Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 47
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last Online
    13-12-2017 @ 11:35 AM
    Posts
    119

    Building a crossover concrete water channel

    Hello group,

    In order to access my land plot I need cross a public concrete water channel that runs through my property some 30 meters from the road. It is a public waterway that supplies water for agriculture all year round from a nearby water reservoir.



    The water channel is at ALMOST ground level on one side of the land (near the bananas trees) and raises to a bridge of almost 2 meters high as the land goes downhill.

    Crossing under it is possible only for small vehicles up to 2 meters high,

    In order to cross over the aqueduct, i will need to fill up an access road ( just till the bananas trees in the following picture)



    the fill up will be 10m wide x 40m long x 1.5m high and will slope down nicely.
    creating a road that crosses the channel and turns left between the bananas trees and the big tree in this picture joining the road that crossed under the aqueduct and continuing straight for the entire length of the plot (400m)



    obviously i don't want to damage the water supply to my neighbors, so any advise on how to approach the crossover construction will be valuable.

    what would you do in this case?

  2. #2
    Thailand Expat
    DrAndy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Last Online
    25-03-2014 @ 05:29 PM
    Location
    yes
    Posts
    32,028
    dig the road deeper so larger vehicles can get under

    You may have to strengthen the aquaduct foundation supports on each side

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last Online
    13-12-2017 @ 11:35 AM
    Posts
    119
    it crossed my mind Dr. Andy as the most cost effective option, but in order to allow 6 or 8 wheeler in it would require a 2-3 m dig under the road level.... crossing over is an option more appealing to me... approximately how much higher would you fill in to hold the aqueduct safe under the road?



    this is a picture from the "other side" looking over to the street for extra perspective
    Last edited by aircut; 25-09-2013 at 03:43 PM.

  4. #4
    Lord of Swine
    Necron99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Nahkon Sawon
    Posts
    13,025
    What yu are talking about is basically a bridge that can handle 8 ton trucks.
    Thats going to require a proper engineer and some major construction.
    Is it not possible to convert a section of this aqueduct into an underground pipeline?

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last Online
    13-12-2017 @ 11:35 AM
    Posts
    119
    No Necron99, The aqueduct is a public asset and can not be messed with

  6. #6
    Thailand Expat
    VocalNeal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 01:16 PM
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    11,218
    How big is the channel and how full/deep is it normally? As one would have to calculate the volume of flow. Is there a slack period of a few days where disruption of water flow would be allowed? If not buy/rent a pump for the duration of the work.

    Water will always find it's own level so I would cut the channel, obviously block the ends, add an angled screen and put some suitable concrete or steel pipe say 1m-1.5m or whatever down in a gravel bed and put the road on top at whatever height you wish. The gravel will spread the load and allow big trucks over no problem. No bridge, no underpass, no nothing?

    As it will be your access point you are responsible for cleaning the angled screen !

    http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/st...oads/fig19.gif
    Last edited by VocalNeal; 25-09-2013 at 06:22 PM.
    Better to think inside the pub, than outside the box?
    I apologize if any offence was caused. unless it was intended.
    You people, you think I know feck nothing; I tell you: I know feck all
    Those who cannot change their mind, cannot change anything.

  7. #7
    Member
    Koetjeka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Last Online
    12-11-2015 @ 02:07 AM
    Location
    Chomphra (Surin province)
    Posts
    462
    My 2 cents:

    It's quite easy actually, since you don't want to make a tunnel (tunnels might be difficult to keep dry too), nor convert the aquaduct the only option is to build a bridge (unless you want to reach your piece of land from the other side of the aquaduct..)

    First I think you must ask yourself these questions:
    -How high and long does the bridge have to be?
    -What kinds of vehicles will go over the bridge (axle load and maximum loads)
    -Does the appearance of the bridge have to match the bridge's surroundings? (answer is probably yes)
    -How much do you want to spend on it? You have ugly bridges and "state of the art designed by Calatrava" bridges
    -What material(s) do you prefer? Steel / concrete / wood or perhaps bamboo?

  8. #8
    Thailand Expat
    DrAndy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Last Online
    25-03-2014 @ 05:29 PM
    Location
    yes
    Posts
    32,028
    Quote Originally Posted by aircut
    but in order to allow 6 or 8 wheeler in it would require a 2-3 m dig under the road level...
    bloody hell,I wouldn't let a masssive truck like that anywhere3 near my land

    building a bridge for that would be very expensive

    keep digging or just drop the aquaduct down under the ground and then up again

    the water will still flow with a U-bend if it is a big tube
    I have reported your post

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last Online
    13-12-2017 @ 11:35 AM
    Posts
    119
    the neighbors down the road just placed a concrete slab on top of the channel allow them full access



    i assume that it is technically called a bridge. they did not use any structural pillars to strengthen the bypass.

    what i thought was to level the land to the aqueduct for the width of the bypass. than having a concrete slab place on top of it, either having it thicker at the edges create an integral footing to distribute the weight or having concrete foundation pillars digged in for support



    (excuse moi for the drawing)

    i know that ideally i would just remove the entire structure and replace it with an underground pipe, but this is just not politically and legally possible, as the aqueduct is technically splitting my land and is build on public land.....

    dr. andy the heaviest vehicle to cross over would probably be during the construction phase where trucks and heavy equipment would be required on the premises....

    so i am looking for something like my neighbors did but with a better weight barring structure.
    Last edited by aircut; 25-09-2013 at 08:58 PM.

  10. #10
    Thailand Expat
    Roobarb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Online
    23-04-2016 @ 12:30 AM
    Location
    UAE
    Posts
    1,617
    If it was me I would simply dig out the two to three metres under the aqueduct to allow temporary access for large vehicles during the house construction phase. You can fill it back in again when they have finished (or turn it into a small pond). There is far less chance of the vehicles damaging the aqueduct if they are going underneath it than over it, especially if the ground around where they will be crossing over it has been recently filled.

    I would still fill the land to make a driveway as per your original plan, but at the crossover point add some extra support/footings under the channel. I'd then place a simple concrete slab over the channel, similar to the one your neighbours have used, as the long term solution - the premise being that once construction is completed nothing much bigger than a pickup truck will need to get to the house.

    If for some reason I found the need to bring an enormous truck in at a later stage then I would, er, cross that bridge when I got to it. By then hopefully the filled land for the driveway would have hardened enough to provide proper support to be able to lay a steel sheet or the like on top of the concrete slab to help carry the weight of the truck.

    Honestly I wouldn't 'tink too mutt' about the what ifs after the construction phase. It's not a big enough hole to damage a truck if in the off chance one ever does fall in, and so long as the extra footings have supported the base of the channel then repairing the channel walls should be a quick and easy job, if you ever had to do it.

    Imagine what your Thai neighbours would do in the same situation: lots of smiles; people coming to look at the truck in a hole, and help getting it out; a few beers/bit of food and, for a few extra bottles of Leo, ask someone from nearby to bring a bucket of cement and repair the thing a day or two later. Everyone is happy as an impromptu party has been had, a solution has been found and life in the village soon returns to normal.

  11. #11
    Thailand Expat
    VocalNeal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 01:16 PM
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    11,218
    Quote Originally Posted by aircut View Post
    it crossed my mind Dr. Andy as the most cost effective option, but in order to allow 6 or 8 wheeler in it would require a 2-3 m dig under the road level.... crossing over is an option more appealing to me... approximately how much higher would you fill in to hold the aqueduct safe under the road?



    this is a picture from the "other side" looking over to the street for extra perspective
    Did we solve this yet?

    I'm now thinking , using the picture above, build two large sand /gravel support on both sides and build a steel frame to span the narrow gap.



    If you could find some large trees?


  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last Online
    13-12-2017 @ 11:35 AM
    Posts
    119
    hello group. i owe you an update.
    the water channel is sitting on a land that was owned by a royal project nearby, and now handled by the cholopratan/tesaban. it cuts through my land about 3 meters width.

    i could not get any permits to fill the gap or dig dipper under their land. my only viable option is to build a full blown bridge gaping between the two land plots and rising over the channel about 1 meter.

    after consulting with civil engineers we elected for a steel based bridge and reinforced concrete road (25cm thick) 4 meters wide, that will span 5 meters over the channel. the bridge will stand a total load bearing of 60 tons (including the bridge weight itself)

    the cost of designing, getting the permits, and construction of a gravel road to and off the bridge, including building the bridge itself of course was agreed at 280,000 baht.

    how the price sounds to you? within range? good deal or way of the charts?

  13. #13
    Lord of Swine
    Necron99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Nahkon Sawon
    Posts
    13,025
    Left feild.
    Would they tolerate temporary suspension of water, like a few minutes at a time?
    I'm sure you could come up with a suspension bridge type setup that would seal and raise a section of the duct while traffic passed. it doesnt look very big.

  14. #14
    Member
    Koetjeka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Last Online
    12-11-2015 @ 02:07 AM
    Location
    Chomphra (Surin province)
    Posts
    462
    Quote Originally Posted by aircut View Post
    hello group. i owe you an update.
    the water channel is sitting on a land that was owned by a royal project nearby, and now handled by the cholopratan/tesaban. it cuts through my land about 3 meters width.

    i could not get any permits to fill the gap or dig dipper under their land. my only viable option is to build a full blown bridge gaping between the two land plots and rising over the channel about 1 meter.

    after consulting with civil engineers we elected for a steel based bridge and reinforced concrete road (25cm thick) 4 meters wide, that will span 5 meters over the channel. the bridge will stand a total load bearing of 60 tons (including the bridge weight itself)

    the cost of designing, getting the permits, and construction of a gravel road to and off the bridge, including building the bridge itself of course was agreed at 280,000 baht.

    how the price sounds to you? within range? good deal or way of the charts?
    Sounds like a huge rip off to me to be honest. Why does it have to be 4 meters wide anyway, is it going to be a 2 lane double deck bridge?

  15. #15
    Thailand Expat
    Roobarb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Online
    23-04-2016 @ 12:30 AM
    Location
    UAE
    Posts
    1,617
    Kind of echoing Koetjeka: do you really need a bridge?

    OK so it makes it easier to get trucks to where you will be building your house but Baht 280k pays for a lot of blokes and wheelbarrows. Once your house has been built you can easily drive underneath the aqueduct, 2 metres clearance is not bad and with a few well-timed blips on the throttle you'll soon dig it out another 20% or so.

    One question that came to mind is whether you have the right to build a permanent structure over someone else's land? I honestly know nothing about how Thai law works in this regard (or it has to be said, in any other regard either).

    I know you mentioned the 3 metre strip of land was now controlled by the tesaban, so assuming they are OK with the bridge then all should be good. The reason for concern is that it would be irritating if in years to come, having built an expensive bridge to access an expensive house, someone took a dislike to the setup.

    I'm sure you've looked into it all, just thinking out loud as it were.

    I'm rather hoping you do go ahead with building the bridge and sharing it on here purely for the selfish reason that it would make a good read...

    Good luck - and sorry this post doesn't answer your question...

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last Online
    13-12-2017 @ 11:35 AM
    Posts
    119
    just a minor clarification. the entire aqueduct structure is very weak and looks kinda crumbling. digging and reinforcing its structure will be 1. too risky. 2. i have no legal rights to dig on public property and renovate the tesaban/cholapratan property. digging under can cause the entire structure to collapse, putting us under a law suit and way more expanses in damages and repairs.

    the land is very beautiful, and investing in a good access way to the land is something that will only increase the land value substantially.

    and yes, we will ask permits from the owner of the aqueduct to build a bridge over it.

    i will keep updating this thread as we move forward with this part of the project.

    thank you for being there, i truly appreciate your input

  17. #17
    Thailand Expat
    VocalNeal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 01:16 PM
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    11,218
    A redimix truck is just over 3m wide that is why it needs to be 4m. If you don't want to get any construction equipment onto the property (lot of local building is done by hand) then you could reduce to 3m, which is still wide enough for a fire truck at 2.5-ish meters. In reality the width is of secondary importance as it is the span that dictates the engineering.

    Double and triple check the legal stuff, which of course you will. They'll all smile while you build it and it will be OK but should you ever decide to sell or upset the locals then...

  18. #18
    Member
    Koetjeka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Last Online
    12-11-2015 @ 02:07 AM
    Location
    Chomphra (Surin province)
    Posts
    462
    Quote Originally Posted by aircut View Post
    just a minor clarification. the entire aqueduct structure is very weak and looks kinda crumbling. digging and reinforcing its structure will be 1. too risky. 2. i have no legal rights to dig on public property and renovate the tesaban/cholapratan property. digging under can cause the entire structure to collapse, putting us under a law suit and way more expanses in damages and repairs.

    the land is very beautiful, and investing in a good access way to the land is something that will only increase the land value substantially.

    and yes, we will ask permits from the owner of the aqueduct to build a bridge over it.

    i will keep updating this thread as we move forward with this part of the project.

    thank you for being there, i truly appreciate your input
    Just make sure you get a good civil engineer, someone who can truly calculate the construction. You don't want your bridge to collapse because the engineer made some minor mistake.
    Also you want to use piles as foundation structure as the top layer of soil will never be able to bear 80 tons of weight, but I guess they'll know that too.
    If you'd like you can send us/me some drawings to take a look at, both for reviewing and education of our forum users.

  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last Online
    13-12-2017 @ 11:35 AM
    Posts
    119
    here is the initial drawing for the bridge

    the location


    the design


  20. #20
    Newbie
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Last Online
    18-03-2018 @ 07:38 PM
    Location
    nakhon phanom
    Posts
    39

    bailey

    As a retired engineer i would recommend a 1 span bailey bridge it holds >40.000 kg

    need only 4 solid foundation plates 1 x 1 m each(concrete, steel or wood)
    4 bailey panels and 4 trustbeams. 4 end posts and 6 deck layers
    They might be available in thailand (left from US during vietnam war)


    History of the Bailey Bridge | Modular Bridges | Compact 200 | Mabey Bridge

    lots of succes

  21. #21
    Thailand Expat
    Takeovers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Last Online
    Today @ 11:04 PM
    Location
    Berlin Germany
    Posts
    5,725
    I am not a civil engineer so my opinion would not count but this looks grossly overengineered to me.

  22. #22
    Thailand Expat
    crepitas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Last Online
    27-03-2017 @ 08:11 AM
    Posts
    1,964
    SIL bought a truck..her rubber farm with two houses was on the wrong side of a seasonal klong feeding a larger klong..went to local orbitor and they subsidised the concrete pipe and infill to about 80% and organized the construction work...guess you have already spoken to local admin?
    The area washed out recently and Orbitor fixed it for free within two days.
    That said, the bridge costs seem rather reasonable actually..we had a approx 400m concrete steep uphill road built at 130k....

  23. #23
    Thailand Expat
    VocalNeal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 01:16 PM
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    11,218
    My take would be the fact they produced a CAD drawing of the bridge suggests the project is overpriced already.

  24. #24
    Thailand Expat
    Roobarb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Online
    23-04-2016 @ 12:30 AM
    Location
    UAE
    Posts
    1,617
    Quote Originally Posted by sjeng View Post
    As a retired engineer i would recommend a 1 span bailey bridge it holds >40.000 kg

    need only 4 solid foundation plates 1 x 1 m each(concrete, steel or wood)
    4 bailey panels and 4 trustbeams. 4 end posts and 6 deck layers
    They might be available in thailand (left from US during vietnam war)


    History of the Bailey Bridge | Modular Bridges | Compact 200 | Mabey Bridge

    lots of succes
    There's a great little video of how they construct Bailey Bridges on that site:

    I learned something new, thanks Sjeng.

  25. #25
    Thailand Expat
    Takeovers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Last Online
    Today @ 11:04 PM
    Location
    Berlin Germany
    Posts
    5,725
    Quote Originally Posted by VocalNeal View Post
    My take would be the fact they produced a CAD drawing of the bridge suggests the project is overpriced already.
    I would not say overpriced. For a professional looking permanent solution it looks ok. But is a permanent professional looking solution what you need or want? I am sure for temporary access to the building site with trucks there would be a much cheaper solution.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •