Thread: Buying a village house to move to our land

Originally Posted by DrAndy

Originally Posted by benlovesnuk

I could be wrong, but i dont think i am. because the greater part of heat radiance into a home is conduction

blimey Ben, you really don't know how to phrase what you are thinking very clearly

I presume you mean that a lot of the heat coming into a home comes through the mass of the roof and walls?

If you then insulate those masses, one way or another, then that heat will not come through

the roof can be isolated, either with the thin foil rolled stuff (which also has a layer of fibreglass inside), or with the thicker fibreglass rolls, which can also be bagged in foil

the thinner stuff is ideal for laying under the tiles, the thicker for the spaces between the joists, or just laying on a flat ceiling

the walls can be isolated, or rather not take up the heat, by using QCON blocks, or shading

Originally Posted by DrAndy

Originally Posted by benlovesnuk

i have no idea what youu mean about sound insulation, boards and glass youve lost me.

I did think you had no idea about sound insulation from your posts

i havent posted anything about sound insulation, maybe thats why you think you do. i would disagree again. your statement would ring false with anyone who seriously understood the affects of sounds transmissions through objects, and how to reduce them effectively. But this is not this thread so we might as well stop with the dignitaries. Its a shame you will point out others peoples sarcasm's and undoings on topics, but feel helpless but to do the same.

It was a sincere question, to understanding something. you show me the proof of what you have said for a tropical climate with wood house and i will accept it. i doubt you will be able to, not because its not true, but simply because its not understood that well.

I dont know why it fires up the folks here to be given an opposite point of view, i wasnt selling him something, i wasnt criticizing him, like those who have done with pure delight to me. you show me where in a study, i will believe you, and can accept that im wrong.

everyone is really uptight arent they, must be an age thing.

Originally Posted by benlovesnuk

Im not saying i know, im spewing things out, that im trying to find out actual answers to. you seem highly knowledgeable and have a very good set of building practices. Your house looks great. well thought out.
Is there a radiant barrier on the foil?
My only reason for asking was that radiant barriers in wood houses seem to make more sense in my opinion, and i dont know anything about the foil you have used.
If you would be so kind, as i might use this stuff next time as i see it in global.

Ha! Definitely no expert. I do have experience from two previous building projects in Thailand, where I learned a lot of things NOT to do again.

I just assumed the foil was a "radiant barrier", reflecting the energy back to its' source. Am I confused?

no. you're not confused, and i get what you have done now. But i just didnt get the foil against the normal film like stuff. There was never a case of it not working, and it seems for the cost that it works well. i was just trying to discover the reason behind it, that others seem to have a certain idea about, which is based on cold warm climates not tropical ones. Both are right, but maybe one can work just as well and give higher performance or efficiency levels.
Moving on, im looking forward to the walls. Thanks for the help with the oil and finishing.

Received a groggy phone call from my contractor this morning to tell me he wasn't coming in - yet again. This was after him telling me just yesterday that he wouldn't be taking any more breaks. Sigh..., I've about had it with him. Think I am going to look for another team. So, I spent the day at the table saw ripping wood into strips to trim out the ceiling. I'm covered in sawdust and feeling quite grumpy.

Originally Posted by benlovesnuk

others seem to have a certain idea about, which is based on cold warm climates not tropical ones.

In cold climates insulation is used to keep heat in the home (and make it more efficient to mechanically heat), in hot climates it's used to keep heat out of the homes (and make it more efficient to mechanically cool).

Is that simple enough for you to understand?

Originally Posted by DrAndy

I did think you had no idea about sound insulation from your posts

Nor much else.

Now I feel better.

Good choice, and well deserved.
I'm enjoying your build, good luck with it.

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Originally Posted by benlovesnuk

others seem to have a certain idea about, which is based on cold warm climates not tropical ones.

In cold climates insulation is used to keep heat in the home (and make it more efficient to mechanically heat), in hot climates it's used to keep heat out of the homes (and make it more efficient to mechanically cool).

Is that simple enough for you to understand?

Originally Posted by DrAndy

I did think you had no idea about sound insulation from your posts

Nor much else.

oh marmite you are a simple bean arent you. That is great. Read the thread and then come back. its great that you feel you have an answer, shame its not to what we are talking about(mechanical cooling -really). At least you understand how its all done. haha

you're the type of person who feels they know everything, but you cant even read the question or the context, you're lost old chap.

Remember that in the North, this can be typical behaviour. They wont come to work in rain, even if the work is inside. They will take every funeral of a friends day off which is numerous for me because they are all old men. My labourer's dont even drink, i trust them now ive been working with them for almost 2 years. But they will take every opportunity sometimes to not come to work. Not like Issan builders.

In our house I used the 3" fiberglass roles with the silver stuff on the outside, I never really gave much thought to what role each material played other than "stops it getting hot", but this thread has thrown me back to high school science and made me remember the different types of heat transfer, i.e. convection, conduction and radiation.

So now I'm guessing that the silver foil is there to prevent the heat that's radiating from the tiles/sun, whilst the fiberglass is a barrier to prevent the air inside being heated by the air outside (convection). So now I'm guessing that a house that is going to be sealed and air-conditioned is would be a good idea to use the foil and fiberglass as we don't want our cool air inside being cooled by the warm air outside, but in a house where you are planning to cool it through ventilation it's a waste of time as you're already letting the hot air in through the vents and windows.

Does that sound correct?

Originally Posted by ChrisInCambo

Does that sound correct?

Yes, except for this bit "we don't want our cool air inside being cooled by the warm air outside"

Originally Posted by Thetyim

Yes, except for this bit "we don't want our cool air inside being cooled by the warm air outside"

Bugger, back to the drawing board ;-)

The statement was not, that one does not work and one does. But that with due consideration, nothing is gained in this climate with natural ventilation from insulation in the ceiling. However with aircon this makes more sense, but is in my mind limited to this or to some kind of sound insulation from the roof. The reason was posed after i couldn't understand why foil with a thickness of 3" was necessary. Wimpy said it was cheap, which is good, and seems to give him an r value of 12 i believe.
Dr.A and Wimpy both, have cathedral ceilings in their wood houses, of which wimpy's is going to be using natural ventilation and electric fan. Now in this application, it will work, very well and that wasnt the point of my questioning.
It was to understand if someone could give me a real reason, other than "accept it because i say so," to which no one has so far. my point is not to say the opposite for arguments sake, but have a fundamentally objective point about what is true.
Regardless of whether i am right or wrong, or as marmite so kindly refers to my posts as "a deluge of bullshit", i am happy to be proved wrong, as i do not hold onto my opinions like some as i do the truth.
So far all i have said is;
radiant barrier in a wood house, with ceiling and therefor attic will benefit further by just using a radiant barrier, and has no need for batt insulation, as significant gains will not be improved. You can put it in, with no improved impact to the cooling effect of the house, it will just add cost but not efficiency. I wont go as far to say therefore it could have a negative affect because there doesnt seem to be a practical situation where that is true, from peoples accounts here.
I hope this makes sense.

A couple shots from today.




The bamboo ply is growing on me. I had my doubts at first, being someone who likes his clean white surfaces. Once it is trimmed and finished, I think I might like it. Definitely a quick and affordable way to finish a ceiling.

Originally Posted by wimpy

A couple shots from today.




The bamboo ply is growing on me. I had my doubts at first, being someone who likes his clean white surfaces. Once it is trimmed and finished, I think I might like it. Definitely a quick and affordable way to finish a ceiling.

the floor is going to be amazing.
jury out on the bamboo.

If you dont put wood stringers on it and find something to seal the seams that is less in your face, i think the bamboo is good. As soon as you put wood on it, it will ruin the look in my opinion. My wife thinks wood would look fine, she laughed at my metal idea.

Originally Posted by DrAndy

yes, but the hot roof will make the house much warmer; even with your windows and doors open, if there is little or no wind, the heat will quickly build up

But isn't that heat radiated heat which is primarily stopped by the foil rather than the fiberglass?

For example I have a veranda in my garden which is completely open air, on really hot days I can feel the heat radiating from the hot tiles above. In this scenario the I think the foil would be effective, but fiberglass would do next to nothing.

What I'm trying to establish is whether the foil & fiberglass insulation is always best, or whether their are some applications just foil alone will do just as well. Mainly because I'm planning a wood house (other thread) with cathedral style ceilings and don't want to waste money on something if it's of limited benefit.

p.s I'm going to go against the flow and say that I like the bamboo, it gives a really nice rustic/tropical feel.

Originally Posted by OhOh

I will not enter the "insulation" question but am interested in the "bamboo ply". Is this layers of wood glued together like ordinary plywood that has a bamboo decorative layer. Or is it just a single "mat" of plywood with no wood layers?

The 3 1/2mm variety appears to be two layers of bamboo mat glued and pressed together. I don't know what is inside the 5mm variety.

Front


Back

Trimmed.

Originally Posted by ChrisInCambo

Originally Posted by DrAndy

yes, but the hot roof will make the house much warmer; even with your windows and doors open, if there is little or no wind, the heat will quickly build up

But isn't that heat radiated heat which is primarily stopped by the foil rather than the fiberglass?

For example I have a veranda in my garden which is completely open air, on really hot days I can feel the heat radiating from the hot tiles above. In this scenario the I think the foil would be effective, but fiberglass would do next to nothing.

What I'm trying to establish is whether the foil & fiberglass insulation is always best, or whether their are some applications just foil alone will do just as well. Mainly because I'm planning a wood house (other thread) with cathedral style ceilings and don't want to waste money on something if it's of limited benefit.

p.s I'm going to go against the flow and say that I like the bamboo, it gives a really nice rustic/tropical feel.

Thats my understanding. Broadly, if yu want to keep heat or cold IN use glass or foam, if you want to keep heat out and allow quick natural cooling just use foil.

I don't dislike the bamboo, just need to see it in context with the interior walls I think.

It looks nice, its natural (bonus) i think if you can get a stain or oil finish to make it still light inside, but a little darker to match it might not stand out as much - my opinion.
Bamboo is certainly wonderful stuff. Now you need the swinging bamboo hammock downstairs and that G &T in a pint glass.

Regarding the insulation... I just climbed up and put my hand against the bamboo under the eave where there is no insulation. Very toasty. Inside, where it is insulated, it is just slightly warm to the touch. Seems to be doing its' job.