Cambodia thoughts

[Mathos]

A monument has been constructed in memory of these attorcities.








The same contains more skulls.






It would be impossible to say that anything the Cambodians have done in general to improve the appearance of these fields has been beneficial.

That would be an impossibility, once you have seen the real signs of the occurences for yourself, nothing can make the place anything different than what it is.







When will mankind ever learn?






There is a sign up in one of the buildings stating that all the clothing remnants have been disinfected!





Personally, I can appreciate that the world must not forget attrocities of this nature, and there have been some this last sixty years alone, which is pure evil on a massive scale.

I rather think the body parts, skulls and bones that is, should be afforded decent burials or cremation though.




These were the shackles used to restrain the poor souls.

[Mathos]

The current population of Cambodia is some 14 Million people

Male life expectancy at present is 59.3 years

Female life expectancy at present is 63.4 years.

A bit of History on Cambodia.


The 13th and 14th centuries were not at all successful for Cambodia.

It is largely believed that the country was badly ravaged in wars with Thailand, Siam as it then was which was becoming more powerful during this period of history.

SIAM had been previously paying homage and respect to Angkor.


Others believe the induction of Theravada Buddhism, which was extremely contrary to the Cambodian social structure at that time.

The historical records are rather sketchy at best regarding Cambodia and it is considered the "Dark Ages" of Cambodian history.


Cambodia was continually ravaged by Vietnamese and Siam invasions, wars and general torment until the 19th century, when new dynasties in these countries fought over control of Cambodia.

The war, beginning in the 1830's virtually destroyed Cambodia. There are still strong disagreements with Thailand and Cambodia also Vietnam and Cambodia regarding land and border issues.

King Norodom signed a treaty enabling the French protect the country,thereby creating a more safe environment for the Cambodians by stopping the wars the country was involved in with both Vietnam and Siam.


The French really ruled Cambodia for almost a hundred years from that time (hence the French connection throughout the country, especially Phnom Penh officially speaking though they were just advisor's.

Advisor's with the final say on all important topics and matters,

The French built roadways and improved certain living standards in Phnom Penh for instance, they encouraged improvement in trade and transportation for instance.

However, they very sadly neglected the education for the Cambodians and the levels of the same are still extremely poor up to this day.

It is a part of their existence which has never really got off the ground.

Little wonder when you realise the way the country has been run and controlled in general.


Hopefully, I will transfer some photographs of the local countryside and areas surrounding Phnom Penh later this evening.


There are two interesting starters here for the time being.






I thought both of these represented a calmness and peace, the people and country most certainly need and deserve it.

[Marmite the Dog]

Originally Posted by Mathos

However, they very sadly neglected the education for the Cambodians and the levels of the same are still extremely poor up to this day.

Things are definitely improving though, and there are an increasing number of Cambodians who are getting educated. Not only that, they actually value the education for the knowledge it gives rather than a piece of paper, unlike most Thais.

[El Gibbon]

For a first hand account of this terrible genocide read First They Killed My Father. Written by a woman that was on the run for years until escaping to Thailand.

Could not put it down.

E. G.

[Mathos]

[quote=Marmite the Dog;613730Things are definitely improving though, and there are an increasing number of Cambodians who are getting educated. Not only that, they actually value the education for the knowledge it gives rather than a piece of paper, unlike most Thais.[/quote]


Totally agree with you MtD, it is a pleasure to see people in Cambodia with a desire to do well, propelling themselves forward, taking their own place on the big stage we are all entitled to share, there is no better method than education.





We noticed too that the majority of younger people in Phnom Penh and that included students as well as shop workers, hotel employees, service vehicle drivers, including the boat controllers had a strong desire to present themselves with a smart appearance. The guy on the right of this photograph has a very strong occidental appearance don't you think?




Even the streets and basic modes of transportation showed a pride returning to an earlier devastated country.




I wish them well.

[Mathos]

Originally Posted by El Gibbon

For a first hand account of this terrible genocide read First They Killed My Father. Written by a woman that was on the run for years until escaping to Thailand.

Could not put it down.

E. G.

Excellent account E.G. I would recommend two books myself for outstanding reading and information.

Pol Pot

Author Philip Short.

The History of a Nightmare

Pot was the architect of a nightmare. The personal vision he had of a Shangri-La, Utopia was enforced by a period of unbelievable terror. How he even thought of carrying out this madness, let alone trying to consider what he hoped to achieve by the same is beyond any form of normality.

The true number of Cambodians to have perished will probable never be known. At least one million, some claim more likely to be two million.

This was a beautiful land, a land which had suffered through no fault of it's own.

Quote from William Shawcross Daily Telegraph.
'An impressive study - first hand accounts of the destruction, the paranoia, the unspeakable cruelty and the day to day banality of the Khmer Rouge leaders.'


Quote:- Johnathen Mirsky Literary Review.
'A comprehensive and eloquent biography of a monster'


The second book is:-

Daughter of The Killing Fields.

Asrei's Story

Author Theary C Seng

Asrei was a toddler when the Khmer Rouge killed her father. In prison she fell asleep in her mother's arms and woke to find her gone forever.

The book tells how Asrei {Theary Seng} spends her early years passed from one set of relatives to another, amidst a backdrop of soldiers, landmines, inadequate refugee camps and unrelenting death.

Confronted by a sea of human suffering from the age of three, she very soon learned that; ' life is but a breath.'


It's a tonic to the soul to see improvements as are obvious today and the obvious peace and tranquility of a scene like this.

[Mathos]

Oudong Temple a reasonable drive on a motorcycle taxi with Joe was quite an experience.

The two youngsters who guided us around spoke amazingly good English and were keen to learn, they not only gave us a good tour of the area, they never stopped asking questions.



The views were far reaching, but the area of land around Phnom Penh in general is rather flat and not exactly panoramic from a high elevation such as this Temple afforded.






The Monks in general looked extremely yound as well around The Temples in the area.






He kept getting lost.

Not to worry though, we stopped off for water here and there and managed to pick up a bit of fresh fruit to satisfy the appetite.





Oh, yes we needed extra fuel as well.

I kept calling him 'Danny Boy' he reminded me of a crafty 'Mick'

He said he liked the name Danny and may well change his nick name.

[Mathos]

Some of the old Temple ruins are quite spectacular around the capital itself.








When you consider the craftsmanship involved in building and carving with such skill so many years ago, it automatically creates thought and good points for discussion.


I think the picture below go's a long way to emphasising points I raised earlier regarding the appearance, cleanliness and happiness seen in the people in general.





The lady below looked like she wasn't going to have anybody invading her bit of temple either.

I think she resided in there.

[Mathos]

I bet the construction in those days of old was quite a spectacle to behold as well.

There was a great deal of intelligence as well as craftsmanship involved in buildings of this nature, they have to share a platform with those of the Aztecs and Egyptians in my book. Especially Angkor Wat which probable surpasses all of them.







Flobo was enjoying every minute, the people, wanted to show so much and obviously they had an interest in selling her small trinkets and single flowers, candles etc.

[Mathos]

There are numerous pavement cafés in Phnom Penh, all were busy venues and we found it enjoyable to wile away many an hour or two here and there.

There was always somebody about to have a chat with and plenty to talk about too.






Obvious care and trouble had been taken in presentation, again this says a great deal.

[Mathos]

The actual river, The Tonle merges with The Mekong at Phnom Penh (I think I am correct in saying that) shows a great deal of life, people appear to live in house boat type dwellings, obviously they can make a living from the rivers and perhaps they need little or nothing else.

Once again, the areas were hives of activity and people appeared content with their lot.





Not a satellite dish in sight either Jizzy!




The guy/lady hanging over the side of the boat in the rear of the photograph looks to be busy with his/her washing chores.





We had a trip down river on this boat, it was managed by a really nice lady who fed and watered us as part of the trip fee.

[Northern Scum]

I've not seen this thread before & think it's likely the best thread I've ever seen.

Well done, Mathos.

I'm moved.

[EmperorTud]

The best books I have read on the Cambodian genocide are,

Brother Number One, by David Chandler. For an insight into Saloth Sar and the Khmer Rouge. Also useful to understand the different factors involved in his rise to power and the inexplicable paranoia with which he and his colleagues suffered from.

Amazon.com: Brother Number One: A Political Biography Of Pol Pot, Revised Edition: David P Chandler: Books

Surviving the Killing Fields: A Cambodian Odyssey by Haing S. Ngor and Roger Warner. Haing played Dith Pran in The Killing Fields for which he won an Oscar but his own experience under the Khmer Rouge is probably far worse.
This is the best book written by any of the survivors of the genocide IMO. I've pretty much read them all.

Amazon.com: Surviving the Killing Fields: Cambodian Odyssey: Haing S. Ngor,Roger Warner: Books

[Mathos]

Originally Posted by Shitman

I've not seen this thread before & think it's likely the best thread I've ever seen.

Well done, Mathos.

I'm moved.

I think that is the nicest compliment I have ever had.

Thanks very much Shitman, I'll try and keep it going in the same vein, I have some brilliant photographs and writing to put up on here over the coming days and weeks.

Thanks again mate.

[Mathos]

Originally Posted by EmperorTud

The best books I have read on the Cambodian genocide are,

Brother Number One, by David Chandler. For an insight into Saloth Sar and the Khmer Rouge. Also useful to understand the different factors involved in his rise to power and the inexplicable paranoia with which he and his colleagues suffered from.

Amazon.com: Brother Number One: A Political Biography Of Pol Pot, Revised Edition: David P Chandler: Books

Surviving the Killing Fields: A Cambodian Odyssey by Haing S. Ngor and Roger Warner. Haing played Dith Pran in The Killing Fields for which he won an Oscar but his own experience under the Khmer Rouge is probably far worse.
This is the best book written by any of the survivors of the genocide IMO. I've pretty much read them all.

Amazon.com: Surviving the Killing Fields: Cambodian Odyssey: Haing S. Ngor,Roger Warner: Books

I'll have a look at those EmperorTud. Thanks for the tip mate, it's nice of you too.

[jizzybloke]

Please do keep going Mathos!

[Mathos]

I 'll try and do some more on here tomorrow, I want to head towards Siem Reip and Tonle Sap Lake plus of course Angkor Wat.

They are both incredibly interesting places.


Flobo and myself are extremely lucky to be able to travel about as much as we have been able to do, since our kids grew up and went their merry ways in life.

They didn't go so far either which is great, because we see them most days and have the added bonus of five fantastic grandsons.

We enjoy our travels and every now and then they allow us to take one or as this last time two of the lads along with us.

Great fun it is too.

Anyhow, what I was going to mention was a young lad we came across on Tonle Sap Lake in Cambodia last year.

You know in the western world, if you need an ambulance for instance it's normally a rapid phone call and one is there within minutes. In the UK the 999 service is outstanding.

There is a natural human tendency to take such benefits for granted.

The young lad I want to tell you about lives on Tonle Sap Lake, he was swimming in the lake and there was an accident, his left arm was severed right off by the propeller blade on a long tail boat.

You can imagine the pain, the shock, the loss of blood, the terror..

As it was the people got him out fast and he was lucky enough and young enough to survive this terrible incident and live.

I don't suppose he ever received counseling or such like.

No.

He has to provide for himself and there is no benefit system on The Tonle Sap Lake.

He sells bananas or begs from an aluminium tub.

He propels that tub about with a little paddle and he can fair make it move, it's important that he gets to a prospective customer for instance before any other vendor does.

He doesn't feel one bit sorry for himself either.





I just thought he was one hell of a kid and wanted to mention him.

[chinthee]

This is indeed a fascinating thread Mathos. There are many elements of your political observations and conclusions that could be debated extensively elsewhere on the forum.

But as a contiguous travel thread with extensive political and historical background, it is unique and very well done. I too look forward to more.