prices for an all in job VS buying by the truck load.

  8. #108
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    It has been awhile since I have purchased fill dirt, so it is interesting to hear the actual current price and truck size. I hate to think how many truck loads of fill dirt I have purchased over the past ten years. It is a good racket since the company is usually receiving payment at both ends of the process.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickschoppers View Post
    Yes, I worked the same hours and days off in 1984-86 when the US had most of the hospital contracts in Saudi. With the free room and board, along with the tax free potential, it was still more cash than I could make back home. Plus, it put me closer to some interesting travel destinations.
    Yeah... Travelling TO places from the mIddle east is a real bonus. When u include the flights, Meds, car, fuel, accommodation in addition to the salary, and tax free too, the package in simply not comparable to UK.. My only regret is not making the move earlier in my career.

  10. #110
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    I would love to see some of the prices mentioned above! I guess that's the downside of building south of BKK in 2017... Best Princess Joy has secured so far is 800/ 8m3 load, of course including the levelling. That's speaking to three different suppliers. I told her to go back n get a discount based on the overall bulk fill or for if we exceed, say 100 trucks. One of the suppliers is through the OrBorTor and we are trying to keep him 'onside' for the longer term future.

    I'm not chucking unnecessary money away though...

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Norton
    We have a recent cost for fill thread. Will find it and link you.
    Can't find the damn thing. Price here in da hood was 200 baht per load 3 months back. Trucks are typical old beat up 5 cubic meter load variety.
    not to worry, Norton...thanks for looking.I could not find anything like that price down in Chonburi, but if anyone knows a supplier who can match or get near to the price here in Chonburi, I'm all ears...
    Last edited by Thai Dhupp; 22-04-2017 at 12:44 AM.

  12. #112
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thai Dhupp
    not to worry, Norton...thanks for looking.I could not find anything like that price down in Chinburi, but if anyone knows a supplier who can match or get near to the price here in Chonburi, I'm all ears...
    Doubt you'll get even close in Chorburi. Whole different world than up here. Average in Roiet near 350 baht. Also price varies seasonally. Cheapest just after rice harvest.
    Good luck but think we're looking at a fair chunk of change.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thai Dhupp
    if anyone knows a supplier who can match or get near to the price here in Chonburi
    Ah no way never gonna happen. My prices were out Isaan way and I'm Sure Nortons were probably the same rural type of price.

    Chonburi is gonna be pricy comparatively speaking and I have no idea what prices will be in that area.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thai Dhupp View Post
    I would love to see some of the prices mentioned above! I guess that's the downside of building south of BKK in 2017... Best Princess Joy has secured so far is 800/ 8m3 load, of course including the levelling. That's speaking to three different suppliers. I told her to go back n get a discount based on the overall bulk fill or for if we exceed, say 100 trucks. One of the suppliers is through the OrBorTor and we are trying to keep him 'onside' for the longer term future.

    I'm not chucking unnecessary money away though...
    Have your wife seek out another source. DO NOT have her mention she has a farang husband. Talk to someone outside the village or else you will pay a premium for the land. If we saw some trucks with loads of dirt, we would follow them to the source and I would have my wife negotiate a price while I stayed well out of site.

  15. #115
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    Good advice rick, I do the same. Thai dhupp comes across as a genuine guy but perhaps with the rose tinted glasses going on? Either way I'm happy to be proven wrong
    , I'm gettin a little bit jaded , sure hope he posts up his construction pics

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Thai Dhupp
    not to worry, Norton...thanks for looking.I could not find anything like that price down in Chinburi, but if anyone knows a supplier who can match or get near to the price here in Chonburi, I'm all ears...
    Doubt you'll get even close in Chorburi. Whole different world than up here. Average in Roiet near 350 baht. Also price varies seasonally. Cheapest just after rice harvest.
    Good luck but think we're looking at a fair chunk of change.
    Yeah... I think you are right. She checked three suppliers, all in the 750 a 1000 per load range

    I will have to get it back somewhere else in the build!
    Last edited by Thai Dhupp; 22-04-2017 at 11:49 AM.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slick View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Thai Dhupp
    if anyone knows a supplier who can match or get near to the price here in Chonburi
    Ah no way never gonna happen. My prices were out Isaan way and I'm Sure Nortons were probably the same rural type of price.

    Chonburi is gonna be pricy comparatively speaking and I have no idea what prices will be in that area.
    I know, Slick... Was a bit of wishful thinking only... We have done the initial research and are showing prices between 750 and 1000 a load. Such is life.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickschoppers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Thai Dhupp View Post
    I would love to see some of the prices mentioned above! I guess that's the downside of building south of BKK in 2017... Best Princess Joy has secured so far is 800/ 8m3 load, of course including the levelling. That's speaking to three different suppliers. I told her to go back n get a discount based on the overall bulk fill or for if we exceed, say 100 trucks. One of the suppliers is through the OrBorTor and we are trying to keep him 'onside' for the longer term future.

    I'm not chucking unnecessary money away though...
    Have your wife seek out another source. DO NOT have her mention she has a farang husband. Talk to someone outside the village or else you will pay a premium for the land. If we saw some trucks with loads of dirt, we would follow them to the source and I would have my wife negotiate a price while I stayed well out of site.
    I'm keeping right out of the way, as you suggest. It's how we do all of the negotiations. The only thing left to try is, as you say, check directly in the village, but for that we need to be there. As you know, we are in Abu Dhabi at the moment. I was hoping we could finalise it before we go back in May, so that it can all get done AND I can be there to monitor the whole operation! I don't know if we could get it much cheaper for those 8m3 loads... Maybe we can do a quick check on day 1, then finalise on day 2 ...still leaves enough time to do the work. We are back for 10 days only, before I return to do the final stint here in middle east
    Last edited by Thai Dhupp; 22-04-2017 at 11:50 AM.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by beerlaodrinker View Post
    Good advice rick, I do the same. Thai dhupp comes across as a genuine guy but perhaps with the rose tinted glasses going on? Either way I'm happy to be proven wrong
    , I'm gettin a little bit jaded , sure hope he posts up his construction pics
    No rose tinted specs being used here!

    Sorry if you missed the first few posts... I made it clear that I had a lot of things to get in place before the build would start, not least of which was me completing my current 'day job' work contract in Abu Dhabi so that I can fully supervise the work in Chonburi.

    Of course no 'construction pics' can be posted from Thailand if the build has not yet started and I'm not yet in place! Rest assured though that once it does start, you will soon get fed up of too many pics on a daily basis... I'm also a photographer and intend to capture this build from start to finish in as much detail as possible!

  20. #120
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    8 cubic meters is a 10 wheel truck right? And that's about 800 baht a truck?

    Not all that bad if it's a 10 wheel unit.

  21. #121
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    Last year I paid 280-350 baht per 3m2 small truckload (couldn't get a large truck down the lane to my land), this was for general agricultural rice paddy land fill, no rocks or rubble in it. The material varied from clay chunks with an alluvial sand matrix to something approaching topsoil, which was darker and contained no clay. I'm 26kms out of Chiang Mai, so your quote of 800 baht for 10m2 is pretty good considering your location.

    Being a bit lazy, I haven't read everyone's posts yet, so at the risk of looking like an idiot, I'll just blurt this out even if it has already been mentioned, that it's important to know which part of the land you are going to be building your structures on and make sure the crappy land fill material goes there.. any areas where you know you will be planting trees/crops etc, reserve the better soil (if available) for those areas, even if you will be using raised beds and adding in more soil at a later date.

    My neighbour made the mistake of not specifying this, as he was away when his land was raised, and now he has a real struggle on his hands getting things to grow in/on the clay and boulders that is his garden.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slick View Post
    8 cubic meters is a 10 wheel truck right? And that's about 800 baht a truck?

    Not all that bad if it's a 10 wheel unit.
    It's a high-sided 6-legger or low sided, smaller 8 legger

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyenglish View Post
    Last year I paid 280-350 baht per 3m2 small truckload (couldn't get a large truck down the lane to my land), this was for general agricultural rice paddy land fill, no rocks or rubble in it. The material varied from clay chunks with an alluvial sand matrix to something approaching topsoil, which was darker and contained no clay. I'm 26kms out of Chiang Mai, so your quote of 800 baht for 10m2 is pretty good considering your location.

    Being a bit lazy, I haven't read everyone's posts yet, so at the risk of looking like an idiot, I'll just blurt this out even if it has already been mentioned, that it's important to know which part of the land you are going to be building your structures on and make sure the crappy land fill material goes there.. any areas where you know you will be planting trees/crops etc, reserve the better soil (if available) for those areas, even if you will be using raised beds and adding in more soil at a later date.

    My neighbour made the mistake of not specifying this, as he was away when his land was raised, and now he has a real struggle on his hands getting things to grow in/on the clay and boulders that is his garden.
    Thanks Jonny, and good call.

  24. #124
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    THAT LEASE

    ok.... Time to continue the story that leads up to the build itself..

    Not long after the. Land purchase, it was time to put the lease into place, in effect giving me control ( well, as much control as Thai law allows) over what we were going to do with the land.

    This of course involved drafting up the lease itself, getting it translated and submitting it into records at the land office.

    Princess Joy was on board with it. Of course I was. We (I) drafted what I wanted, and we got it translated. Out next port of call was the land office in Chonburi, near to Chachenseao. We employed the series of a solicitor to do the deed, thus having someone of legal standing on hand in case there were any last minute questions, and also allowing me to stay ' in the shadows' and not draw attention to myself too much.

    Thus it was that the lease was submitted to the front desk, but immediately there was an issue. The land office wanted to know where she had got the money to purchase all this land? Of course we had rehearsed that question but they needed evidence, some we had some we did not. End result was... No lease just a follow up appointment.

    Some scrabbling round back home came up with enough funding evidence to show it had been possible to buy the land.

    So back we went for trip 2 complete with solicitor again and enough money to pay for whatever it. Some discussions took place, lengthy discussions, and after, they came to tell me the (bad) news.... Such leases were not available! The military jun.... The prime minister had decreed that such leases gave to much power to Falangs. Of course I pushed them to renegotiate. In the end, it was the solicitor only, and finally, he came out with papers to sign with witnesses, and "all was ok"

    We had been there all day, I was tired so it was not until we were driving back to BKK that I looked at that 'lease'.

    Man, I blew up immediately. Not 30 years, 3 years local lease, no real worth, certainly not what I wanted. I told him clearly he would not be getting paid for this...excuse and it was a long drive back in silence. I was fuming.

    Later, PJ discussed what had happened. There WAS pressure in the land office to deter long leases for foreigners, but it was not impossible. He had thought something better than nothing so had not been forceful AND he thought he was helping the Thai (PJ) not sign away too much to the falang!. Hmmmmmm, you can guess how she took to all that.

    Appointment 3 was made, solicitor was under no illusions that we would not be leaving without a 30 year lease. We also spoke to the big boss in the area about if there were any shortcuts in the process? A couple of calls later, he told us to go to 'desk 5' and speak to Ms. Xyz ( sorry I forget the name),' slip her 1000 and all would be sorted out. Hmmm mmmm..OK... Let's see. We followed the instructions and all seemed to be going to plan when....

    ... We were all( me too) called to see the senior Officer in connection with the lease request. The same comments were passed about cutting down on leases, credit to Princess Joy she was fighting the cause, the solicitor was useless tbh. We were then asked to wait outside while she consulted......( Lord knows who)

    I started to get that feeling.. You know the one, where you just know what's about to happen....After 10 minutes, solicitor and PJ were called, almost immediately came back and said, it could me made to happen if a small err... Payment' was made.

    How much? Says I

    5000 came the reply.

    That's where I made my biiiiiig mistake.
    I said yes ok... But.. I said it tooooooo quickly!

    Back they went with the good news. Oops back they came, in 60 seconds, it was not 5000, now it was... 30,000!

    Damn! But... I had to have it, so I had to agree.

    30k for 30 years... Still not too bad but there it was.. My first experience of back handing a deal through.

    Money was paid, and lease was then duly acknowledged and added to the Chanote. We also got the chief officer to agree to assist us in the future, should we need it. More on that later.

    So, one bri... Payment made, one lease secured.

    Onward, ever onward...

  25. #125
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    The first thing you needed to know is how land offices work. There are many back door deals made and you also need to be persist. When we went to our land office to have the name changed on the deed for our four rai to my wife's name, there was the same lengthy conversation about where the money came from. Luckily, the old man who sold us the land was a family friend and he supported the story that the money was my wife's.

    The old man was told he could leave. Then more lengthy questioning with my wife when she was asked for another 30,000 to the officer to make it happen. My wife said she did not have the money. This went on a couple more times until the officer begrudgingly stamped the approval. Shaking down land owners seems to be the MO of land offices and you just got fed into that process.

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