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  1. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKKBILL View Post
    Wasp, here is a start for your search. Koman, BD and all the rest are right no matter where you should be protecting yourself. Many farang rent as it is not that costly, possibly renting your place back home that should cover most of the cost of living here taking away that “ can’t go home worry.

    Turtles indeed

    Thailand Usufruct Agreement - Interactive Thailand

    Well BKK ........ I simply copied the line above - put it in Google - and it came up with a firm of legals offering to draw this up and at the same time explaining what it is .
    Effectively giving a lifetime's guarantee of { ownership } and enjoyment of the land or house and even offering effective leasing beyond your lifespan.

    Which these legals offered to do at a cost of 8 500 Baht .

    I've never heard of it .

    I don't know of anyone who has one [ which is pretty obvious if I've never heard of it ] .
    Have you got one ? Looks like koman has this . Anyone else out there ? Roob ? Stevefarangyourlordship ? Bettyboo ? Ootai ? Anyone at all ?

    Thank you BKK and koman . It's very reassuring and I'll read up a lot more about it .



    Wasp


    ...........................................

  2. #177
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    ...............

    Photos !!! Photos !!!! I have Photos !!!!



    Returning to the Renovation Thread .............

    I am in the UK and Missy is in Thailand .

    I said during the building thread that I wouldn't bother with photos of materials being delivered and rebar being sunk into poured concrete . That's actually because we didn't have any such photos .Materials were delivered . She saw them . But there is certainly some doubt about the strength , type , or even existence of much of the rebar . And Missy didn't take photos and I wasn't there .

    At the time of the construction I was represented in Thailand by my Nationwide Building Society Debit Card . Missy got more credit in the neighbourhood walking around with that than if she had been walking around with me .

    In the early days she wouldn't even walk around with me!
    I remember on my first morning as I expected to look around her village she took me instead across the fields to look at the local Wat Crematorium .
    Which was both unnerving and a bit interesting .

    However on the second morning she did the same.

    And on the third .

    It takes me 3 days to get suspicious but I balked at the idea of a fourth visit to the local Buddhas .Then I found out what was going on .
    Over the years she owed everybody in the village some money ! ... Never a lot . But she owed everybody .
    None of them ever expected to get their money back - which is a very kind thing when you think of it - but she knew if they saw her with a farrang .... KERCHIIINGGG !!! $$££$$££$$££$$££$$££ !!!!!




    So back to the build -

    No photos of 25 year old lorries with no suspension delivering 8 tons of gravel .
    But I knew there existed some other photos and she found them in Thailand .

    SO ....... Daa Daaaa ......... >>>> The Bikini !!!

    First view is exiting upstairs onto the bikini .........





    ........ and the second is MY lounger and a view towards the house of the Old Granny and Old Grandy ( which I might add for Roobarb ...it's a big place and we will indeed be selling it ! ). And note the special treat . TWO Roman Kings on the bikini .





    The next photos I must go and scan again . Because when Missy said she found the photos ( actual physical photos ) I said " Great . Please send them to me. "

    And she did . In a yellow envelope from Thailand !

    I thought she would email them but that's all still a land of magic and mystery to her.
    Electronics are all invisible . Like GHOSTS .Scarey.

    So she took me at my word and sent them to me and I have to scan . Coffee and scanning ahead .



    .... Wasp

    ............
    Last edited by Wasp; 31-01-2014 at 02:23 AM.

  3. #178
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    Good to see it all coming together .

  4. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasabi View Post
    Good to see it all coming together .
    Thank you wasabi .

  5. #180
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    At the end of my first stage of this build I got to the point where I could show the huge changes Missy had made to her little home .

    That took me to here .............









    Beyond the balcony you could see there was another extension built .
    This is an example of where Missy's good nature was trounced on by the builder ... who is her cousin .

    I was not there .

    He fairly insisted to her that the house would be out of balance without this extension . He was just the man to do it .... and she didn't have the determination to argue . So with me in England it went ahead .






    Here's the view at the back of the house as this build took place .
    Straight ahead you're looking at the back of the kitchen on the ground floor and to it's right is the toilet/shower as we sneakily try to surround The Indolent Brother .

    Above the kitchen is still the original dwelling but the roof has been changed and the walls have been replaced with the white board .
    I suppose it's like Trigger in " Only Fools and Horses " who said he has had the same Council sweeping brush for 17 years !!!
    It's had 11 new heads and 8 new handles but it's the same brush !

    Over on the right is the obvious extension made of cement blocks and damn nearly vertical .
    Looking at the near section of that block-built area those walls will form a bathroom and the rest a large living area .


    Another angle from behind .




    This shows a bit later with the wall of the upstairs extension completed . The glass blocks in the diamond shape denote the bathroom .

    It also shows a problem I'm going to have .

    Because the kitchen roof is simply an extension of the original it has ended quite low ... but it's acceptable .
    However - just as Bettyboo predicted some time ago - I'm going to build above that soon . And the original high roof would become too low if extended . So I don't know how to deal with roofing a new first floor .
    I've not explained that well .
    I'll try again later with some other photos .


    Now ...... moving around to the front of the extension ............




    A glorious gathering here of 15 Roman columns . ( I still say they are Greek ).

    On the Ground floor smack centre is the room of the Indolent Brother ... which he has now vacated in favour of the abandoned Rice Store .
    Ground floor at the back is the toilet/shower .At the rear of the first floor you can see another bathroom and then at the front is the bedroom .

    I don't like any of this work really - but it wasn't mine anyway. Missy is now very sorry she had so much done and would like to go smaller .
    But I plan to build in that area on the left to give myself a workshop and a farang-style living area . I've no confidence in the strength of any of that work but when I attach on in that area it will support it.

    And now a joyousness of colour .........



    How appealing is that collection of colours ????

    That extension was supposed to be new stuff . The fascia boards right up under the roof edges look about 40 years old .


    Just 3 guys working today . One to apply the White and the Blue and also try to get rid of a half tin of Pink paint left over from some other job.

    One who is clearly a Ladder Stander Oner .

    And one whose job was to make sure the Greek Columns didn't go all the way up .

    In an earlier Thread I stood up for some of the Thai workers . But I look at these and I wonder what I was drinking that day .


    ............... Wasp


    .........................................
    Last edited by Wasp; 31-01-2014 at 05:39 AM.

  6. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp
    Which these legals offered to do at a cost of 8 500 Baht .
    There are plenty of law firms who will arrange a Usufruct for you...and like lawyers everywhere they will charge you as much as they can get away with.....

    One thing you must do, if you should decide to take advantage of this ancient and well established method of securing rights of occupancy, is to ensure that the agreement is drafted in both Thai and English. The English version should be a proper translation stamped and certified by an official translator. Something translated by the TEFler across the street won't do...so spend the extra few bhatski's and get the big official red stamp of the fucker....

    (all this costs a bit more, but signing legal contracts in Thai; with content that I don't have any understand of, is not something I feel very comfortable about for some strange reason...)

    The one I use actually has an additional clause which states that in the event of any dispute over language interpretation the English wording shall prevail..... Now, I don't know if that would actually stand up in a Thai court, but I think it would maybe give you an edge.

    I have had discussions about these legal remedies on other forums and as you might expect there are lots of armchair experts out there in the farang community who will tell you that they are useless....nothing works in Thailand....everything is loaded against you...etc etc.....but the proof of the pudding as they say is in the eating, and I've already had experiences of how they work in practice....so the armchair farangs can drone on as much as they like about how useless they are.....while they go on to expose themselves to all kinds of financial risk with no backup plan of any kind.

    We've all read countless tales of how poor farangs have come to Thailand, and lost "everything" to some shrew from an Isaan village who suckered them into building a miniature palace; buying them an SUV and so on.....but anyone who does these things for a woman who is just a GF, and then neglects to have any kind of enforceable contract in place, has to be way beyond naïve.

    It's true that you can not have clear title to land here, but you can maintain control over land via lease or Usufruct contracts....and you can of course legally own the building that sits on the land....or if you are desperate enough you can have 100% ownership of a condo....

    There is no white mans magic involved here....just common sense and a bit of diligence on the legal side of things. The Usufruct has been around since Roman times and was enshrined in Roman law....so it's not something a Thai law firm came up with to shaft unsuspecting London bankers....or even Sheffield plumbers....

  7. #182
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    koman ....

    ..." signing legal contracts in Thai; with content that I don't have any understand of, is not something I feel very comfortable about for some strange reason...) "


    One clear thing about your building work koman is that you are a very thorough man.Especially in preparation .
    I agree with absolutely all you have to say here about idiots being suckered and about your discomfort signing documents written in Thai .
    I spoke about my boss losing 20 million . It was more ..... and it all came down to his documentation being in Thai with no translations.
    He found out the day a Chinese woman turned up at his main condo with all the correct papers to show she now owned it .... having paid 5.5 million for a 6.5 million condo .
    As you say .... there are endless stories along similar lines . What made my boss's story special was the size of the numbers and me actually knowing the lady.
    [I knew she bet on Premier League games - but I assumed that was perhaps a 200 Baht on Chelsea to win . But she was placing 50 000 Baht on Liverpool at terrible odds even if they DID win ] !

    Your guidance here is worth diamonds to me . Never before heard of any of this .

    Many many thanks .


    ............. Wasp

    ...............

  8. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp
    One clear thing about your building work koman is that you are a very thorough man.Especially in preparation
    Well, thank you Wasp, very generous of you....

    I do tend to be a bit of a planner and although I'm willing to take risks in life, it needs to be well calculated risk.

    My building project has gone pretty well, mostly because of the project manager I contracted, rather than anything I've done myself....and of course the much better than average workers he has managed to bring on board. I could not have done this without him ( and them)

    The other piece of advise I would offer, for what it's worth, would be to spend a few years in Thailand and discover where exactly you would like to settle before launching into any construction project. There is a great deal to learn and many pitfalls that can be avoided by simply taking the time to get the lay of the land and getting a good feel for how things work here....and establishing contacts etc.

    Too many people become impatient and rush into their new surroundings without equipping themselves adequately to deal with the 1001 surprises that the LOS has to offer....

  9. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by koman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp
    One clear thing about your building work koman is that you are a very thorough man.Especially in preparation
    Well, thank you Wasp, very generous of you....



    The other piece of advise I would offer, for what it's worth,


    I assure you I think your advice is worthy !

    would be to spend a few years in Thailand and discover where exactly you would like to settle before launching into any construction project. There is a great deal to learn and many pitfalls that can be avoided by simply taking the time to get the lay of the land and getting a good feel for how things work here....and establishing contacts etc.

    I do heed anything you have to say koman . I do . I don't have a choice of looking around though . I never ever had any intention of going to Thailand at all . I was originally tracing my old boss who I thought was in Japan . Turned out he had moved from there to Thailand. So I went there . And during my visit I met Missy.Very poor .A tough life ( I know this is a million lives there ) but the most devastating smile just all the time.

    When I went to see her home it was outside Korat and I've been very happy with the area though it is getting bigger now . But all the folks there have been great .
    There are other farangs around but they seem to be unhappy reclusives . I've got on great with the people simply because I walk around , shop locally and ask " Sabaidee Mai ? " a lot .
    Of course I don't understand their answers .
    And it helps when the local youths sit outside a shop at night looking at football on a tv that's inside the shop . The Saturday game starts at 10pm and these guys have got no money . I want to watch the game too . Spend £2 buying and sharing 3 bottles of chilled Leo and these very same guys turned up in a battered pick-up when I had a flat tyre 8 miles away .

    Missy even advised me to take cold drinks to the 2 police in the small roadhouse. Which I do every now and then and they look out for me.
    Unfortunately one of them has bought a flexible wooden snake for about 15 Baht in Nonthai market . It's not realistic at all but Missy gave me the look saying " Just pretend " so I jump up dramatically in shrieking terror ! The police guys think that's brilliantly funny but I have to do it every bleeding time I go there when they hide the damn thing in a new place .

    But I am happy with the place . I like Dong who is the barber and Dang who cuts women's hair . I just want to meet a Ding and build a church .


    Too many people become impatient and rush into their new surroundings without equipping themselves adequately to deal with the 1001 surprises that the LOS has to offer....

    I am listening to what you say . And I appreciate it .
    As it happens I wouldn't want to live anywhere else in Thailand . Everybody here seems to be Missy's cousin and I'm not getting any of the " Walking ATM " attitude from the family .Far from it .The father keeps GIVING me land and just wants the occasional hundred Baht and the grandfather just wants Yeesipp Baht for whisky !!

    After hearing many other stories from around Thailand I feel I'm very lucky .

    And I feel a lot better about property thanks to your advice .


    ............Wasp.

    ...............
    Last edited by Wasp; 31-01-2014 at 05:12 PM.

  10. #185
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    ^my God, does this build never end?

    Started like this:


  11. #186
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    I'll stop it if you'd like Bettyboo.

  12. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp View Post
    The father keeps GIVING me land ...
    Gives it to you or gives it to Missy? I doubt it's you, Wasp, unless the law has changed recently.

  13. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp View Post
    The father keeps GIVING me land ...
    Gives it to you or gives it to Missy?
    Well you're right . He can't give the land to me . But he has a good piece of rice land in which Missy has dug a fish lake .When I started pondering building a new place next to water he just said ( via Missy ) I could take as much land next to the lake as I wanted . No charge . Quite unlike the more usual demands of Bahts of Gold that are made .

    Wasp

  14. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp
    I'll stop it if you'd like Bettyboo.
    Nope, carry on, it's fantastic. Very nice thread you have here, Wasp.

  15. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettyboo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp
    I'll stop it if you'd like Bettyboo.
    Nope, carry on, it's fantastic. Very nice thread you have here, Wasp.

    I thought you were cross Betty .
    And I always love your stuff .



    ....... Wasp

  16. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp
    I thought you were cross Betty .
    Not in the least, Wasp. Doing a build thread yourself, putting it our there blowing in the wind, so to speak, you get to appreciate and respect the other build threads all the more. They are all unique and interesting, but we've been lucky to have 5 or 6 really good and fun build threads on the go recently, and I'd certainly include this thread in that list.

    The diversity in our different build threads is great.
    Cycling should be banned!!!

  17. #192
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    Bettyboo : Not in the least, Wasp. Doing a build thread yourself, putting it our there blowing in the wind, so to speak, you get to appreciate and respect the other build threads all the more. They are all unique and interesting, but we've been lucky to have 5 or 6 really good and fun build threads on the go recently, and I'd certainly include this thread in that list.

    The diversity in our different build threads is great.


    Actually I agree with you .I love the diversity - but without the banter between you and Marmite , koman and Roobarb and lots more they wouldn't be the fun they are .
    Thought you were bored with Missy's missteps and all the cousins .

    And while you're around Betts .
    You taught me how to Post photos when I was struggling at the start of this . But sometimes the photos are coming up too big on the TD page .
    Others have photos showing up smaller . Do you know how I can do that ?
    My photos are always huge .

    Good Wishes .

    Wasp

  18. #193
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    Regarding photos, I've always opened mine via Paint then resized them at 2000 pixels at the biggest plane - this seems to make them a size which downloads to the TD gallery where I then save my pics that I use on TD.

    It does depend on each pic to a certain degree, and whether they are larger in the horizontal or vertical plane. Posters like Looper and Marmite know much more about this than I do, but I hope that helps.

    I do love the use of all these Greco-Roman 'power columns' on dual floors. They must really stand out amongst the local property!



    If you painted the entire property white then put a large icon on top, you could probably register as your own temple/place of importance.

  19. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp
    And while you're around Betts . You taught me how to Post photos when I was struggling at the start of this . But sometimes the photos are coming up too big on the TD page . Others have photos showing up smaller . Do you know how I can do that ? My photos are always huge .
    If you are using the TD gallery then follow Betty's advice above, if you can (it's all gobbledygook to me).

    I get the feeling that you're using Photobucket though. If so then you can get Photobucket to automatically resize your pictures to the 800 X 600 Teakdoor standard, that is if you're really feeling a bit self conscious about your size.

    Click on this link and all will be revealed:

    Upload Size Options – Photobucket Support

  20. #195
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    I do love the use of all these Greco-Roman 'power columns' on dual floors. They must really stand out amongst the local property!




    One of the major worries is that the builder-cousin doesn't seem to have bothered very much about lining up the upper columns to stand on the lower ones .
    Rarely do they align in the vertical .
    But if you stand well away ( a particularly good idea ) it all looks ok in photos.

    And yes it would stand out in the area except that it's set back behind other cousins houses so you don't see it from the road.
    And those cousins and aunts show their happiness for Missy by trying to stop us walking over their land to get to her patch !

    However!!!!! It does show up very clearly on Google Earth !!!

    Honest .


    W
    Last edited by Wasp; 01-02-2014 at 05:43 AM.

  21. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roobarb View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp
    And while you're around Betts . You taught me how to Post photos when I was struggling at the start of this . But sometimes the photos are coming up too big on the TD page . Others have photos showing up smaller . Do you know how I can do that ? My photos are always huge .
    If you are using the TD gallery then follow Betty's advice above, if you can (it's all gobbledygook to me).

    I get the feeling that you're using Photobucket though. If so then you can get Photobucket to automatically resize your pictures to the 800 X 600 Teakdoor standard, that is if you're really feeling a bit self conscious about your size.

    Click on this link and all will be revealed:

    Upload Size Options – Photobucket Support
    Much appreciated Roobarb.

    W

  22. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettyboo
    If you painted the entire property white then put a large icon on top, you could probably register as your own temple/place of importance.
    Well we already have Wat BD and now possibly Wat Wasp, we could start our own Order !! Then we wouldn't need usufructs thank God.

    It is looking so nice when you consider what you and Missy started with, I like your attitude very much when you tell us of your efforts to fit in. You don't have to do that much, like you said a Sabai Dee Mai goes such a long way.

    Well done Sir well done indeed
    SCROTUM PASS ME PISTOL

  23. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by bankao dreamer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bettyboo
    If you painted the entire property white then put a large icon on top, you could probably register as your own temple/place of importance.
    Well we already have Wat BD and now possibly Wat Wasp, we could start our own Order !! Then we wouldn't need usufructs thank God.

    It is looking so nice when you consider what you and Missy started with, I like your attitude very much when you tell us of your efforts to fit in. You don't have to do that much, like you said a Sabai Dee Mai goes such a long way.

    Well done Sir well done indeed
    Thank you bankao .

    There's a guy called LORR who stops on his little motorbike anytime he sees me near the shops and he just looks at me plaintively .

    Now I know damn well he can buy his own beer but one bottle costs me 40 Baht.
    For that 40 Baht Lorr goes to the ends of the Earth .... well maybe the end of Nonthai ...... if I need any help .

    Lots of smiling - Sabaii Dee Maii ? - a bottle of beer - and tricks .

    I can do 4 pretty good coin tricks which I've done countless times and these folks think it's just fantastic.

    Not hard to fit in with them at all .
    I can even sit outside the shop at 4:30 with a chilled beer and those deadly noisy slow tractor-powered diesel things turn the corner with 35 thirsty-looking workers crowded on the back . And they cheer " herro " and don't show any touch of jealousy .

    Fortunately they get round the corner before I have to buy 35 bottles of beer .

    And a bottle of whisky for the driver .

    Thanks bankao.

    Wasp
    Last edited by Wasp; 01-02-2014 at 05:46 AM.

  24. #199
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    Hi wasp, I'm new to your thread - very interesting thread you've got here, and the conversation was nice too. I read your thread from page 1 to the last, and didn't just skip to the last page to see the final product! I must say that I like those Greco-Roman columns. But please don't think of selling them to me, as I have no place to put them, and no $$ to buy them! I'm just a poor backpacker who wandered into the jungle that is TD. lol Good luck on all your ventures. Cheers!

  25. #200
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    No need to thank me Wasp old chap it is nice to read your little snippets regarding your interactions with the locals. I think when you finally stop hesitating and someone or something pushes you over the proverbial edge you will fit in and be very happy here.

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