Costs to develop house site.

[bushwacker]

I am hoping that all of the experienced builders and owners on this forum will share some valuable insights and help me make a decision. Here is the story ....

Currently living in Mueng Nakhon Sawan. We have stumbled upon some land for sale that is 20 minutes from the Mueng and about 6 minutes to a village supporting not one but two 7/11s and a market. There are a few Thai houses close which are newish of the block variety. Power and government water is available and a cement road is near.

Let me explain. Beside the road is a ditch about 3 meters wide and deep with water. On the other side of the ditch are rice fields. 3 friends bought 200 TW each, stacked, each owning their respective property with an accompanying red chanote. So if you can picture this, cross the road, jump the ditch into plot 1, walk thru plot 1 and you get to plot 2, keep walking and you hit plot 3. Now there is a government road planned or easement that runs along the 3 plots but has not been built.

If you are still with me, plot 2 and 3 are for sale at B100,000 each. I.e. total of 1 rai for B200,000 with 2 chanotes. The dude owning plot 1 is not looking to sell and wants to get a price like B300,000 although I am sure he is not wanting to sell and just talking thru a hole in his head.

If we bought plot 2 & 3 then we would need to establish the road which means (I am told) putting down large storm drains so water can pass, and placing soil to make the land bridge. I am concerned that this would have to be made to withstand truck traffic i.e. to build a house. So to all you gurus, any ideas of how these are built and how much they cost? I often see them along the highway when you pull into a gas station.

We would then need to build a dirt road to go as far as a few meters along plot 2. I would guess that this would only require some dirt and gravel and a tractor to level. Would this guess be correct and any ideas of cost for establishing say 30 meters of road?

Now comes the soil up process. A Thai builder currently working a 1/2 km way told the wife that it would cost less than B100,000 to add soil up to the road level for 1 rai. This would be about 1.5 meters. While we were looking at the land another dude came over and said he has a friend that drives a "soil-up" truck and each load costs B700 but if we were willing to do it over time we could pay half price. The deal would work that the friend would fill his truck up every night and on the way home which is near to the plot, drop off a load for B350. He is suggesting that over a month or so the top up would be finished. I am thinking that the time i.e. 30-40 truck loads would not be enough. And of course there is the problem of full or half full trucks. So what are your thoughts.

Finally comes the power poles. Electricity is currently running on the other side of the highway. I would think that we would need 3 poles if we were to build on plot 2. In Thailand, who pays for the poles? I am guessing the customer. Any idea of costs?

As I would like to make a well informed decision, all ideas and experiences are most welcomed. Thanks and Cheers.

[ootai]

bushwacker
If it were me, I would buy the front plot and save the problem of building a road.

If you want to fill 1 rai to a average height of 1.5 metres then you are going to need 2400 cubic metres of fill. If the guy said 100,000 then that would be only 42B per cubic metre. The price would more likely be 100B per cubic metre and then it would cost about 240,000. See the thread on "Fill prices" only a few threads down the page.

As for building the bridge, it would depnd on what diameter pipe you put in as to how much "dirt cover" you would need. I would expect you would need at least the same height of cover as the diameter but to be safe (for trucks) go for 2 times the diameter. The diameter would be determined by what flow the drain has to handle so that the water doesn't back up behind the drain and then overflow and wash away your dirt cover. If you don't have enough height to adequately cover the pipes with dirt it would need to have a reinforced concrete slab constructed over the top. That is, cover the pipes with dirt to provide a flat surface 1m past each side of the culvert (5m long) and then use lots of 10mm reobar (not shitty thin mesh) and concrete same as for a house pad.

As for the electricity poles, my missus was going to get the power run to our farm house but it was too expensive (can't remember the price , sorry). The poles would have been put in by the electric company.

So in summary, if it was me, and it isn't, I would look elsewhere.
But if you are determined that this is the place for you, then at least buy all 3 plots, build the bridge and fill whatever area you need for a house. Fill the rest later. The fill you save from needing a road will build you a house pad.

[Simon43]

Do I understand correctly? Access to plot 2 and 3 is via plot 1? If so, how do you propose to convince the owner of plot 1 to allow you access?

[DrAndy]

^ I think that is the pertinent point

If there is no road access, why should the owner of plot 1 allow one ... without cash being paid?

The price of his plot may well be worth it as there would be no access problems

[Marmite the Dog]

If there is no road access, why should the owner of plot 1 allow one

I think they have to allow access. At least that's what others on here have said in the past.

[sunsetter]

buy the 2 plots, fill, and wait for the government road to be built.

either that or do this

buy the front plot and save the problem of building a road.

[Albert Shagnastier]

If it were me, I would buy the front plot and save the problem of building a road.

I think that's your best bet too.
Add up the time taken, cost and possible future access headaches - worth spending a touch more now (buy 1 and 2) or getting only one plot (1) if that's all your budget allows.

[bushwacker]

Thank you all for your thoughts it is giving me something to think about and a headache.

Let me try to clarify my original post.

First, the owner of plot one (which I agree is the best because of direct access to the public paved road), is not really interested in selling. Owners of plot 2 and 3 want to sell for B100,000 each. They contacted their friend, i.e. Thai owner of plot 1 and he just tripled the B100,000 and said oh, if I sell then maybe 300,000 Baht. I suspect he is just pissing around.

Second, The chanotes are basically a square with a road easement on the east side. So, if you can picture each chanote is for .5 rai with an easement that lines up to form a future road. I would not need to talk to owner 1 about using his land because it is government land which runs beside plot 1, 2 and 3. The only problem is the road of course does not yet exist and my fear is it may not exist in my lifetime as currently this side of the ditch is all rice fields. Which brings me back to the point that if I want to use the road I first have to build it with an accompanying bridge.

[bushwacker]

Thank you ootai for your detailed response. This is exactly what I was looking for. Crazy that the land fill would cost more than the actual land!

From your explanation is seems costs would very quickly mount up and dwarf the original land purchase. Not sure what my legal liability would be on the bridge and road if in the future other people decided to build house and there was a problem with my original construction.

The good news is I am not desperate to buy this land or in fact any land but am looking into it as the wife seems desperate to own something. I do have a problem paying for the construction and maintenance roads and bridges and even poles that sit on government land, so probably it is wise to shake my head and walk away from this deal.

Thanks for taking the time. cheers

[sunsetter]

right then, buy up some of the rice field to use for your road, bypassing plot 1.

[hillbilly]

If there is no road access, why should the owner of plot 1 allow one

I think they have to allow access. At least that's what others on here have said in the past.

In my experience that is incorrect. K. Dee (MtD knows her) and I have backed down several times from buying a Plot#2 or #3. As with most land transactions in Thailand there is always the unkown...

[Necron99]

Crazy that the land fill would cost more than the actual land!

it's not really land though, more like rights to a hole.

[Norton]

so probably it is wise to shake my head and walk away from this deal.

Smart thinking. Keep looking. Find a plot more suitable and the the wife will be happier in the end. The plots you describe would be placed quickly in my too hard box.

[DrAndy]

If there is no road access, why should the owner of plot 1 allow one

I think they have to allow access. At least that's what others on here have said in the past.

Only by foot to carry stuff across, like rice, and that is just good neighbourly. We have an access road we built to other ricefields and have planted trees so it cannot be used by vehicles

only if the road has existed for years has any right of way been established (I don't know the relevant law)

[Necron99]

* It's not just goodwill. Under Thai law with any land that is landlocked without public assess by road or canal the owner has a the right to construct access at his cost and must pay the owner of the land used suitable compensation.
If you own land that blocks another owners access you can't deny them passage.

[hillbilly]

* It's not just goodwill. Under Thai law with any land that is landlocked without public assess by road or canal the owner has a the right to construct access at his cost and must pay the owner of the land used suitable compensation.
If you own land that blocks another owners access you can't deny them passage.

Dude have long have you lived here?

The Hi-Sos will take your land in a heart beat.

Just my experience of 15 years in Thailand.

The Thai laws do not mean shit...

[hillbilly]

I had a talk with the boss about this issue. The Thai law says that the owner of plot #1 must provide access to the owner of plot #2.

However, in reality this does not always happen. Hope that clears the situation up.

[DrAndy]

you can't deny them passage.

wot I sed

Only by foot to carry stuff across,

they have no other right for vehicles etc, they have to carry their rice on their back, so hardly easy

[bushwacker]

Well, just to close off this thread, we informed the owners of plot 2 & 3 that we would not be buying their land because we did not want to fund the building of the access road and bridge.

The only way we would consider purchasing the land is if the owner of plot 1 would also sell at a reasonable price. Note that the land is already built up from the highway to his plot but it is not the easement land.

So the deal is off, and owners 2 and 3 walked away with a smile and tear in their eyes.

Thanks all, for your comments. cheers

[andy bryant]

Good choice
Thais get very exited when land buying is going on but us farangs are a little more cautious,which here is a very good thing,you need to make sure all areas of the deal are checked by asking as many questions as possible.
My wife hates me doing it but I have had to tell her I told you to check this on nearly everything she has dealt with,it can be a big big headache
Best of luck

[thailazer]

Bushwacker... We bought land similar to the plot you are looking at. A 4 meter long bridge with three concrete planks strong enough for three axle cement trucks cost us 15,000 baht. Road 100 meters long was about another ten. Expensive part was bringing electricity in and the power company can give you a good quote on that. We had time on our side so we proceeded and are happy with what we have, but it pays to be prudent. We checked access over with the land office and the puiyai bann thoroughly before committing.

[thailazer]

By the way, we dug a pond and used the dirt to fill up the low areas of the land and build up a house pad. Even with that, it still took about a hundred truck loads of dirt to finish things off. ootai pointed out those costs and it is rather amazing how all the truck loads of dirt can be dumped and seemingly disappear when they are spread out.