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  1. #26
    Sprayed On Member
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    Bit Saturday afternoon Teakdoor fun!

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe
    How did it suddenly acquire an invoice
    I guess he paid the tax and fines to customs & excise. Not that difficult and something I have done with my old bike.

  3. #28
    Excitable Boy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe
    How did it suddenly acquire an invoice
    I guess he paid the tax and fines to customs & excise. Not that difficult and something I have done with my old bike.
    Did your old bike have zero paperwork of any kind associated with it before paying those taxes and fines?

  4. #29
    Thailand Expat Fondles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe
    How did it suddenly acquire an invoice
    I guess he paid the tax and fines to customs & excise. Not that difficult and something I have done with my old bike.
    Did your old bike have zero paperwork of any kind associated with it before paying those taxes and fines?

    The bike did have import paperwork at one stage so maybe he was able to have these re-issued.

    No reply to my last email though.

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  5. #30
    Excitable Boy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fondles View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe
    How did it suddenly acquire an invoice
    I guess he paid the tax and fines to customs & excise. Not that difficult and something I have done with my old bike.
    Did your old bike have zero paperwork of any kind associated with it before paying those taxes and fines?

    The bike did have import paperwork at one stage so maybe he was able to have these re-issued.

    No reply to my last email though.
    How do you know, and why wouldn't you have done that if possible? It would certainly have added value before you sold it.

    It seems strange that this guy would have managed to do in a couple of weeks what at least three previous owners couldn't do in years- in any case he's told some lies already, and the fact he didn't respond to your email speaks volumes.
    Last edited by FailSafe; 08-09-2013 at 11:28 AM.
    There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
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  6. #31
    Thailand Expat Fondles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fondles View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe
    How did it suddenly acquire an invoice
    I guess he paid the tax and fines to customs & excise. Not that difficult and something I have done with my old bike.
    Did your old bike have zero paperwork of any kind associated with it before paying those taxes and fines?

    The bike did have import paperwork at one stage so maybe he was able to have these re-issued.

    No reply to my last email though.
    How do you know, and why wouldn't you have done that if possible? It would certainly have added value before you sold it.

    It seems strange that this guy would have managed to do in a couple of weeks what at least three previous owners couldn't do in years- in any case he's told some lies already, and the fact he didn't respond to your email speaks volumes.
    The original paperwork exists with the the previous owners ex missus (remember it was gifted to Rigger to cover the money he spent on repairing it as the owner had to leave Thailand in a hurry), her location is/was unknown.

    It was suggested to me to try and have the import documents re-issued (can be done via the engine and frame numbers apparently) however as I was going to strip the bike for its front end to put on my SR I did not bother and as it turned out it was too good to do that anyways hence I sold it on to Timber.

    But yes the lack of reply to my email tells me there is no paperwork.

  7. #32
    Excitable Boy
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    I get it.

    Even so, there's no way to have the documents re-issued if they're currently in someone else's name unless you have their permission (otherwise you could easily get paperwork for a stolen bike to make it appear legitimate)- if Rigger couldn't get hold of them with an actual link to the original owner, how could this guy possibly do it?

  8. #33
    Thailand Expat Fondles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe View Post
    I get it.

    Even so, there's no way to have the documents re-issued if they're currently in someone else's name unless you have their permission (otherwise you could easily get paperwork for a stolen bike to make it appear legitimate)- if Rigger couldn't get hold of them with an actual link to the original owner, how could this guy possibly do it?
    I believe Rigger tried to get hold of the ex wife but was unable to do so as she moved house and nobody knew her new location, including the Riggers mate (the ex husband).

    Anywho as I said it was suggested to me to have them re-issued by someone I know who can sort that kinda shit...... could it be done I'll never know as I did not bother.

  9. #34
    Excitable Boy
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    ^

    It sounds like something was 'sorted' for this bike already (the same way green books can be 'sorted')- obviously he'll have some sort of paperwork to show a potential (and possibly gullible) buyer (probably a photocopied/chopped document).

    I just hate this kind of crap- I didn't think it was a good buy for you from the beginning due to the lack of documentation (it could have been reported stolen and you could have had problems), but at least everybody was upfront about the status (as you were when you sold it)- this guy is playing games.
    Last edited by FailSafe; 08-09-2013 at 12:12 PM.

  10. #35
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    This is a familiar story someone I knew, brought quite a few bikes over a period of years, he had a successful business over a period of around 5 years.

    Then one day the "police called in, we have information that these bikes have papers that are fake" my friend tuned to consult with his is trusted employes and a Policemen "on the pay roll" ( kept around to advise of these subjects).
    No one was to be found, Phones were mysteriously turned off, the pet policeman disappeared.

    Paperwork vanished, my friends wife was in tears, the police were going to bang her up for life, forging paperwork was a hanging offense don't ya know.

    MY friend worked out later, their were no police, just as bike gang who got their pals and police together to put together elaborate, with the assistance of real but bent cops.

    The bike gang was named after a lethal but for (issarn people edible) insect.
    There can’t be good living where there is not good drinking

  11. #36
    Thailand Expat Fondles's Avatar
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    Got a reply to my email, he is sending me a copy of the paperwork tonight when he gets home.

  12. #37
    Excitable Boy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fondles View Post
    Got a reply to my email, he is sending me a copy of the paperwork tonight when he gets home.
    Excellent- looking forward to hearing your report.

    I hope he did somehow get proper paperwork and the sale is on the level- it would certainly make me look at the used market in a better light.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe
    How did it suddenly acquire an invoice
    I guess he paid the tax and fines to customs & excise. Not that difficult and something I have done with my old bike.
    Did your old bike have zero paperwork of any kind associated with it before paying those taxes and fines?
    No paperwork whatsoever

  14. #39
    Excitable Boy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog
    No paperwork whatsoever
    Did you at least have the name of whomever was on the original paperwork (or a bill of sale, or anything to show provenance), or did you have nothing but the frame number or VIN? If that's the case, Thailand's system is even more fucked up than I thought. The bike in question doesn't have any links to the previous owner- I could certainly see being able to get copies of the paperwork with some knowledge of its provenance- were you able to acquire the invoice without this information?
    Last edited by FailSafe; 08-09-2013 at 02:48 PM.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog
    No paperwork whatsoever
    Did you at least have the name of whomever was on the original paperwork (or a bill of sale, or anything to show provenance), or did you have nothing but the frame number or VIN? If that's the case, Thailand's system is even more fucked up than I thought. The bike in question doesn't have any links to the previous owner- I could certainly see being able to get copies of the paperwork with some knowledge of its provenance- were you able to acquire the invoice without this information?
    Nope, nothing.

    All you do is go to the local customs office, they look your bike up in their book and pay the tax (usually abour 15k) and the fines (about 22k).

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog
    No paperwork whatsoever
    Did you at least have the name of whomever was on the original paperwork (or a bill of sale, or anything to show provenance), or did you have nothing but the frame number or VIN? If that's the case, Thailand's system is even more fucked up than I thought. The bike in question doesn't have any links to the previous owner- I could certainly see being able to get copies of the paperwork with some knowledge of its provenance- were you able to acquire the invoice without this information?
    Nope, nothing.

    All you do is go to the local customs office, they look your bike up in their book and pay the tax (usually abour 15k) and the fines (about 22k).
    So the person you bought it from had nothing to prove ownership?

    To me it just begs the question of some oil rig worker leaving his HD for six weeks and it gets stolen- what keeps the thief from just getting the invoice paperwork and making himself appear to be a legitimate seller? I've never done a transfer of ownership with just an invoice so I'd like to know how it's done.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog
    No paperwork whatsoever
    Did you at least have the name of whomever was on the original paperwork (or a bill of sale, or anything to show provenance), or did you have nothing but the frame number or VIN? If that's the case, Thailand's system is even more fucked up than I thought. The bike in question doesn't have any links to the previous owner- I could certainly see being able to get copies of the paperwork with some knowledge of its provenance- were you able to acquire the invoice without this information?
    Nope, nothing.

    All you do is go to the local customs office, they look your bike up in their book and pay the tax (usually abour 15k) and the fines (about 22k).
    So the person you bought it from had nothing to prove ownership?

    To me it just begs the question of some oil rig worker leaving his HD for six weeks and it gets stolen- what keeps the thief from just getting the invoice paperwork and making himself appear to be a legitimate seller? I've never done a transfer of ownership with just an invoice so I'd like to know how it's done.
    Would you like me to say 'nothing' in an alternative language?

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog
    No paperwork whatsoever
    Did you at least have the name of whomever was on the original paperwork (or a bill of sale, or anything to show provenance), or did you have nothing but the frame number or VIN? If that's the case, Thailand's system is even more fucked up than I thought. The bike in question doesn't have any links to the previous owner- I could certainly see being able to get copies of the paperwork with some knowledge of its provenance- were you able to acquire the invoice without this information?
    Nope, nothing.

    All you do is go to the local customs office, they look your bike up in their book and pay the tax (usually abour 15k) and the fines (about 22k).
    So the person you bought it from had nothing to prove ownership?

    To me it just begs the question of some oil rig worker leaving his HD for six weeks and it gets stolen- what keeps the thief from just getting the invoice paperwork and making himself appear to be a legitimate seller? I've never done a transfer of ownership with just an invoice so I'd like to know how it's done.
    Would you like me to say 'nothing' in an alternative language?
    I'm not being obtuse or trying to belabor the point, but I just can't understand how you can get that paperwork without proof of ownership (and why someone would buy a bike that might be stolen for all they know if there's absolutely no paperwork associated with the sale)- it seems too easy that anyone can rock on up to the proper office and acquire the documents for it.
    Last edited by FailSafe; 08-09-2013 at 04:58 PM.

  19. #44
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    1. I was given the bike.

    2. There was no paperwork with it as when I got it there was never a problem with having no paperwork.

    3. The customs wankers were pro-actively looking for big bikes with no paperwork. They scared the Midget into signing it into her name before threatening her with prison if we didn't pay the tax and fines because I was quite happy for them to take the bike away. But in typical Thai style they lied and threatened to get some cash.

    4. The bike is legally in Thailand. I can tax/insure it. The only thing I haven't got is a green book and a number plate (small fine if a pig in brown is having a particularly bad day).

    5. All of the above is how it is. Alternatively one can shove their head up their arse and read the bullshit posted on ThaiVisa.

  20. #45
    Excitable Boy
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    OK- if I understand correctly, it never had any paperwork, and you were the first one to legally register it or at least put your name (or your wife's name) on it- that I can see happening.

    I thought you were saying it had been registered to/by someone else, and you were somehow able to obtain documentation on it giving you legal ownership without that person's permission (or knowledge). The bike in the OP is legally registered to someone whose whereabouts are unknown, which would make it impossible (I'm assuming) for someone else to (legally) obtain an invoice for it.
    Last edited by FailSafe; 08-09-2013 at 06:30 PM.

  21. #46
    Thailand Expat Fondles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe View Post
    I thought you were saying it had been registered to/by someone else, and you were somehow able to obtain documentation on it giving you legal ownership without that person's permission (or knowledge). The bike in the OP is legally registered to someone whose whereabouts are unknown, which would make it impossible (I'm assuming) for someone else to (legally) obtain an invoice for it.
    To my knowledge other than being imported it has never legally been registered. This is all assuming the bike was actually imported in one piece, if it came in parts then there would be no record of it coming into the country at all so I assume to get the paperwork would be about the same as what marmite did, pay the import taxes and what ever fine there is.

  22. #47
    Excitable Boy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fondles View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe View Post
    I thought you were saying it had been registered to/by someone else, and you were somehow able to obtain documentation on it giving you legal ownership without that person's permission (or knowledge). The bike in the OP is legally registered to someone whose whereabouts are unknown, which would make it impossible (I'm assuming) for someone else to (legally) obtain an invoice for it.
    To my knowledge other than being imported it has never legally been registered. This is all assuming the bike was actually imported in one piece, if it came in parts then there would be no record of it coming into the country at all so I assume to get the paperwork would be about the same as what marmite did, pay the import taxes and what ever fine there is.
    OK, I get it. I'm under the assumption that it's already been legally registered- I thought you couldn't get a bike out of customs without paying the taxes on it (you mentioned earlier it had paperwork at one point so I didn't think it came in as parts).

    I'm very curious as to how all this works as I'm planning on possibly bringing in a car next year (which I know can be a major hassle).

  23. #48
    Thailand Expat Fondles's Avatar
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    hope you got deep pockets to attempt a car import.

  24. #49
    Excitable Boy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fondles View Post
    hope you got deep pockets to attempt a car import.
    I have a family connection which will help a lot, but I know it won't be cheap- it's something I've been thinking about for a couple years, and if some things fall into place I'm probably going to do it (or at least make the attempt).
    Last edited by FailSafe; 08-09-2013 at 07:26 PM.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by FailSafe View Post
    OK- if I understand correctly, it never had any paperwork, and you were the first one to legally register it or at least put your name (or your wife's name) on it- that I can see happening.
    That's what I initially thought, but I spoke to a guy a few months ago who was a previous owner of the bike and he said that he was pretty sure it was plated when he had it.

    The customs wankers did not check nor care about the provenance of the bike. All they wanted to do was intimidate my wife and get their money.

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