Thread: Thai adobe/cob style of home

Apropos thermal mass and heat exchange, would building two courses of brick, strategically ventilated, with a cavity make much difference? Additionally, would not a steep pitched, double, ventilated Thai style roof but made from metal always make for a better solution?

Incidentally, I think this thread is really quite interesting. So nice to have something positive for a change, despite the odd discordant note here and there.

Originally Posted by thegent

would building two courses of brick, strategically ventilated, with a cavity make much difference?

that is what the Victorians built in the UK

however, it has since been found to be more efficient to plug the gap with insulation

would building two courses of brick, strategically ventilated, with a cavity make much difference?

I think plenty of people do that with regular building but not really an option with earth building. And I'm not sure how effective it would be if your house isn't sealed. If your windows and doors are open all day long, is there much point in having insulated walls? Maybe, I'm not sure.

Additionally, would not a steep pitched, double, ventilated Thai style roof but made from metal always make for a better solution?

Better than what? We went for a white flat metal roof. It reflects a lot of heat and, unlike those God-awful tiles everyone uses, it doesn't re-radiate the day's heat all night long. I guess the advantage of having it steep (which we don't) is that it sheds water quicker and also will never be flat on to the sun so it won't get as much heat. The other obvious thing to do is to make your house rectangular (rather than square) and line it up east-west, with the west wall as shaded as possible.

Originally Posted by DrAndy

however, it has since been found to be more efficient to plug the gap with insulation

Most of which they're trying to remove as it has acted as a damp-bridge.

yes, that was the wrong sort

and we say Thais are stupid!

Originally Posted by benlovesnuk

I have concrete tiles, for aesthetic values and they do not increase the temp inside the house to the degree that you suggest.

Originally Posted by benlovesnuk

As for clay tiles i personally wouldnt bother, they are double the price can break easily, and really radiate heat inside.

Generally speaking, concrete tiles have about 3 times the thermal mass of clay tiles, so that's more nonsense you've posted. While sharing similar specific heat capacity, concrete has much more thermal conductivity and a higher mass.

They're both rubbish roofing materials in the tropics.

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Originally Posted by benlovesnuk

I have concrete tiles, for aesthetic values and they do not increase the temp inside the house to the degree that you suggest.

Originally Posted by benlovesnuk

As for clay tiles i personally wouldnt bother, they are double the price can break easily, and really radiate heat inside.

Generally speaking, concrete tiles have about 3 times the thermal mass of clay tiles, so that's more nonsense you've posted. While sharing similar specific heat capacity, concrete has much more thermal conductivity and a higher mass.

They're both rubbish roofing materials in the tropics.

rubbish is a bit harsh, not ideal, but then what material is, please dont say metal. Its not, at least not from my personal taste, budget or opinion. MAybe reading what i had wrote would make you understand i was not writing a comparison as adeptly as you have bothered to list, but in fact real world tests of the differences i have found to be FACT>
They are double the price of clay tiles.
They do break more easily.
They do raditae heat (i had not said that concrete hadnt/was not comparable) but the difference in price and strength make up for this. Its called a compromise!
So the point being concrete are a good substitute if the make up of your roof design including ventilation and other functions can substitute this.

To say what you said is sad, pathetic and shows you dont read posts but cobble together contexts of your own to prove nothing that isnt obvious that you cant google. Maybe you should write for a media company?

Originally Posted by Dan

As I said, our house has a double roof. There's the metal structure and then there's a box which sits underneath (with a ceiling to be made from eucalyptus and mud) so that will reduce noise. I've been under it a few times during storms in the daytime and without the extra barrier, the noise doesn't bother me, though that will vary for people. The other major advantage of a metal roof is that it weighs a fraction of a tile roof (unless you're using those cement-fiber sheets perhaps) so you need to use a lot less material and for me that was an important consideration. Does it look cheap? Quite possibly but obviously I can't be sure about what judgements someone else will make. They're not rusty corrugated sheets but it's an adobe house so it's always going to look a certain way. And worrying about what other people think about my house is not a big concern of mine. If someone thinks it looks cheap, what the fuck do I care? After all, the whole house is cheap so it's hardly an unwarranted judgement. As for concrete tiles, maybe your house is fine but wildly overheated houses are shockingly common in Thailand and a lot of the time that seems to be because of excessive heat gain through the roof. Roofing material plays a big part in that. I agree with you, though, about traditional clay tiles. Not only do they break but after a few years all the ones I've seen have been covered in black mold, which, amongst other things, reduces to almost zero the amount of heat your roof will reflect. Not a good plan.

Hi Dan, mybe i can make the point through you that OTHERS^ will heed? You have done what best suits you, and i the same. We are not making general sweeping comments but personal attributes to what we have done in the building of our homes, houses, abodes. I am not trying to convince other people i am right but tell them what i have done, found out and believe to be true. I respect your methods, your time to vernacular building and im not trying to make the oppposite choice for arguments sake.
I would love a copper roof it would go well with TEAK, but its expensive and the insulation to stop noise would worry me about stopping heat escaping, im sure its a design detail, but not one i could bother to tackle.
I understand why people get metal roofs, that is the reason why i built a traditional wood house. the characteristics of both materials suit the tropics. However building is one of compromise, because of budget or knowledge or other.
I have used concrete tiles in this way, and i can say that they are holding up well and not causing heat transfer because of the design in the roof and ventilation. So we have managed to stabilize the condition with the compromise we had to make.

I hope everyone understands and people (MARmut) stop m aking ludicrous statements. I agree with what you said but that i was saying the opposed. just isnt true????

I really want to get a heads up on that strawbale house, so thanks Dan for your help and continued input.

Originally Posted by benlovesnuk

They are double the price of clay tiles. They do break more easily.

Maybe if you didn't write 'abstractly', you'd begin to make sense. What I have just quoted from you is the opposite of what you posted earlier.

I agree my writing is not the best, lot of info to deal with in a way that in written language doesnt get misunderstood or interpreted. My mistake is obvious, clay is double the price of concrete, but it was a just an error in writing. Everything else was as best as my english allows me to apply. It is however absurd, to make points to the contrary, where there are non made by me and that is your point?
But im not concerned for i will try my hardest to consolidate my ideas to be better understood. i hope however, this is getting more people interested in the ideas of what is possible, plausible and palatable???

Originally Posted by benlovesnuk

It is however absurd, to make points to the contrary, where there are non made by me and that is your point?

My point is that many of your posts are contradictory and therefore end up being nonsense. While the bulk are interesting, these posts make you look like you have no idea what you are talking about and therefore you lose credibility.

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Originally Posted by benlovesnuk

It is however absurd, to make points to the contrary, where there are non made by me and that is your point?

My point is that many of your posts are contradictory and therefore end up being nonsense. While the bulk are interesting, these posts make you look like you have no idea what you are talking about and therefore you lose credibility.

Im not sure that is true, there is nothing wrong in contradicting oneself if its from being told or learning the opposed is true to what i had thought and conceeded to that. This is very hard for others to do, but for me very easy.
But i dont really remember where this is the case in my posts, i have said at least on this thread:
I would build with thicker walls at a min of 25-30 upto 40-50 cm.
The reasons are for Aesthetic, multiple storey stability, and i believe it will reduce heat transmission in to the home.
Dan then made the point he believed there is no point as the cost does not make any difference, that 20-25cm is what he found effective for this climate.
I alluded to roof, ventilation making more of a difference and that walls were a preference to each persons taste, still not negating or contradicting any previous comments.
Then i made comments about the roof, to the reasons and thoughts behind concrete and clay tiles, as tiles have an Aesthetic i like. We couldnt afford wood shingle which would be my optimum choice, i dont like metal on concrete boards, copper is too expensive again, so we settled on concrete.

The only part that sounded contradictory is the mistake you mentioned which was a typing error(should i say beer typing error).

By the way i never have, will or attempt to gain credibility.

The fact that someone can be wrong on something doesnt mean they are nonsensical or not credible. It just means they were wrong, if someone can accept this when someones argument, side to story has enough weight then someone who can change their position is surely a more smarter enlightened individual.

Thank you for saying i have at least some posts that are worthy of your time, and please dont take it too seriously. I wasnt quoting the bible on building vernacular just an opinion that if someone finds of importance, interest they can take it up with me, or leave it to blow in the wind.

I like 2 sides or more to a story, not all can be right, but maybe each has some little thing of interest enough to count.

Thanks.

Does anybody know if they have seen strawbales being made in Thailand?

Thanks i had a look, it was interesting to see and read what and where they are.
I couldnt see any bale prices just machines for sale, do you know what the straw was from? Rice, Cereal grain?
Im most definitely working my self up to do a google sketchup now.

Your effort is astounding. You deserve rich awards. I will give this a go.

Yes, not sure about termites. I don't think they're really keen on rice straw (they didn't touch the straw I've had stacked up in the garden) but I'm not sure I'd want to bet my house on it.

Yes i think your right. I think if you lime plaster the walls, use a good foundation of concrete, stone and lime this should be reasonable. But most of all keep the straw bales to something like garage, home cinema, play room extension etc.

STRAWBALE BUILDING GUIDELINES FOR WET AND HUMID CLIMATES (as in New Zealand) :: cavity wall & other issues
Here is someone,s ideas on strawbale in humid wet climates, although im not sure that it matches the more temperate mildness of weather thailand recieves. Basically good hat and boots, which is the same for earthen homes. There was something about a plaster mix to keep out humidity, but i wasnt sure what was meant by this. Everything else is self supporting logical steps for building. Well in 20 years if thailand is feeling the cold, ill be more prepared.

It is worth emphasizing both adobe and cob are not suitable for Thailand's tropical climate. It doesn't mean you can't use them, it's just that you'll have to live with the disadvantages of their thermal mass. I have lived in a high thermal mass house in Thailand and it was an oven as the outdoor temperature lowered to a comfortable level. Just think to yourself, how many nights out of the year would you want to reach over to a thermostat and turn on a heater? This is a great system for the southwest US with hot days and cold nights, but terrible for the tropics. I live in one of the coldest climates found in Thailand and there is no way I would want that so I ruled out those wall systems and opted for better, natural alternatives.

Please be aware termites eat rice straw. If you are using it then you need a termite barrier.

Since I live in the mountains, there are no straw baling machines here so locals just burn straw. I decided to build a hand baler and can get straw from fields for free and make bales with no cost other than the exercise involved.

more please dont be shy!
i dont think cob is unsuitable it needs a good roof with wide eaves and ventilation, and then i have found it to be very comfortable, even without machine cooling. I think straw bale has some attractive points, termites puts me off a bit. Do you know if Lime mortar stops them? will you be using hydraulic lime plaster?
Where are you based if you dont mind me asking?

cheers

I would have built a 1 foot or higer plinth foundation with metal barrier capping it, but metal and straw i worry about because of condensation and wetting the straw. Id love to know what type of termite protection your doing?