Thread: Minimum wage to increase by April 2011

Originally Posted by koman

Originally Posted by socal

Originally Posted by buriramboy

How can any employer argue against paying 300 baht (£6) for a days work??? Say people are working a 6 day week, still only 1800 baht a week or 7200 baht a month, hardly a liveable wage even for low class Thais with a family.

It costs nothing to live in Thailand, they are not starving. I bet a Canadian on minimum is poorer then a Thai when you consider living costs. Average price of a house in Vancouver is $818,000, price of 12 beer is $25.

Yea it's pretty rough living in Canada....that's why they have a couple of million waiting in the immigration queue and shiploads of illegals arrived off Vancouver island. I'm sure all these people would much rather live in Thailand but they just can't get past Thailand's draconian immigration police.

PS You can buy a small house with an acre of land down in NB for under $5Ok
It is possible to survive without living in Vancover.....and you can brew your own beer for about 10% of the cost for the commercial stuff. The water is excellent...

Actually that trend is changing. There is many Chinese moving back to Asia and away from North America. The lineups are just because the government is such an insufficient joke, not just because so many people want to come here. Also, Canada is the most lenient for extradition and shit, that is why all the Tami Tigers planned to come here rather then Australia.

I think reality strikes allot of forign brides to places like North America and Europe too. They realize that the average person is not rich, 30 to 50% of your income is taxed away, everyone is up to their eyeballs in debt. People are slaves to banks for their cars, their education and their house. It is not what it used to be.

Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer

what it appeears to have done is quietly disenfranchise Canadian Citizens bringing them down to the level of permit holders. Sad, I'd say.

So you think it is of major importance to distinguish between people and people, that it is important to classify them.
You're really showing your true colours now young Tom.

Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer

^
I see that in Canada a subtle change (or not so subtle) happened around ten years back when the two main immigration queues at the airports changed from "Canadian Citizens and Residents of Canada" and "Non-Canadian Citizens" -- to "Residents of Canada" and "Non-Residents of Canada"

What I take this to mean is that being a Canadian Citizen gives you no better status than a foreigner living in your country under a residency permit.

Because I have business interests abroad, including Canada, I also see that the Tax forms have changed. Again, it seems that they make no distinction between Canadians and non-Canadians. I assume this immigration change was meant to reflect the changes in global taxation of 'residents' vs non-residents of Canada, but what it appeears to have done is quietly disenfranchise Canadian Citizens bringing them down to the level of permit holders. Sad, I'd say.

Once an immigrant has been granted "landed" status they acquire virtually all the benefits of citizenship. I have known people who lived in Canada for 30 years or more and they were still just "landed immigrants". About the only benefit to full citizenship is that you are always guaranteed re-entry when you leave.

If a landed immigrant left for a long time and then tried to re-enter they could be denied....at least in theory. In practice it probably would not happen unless there was something pretty extraordinary about the circumstances.

There was a story just a few days ago about the government revoking 1800 citizenships. These people apparently had never actually lived in Canada but had made arrangements with some "consultant" to fake their residency and eventually get the full citizenship. Useful if they ever need a place to run...or when they need expensive medical treatment etc. Talk about abusing the system....

^
Sad - says it all really.

And lom, nice try. The main point is that Citizenship becomes rather meaningless under the type of system outlined above, hence the nation state becomes more a port of conveniece with little or no obligations other than taxation. A Citizen is expected to defend his country, his way of life, and he thinks he has a stake in it. A permit holder there (landed immigrant?) has no such obligations yet receives all the same treatment and benefits as a Citizen - which begs the question "what's the point of being a Canadian citizen?"

Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer

which begs the question "what's the point of being a Canadian citizen?

Well you do get a nice ID card and a scroll...and you shake hands with a high court judge and a Mountie salutes you...... ...and you can now become Prime Minster if you want.

Wouldn't it be typical if the idiots threw a coup over the minimum wage?

Originally Posted by SteveCM

Originally Posted by longway

Somebody needs to let him know that thailand already has a minimum wage policy.

Seems he's already aware of that - seeing as he mentions increases to it twice in the first paragraph.....

Speed-reader are you?

Just that his arguments are about the effects on employment and inflation on having a minimum wage, nothing to do with increasing it by between 40-80% at one go.

maybe he forgot by the second part of the blog that no-one is arguing about abolishing the minimum wage, or he forgot it was there as his bile from his faux concern overwhelmed him by then.

Thai-ASEAN News Network

CP Backs Minimum Wage Increase

UPDATE : 25 July 2011

Giant conglomerate Charoen Pokphand or CP Group voices support for the Pheu Thai Party's policy to raise the daily minimum wage to 300 baht.

CP Vice President for Finance, Suparat Kawatkul, said he backs Pheu Thai's attempt to increase the daily minimum wage to 300 baht, saying that laborers are facing a dramatic increase of goods prices.

Consequently, he said increasing their wage is reasonable.


However, he conceded that the plan would affect the business sector and may cause a decline in foreign direct investment.

He said the next government should help the business sector with the rising wage cost such as by providing subsidies and cutting corporate tax.

Suparat reitrates that CP is ready to comply with the new government's policies, especially regarding the agricultural sector.

Bangkok Post : Academics support wage rise proposal

Academics support wage rise proposal

• Published: 26/07/2011 at 12:00 AM
• Newspaper section: News

Academics and labour leaders have thrown their weight behind the Pheu Thai Party's policy to raise the daily minimum wage to 300 baht, but recommend that measures be drawn up to cope with employer concerns.

Lae Dilokwitthayarat, a lecturer at Chulalongkorn University's faculty of economics and an expert in labour affairs, said wages for workers accounted for less than 10% of total production costs. Thailand has suppressed local wages to attract industrial investors and in turn worsened inequality in society, he said.

Pheu Thai's campaign pledge to raise the minimum wage to 300 baht a day nationwide had piqued the interest of workers, spurring them to vote for the party in the recent general election, Assoc Prof Lae said. As a result, the party must make sure it introduces a 300-baht flat rate, or face a crisis of confidence among its supporters.

He spoke during a labour network seminar at Chulalongkorn University's faculty of economics.

Direk Patamasiriwat, of the School of Development Economics at the National Institute of Development Administration, said the Pheu Thai-led government would win over workers if it honoured its campaign pledge.

But, the government will meet resistance from employers who may resort to mass layoffs, he warned.

The government should prepare measures to cope with anticipated layoffs by finding jobs to accommodate affected workers, Prof Direk said.

Local administrative bodies nationwide should be asked to hire people who are laid off due to the wage rises, he said.

Several studies have found that a wage rise of Pheu Thai's magnitude would have a minimal impact on businesses, but it would spark an overreaction from many companies, he said.

Pheu Thai's plan to cut taxes on businesses must be carefully studied, Prof Direk said. He said the party should not use taxpayer's money to subsidise businesses.

He suggested the government set up a committee to study the exact effect on production costs if the daily minimum wage were increased to 300 baht.

Narong Petprasert, a Chulalongkorn University economist, said the minimum wage in Thailand was relatively low, particularly when compared to worker efficiency, which results in huge profits for enterprises.

He cited research which found that 60% of the labour force earned less than 6,000 baht a month. This low income forces many people to work overtime to meet the increasing cost of living.

He called on relevant agencies to help cut non-production costs such as under-the-table fees and personal expenses of company executives that were normally added to production costs.

Labour leader Pawis Pasook said employers had exploited workers for more than 40 years by paying them low wages.

Somsak Thong-ngarm, of Ang Thong provincial wage committee, said workers had decided to vote for Pheu Thai mainly because of its minimum wage proposal.

Wilaiwan sae Tia, deputy chairwoman of the Thai Labour Solidarity Committee, said employers were living comfortably at the expense of workers and if workers dare ask for wage increases they are rejected.Meanwhile, the Northern Industrial Council has voiced concern over Pheu Thai's policy, saying the 300-baht daily minimum wage would hamstring the industrial sector, particularly small and mid-sized factories.

Yutthapong Jeeraprapapong, chairman of the council, said the next government should gradually increase the minimum wage instead of pushing for a quantum leap like Pheu Thai had promised.

Such a drastic increase would push labour costs up to 36% of total production expenses, from the current average of 20%, he said. This, in turn would increase product costs by at least 16%.

He proposed that the wage hike be based on studies by provincial tripartite wage panels and the Central Wage Committee.

Escap: Pheu Thai plans sound

• Published: 26/07/2011 at 12:00 AM
• Newspaper section: Business

Improved political stability, a proposed cut of business taxes and a hike in the daily minimum wage will give Thailand better odds in competing with regional economies to attract foreign direct investment, says the UN Economic and Social Commission for Asia and the Pacific (Escap).


Escap executives have played down arguments over the Pheu Thai Party's proposed rise of the daily minimum wage to 300 baht, saying instead that the policy should be part of the country's industrial transformation: sending a signal to international communities that Thailand is moving away from unskilled labour industries to more value-added activities.

"Raising the minimum wage will help in terms of income security for workers coming to Thailand," said UN under-secretary-general and Escap executive secretary Noeleen Heyzer.

"It is a good way looking forward for Thailand."

Ravi Ratnayake, Escap's trade and investment director, urged the new government to come up with measures to deal with the short-term negative impacts of the wage hike including ones to help small and medium-sized enterprises.

"You need to balance positive and negative impacts of higher minimum wages," said Mr Ratnayake, adding that the prices of some products may go up. "But in the long term, there are net positive impacts."

Meanwhile, foreign direct investment (FDI) is drawn to political stability, which has not abounded in Thailand in recent years but could improve after this month's election and when the new government is installed.

Certain proposals of the new government to reduce business taxes will create more FDI in Thailand, said Mr Ratnayake.

Although the agency's "Asia-Pacific Trade and Investment Report 2011" released yesterday found that FDI flows to the region have fully recovered from the 2009 global crisis, 75% of these go to just five "giants" - China, Hong Kong, India, the Russian Federation and Singapore.

In Southeast Asia, while FDI flows to Malaysia and Indonesia rose sharply last year, Singapore was clearly the leader in the sub-region, ranking as the No.1 FDI destination in the world. The island economy attracted 35% of FDI inflows during 2008-10, with Vietnam, Indonesia and Thailand taking 17%, 16% and 13%, the report said.

Escap also projects spectacular export growth in Asia-Pacific after returning to pre-crisis levels with an estimated 17.3% last year. Growth will stabilise at 9% in 2011.

India is expected to record the highest export growth with 11.3% this year, followed by Korea (11%), China (10.8%), Thailand (10%), Indonesia (9.9%) and Malaysia (7.9%).

"Opportunities for export expansion will depend largely on the growth of intra-regional demand and ability of developing countries of the region to restructure and diversify their exports," Dr Heyzer said, noting that Asia-Pacific exports face a clear and present risk of protectionism.

"The region is facing uncertainties in the post crisis era, such as climate change, inflation pressures driven by food and energy price increases, foreign exchange volatility, the effect of natural disasters and sluggish demand in developed economies," she said.

Although Thailand has been able to keep the effects of rising oil prices at bay due to state price controls, as the global price of oil continues to climb, Thailand, like the rest of the Asia-Pacific, will continue to face rising oil costs that can curtail economic growth, said the report.

So how little do the International investment community think that a Thai can live on?
And what percentage of their investment does this amount to? A serious question? Is this a serious concern or the rich just wanting to get richer?

the minimum wage might eventually increase unemployment, but that's actually a good thing for employers, it will give them greater "workers" accessibility and will slow down wage inflation eventually as the labor market is very tight these days with the low unemployment figure.

This of course is valid in high growth area like Bangkok, completely invalid in NE shithole where everyone is drunk on lao khao 24/7

Saying the lack of forethought before making this promise is spectacular is an understatement.

Originally Posted by longway

So he remembered again right before the end, after making irrelevant points throughout the blog, good for him. Yes, appropriate research is incredibly important, but completely lacking, in his blog and the party that proposed it.

Fine, hold to your view. I've already pointed out why I think it doesn't stand up - and nothing you've said here changes that.

Originally Posted by longway

And if you had any real interest in the topic you would be addressing that concern than nit picking one line posts by people you perceive to be your opponents.

No idea what this refers to. Neither do I see any "opponents" here any more than I see "allies". I see what I think is either wrong or right and respond accordingly as and when I I've a mind to.

Originally Posted by longway

I don't know why you want to bring up the crowd numbers at the democrat rally again, but if you want to revisit that topic please address it there. Both you and Calgary have some kind of fixation with it, and if you think I am lying for whatever reason I will happily defend myself in that thread. Bump the thread if you have a point to make.

You bring up again here the "lying" suggestion that I've already dealt with on that thread. What Calgary chooses to say is up to him - just as how/whether you choose to respond to him is up to you; I suggest you don't waste time and energy trying to "pair" or group posts from different people - it's self-evidently pointless. The totality of what one person says (and how they say it) is always relevant - if for no other reason than it often relates to credibility. That said, if this reference to your crowd-count gets under your skin so much, I'm happy to both withdraw it and apologise. In any case, I don't foresee reference to it coming up again - not from me anyway. I can't speak for others here - any more than they (or you) can speak for me.

^ No you brought it up. If you think its dealt with then don't bring it up.

That said, if this reference to your crowd-count gets under your skin so much, I'm happy to both withdraw it and apologise.

Not sure how I am supposed to take this, its a fairly back handed way to make an apology, and reeks of fakeness, but it suits your persona on this board to a T.

Increasing the minimum wage: Puea Thai

Increasing the minimum wage: Puea Thai’s first big test – Part 1

By Bangkok Pundit Jul 26, 2011 9:00AM UTC

One of Puea Thai’s campaign promises was to implement a nationwide daily minimum wage of 300 Baht a day. Currently, there is no nationwide minimum wage, it is set at different levels per province (i.e higher in Phuket and Bangkok and other larger urban provinces), but lower in more rural provinces. Currently, the minimum wage is between 159 to 221 Baht a day. This slightly out-dated BOI chart has minimum wage per province at beginning of 2010 which though does give you an indication of where provinces are.

Should the minimum wage rate be increased?

First, some background about the minimum wage in Thailand. Reuters Bureau Chief Jason Szep had an interesting analytical piece article a few months back:

For the past decade, Thailand’s minimum wage has trailed inflation, creating one of the widest gaps between rich and poor in Asia according to the World Bank, and fuelling working-class frustrations that erupted into violent street protests last year.

But Thai wages are creeping up, supported by an average 6.4 percent minimum-wage increase this year…

According to Thailand’s Labour Ministry, there were only two years in the past decade when the increase in minimum wage exceeded inflation: in 2001 when inflation was 1.6 percent and the increase was 2.2 percent and 2007 when inflation was 2.3 percent and the wage rose 3.1 percent.

The Nation has some more details over how the minimum wage has trailed inflation in the late 90s:

For example, inflation was 5.6 per cent in 1997 and there was no increase in the minimum daily wage; the rate was 8.1 per cent the next year, which saw a wage hike of 1.8 per cent. There were no minimum-wage increases in 1999 or 2000, which saw inflation of 0.3 and 1.6 per cent respectively.

Bloomberg has the result:

The country’s average daily minimum wage increased by 25 percent over the past decade to 206 baht ($6.73) from 165 baht, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

BP: Although, a pro-Thaksin party was in power for half that time so it is not as though may want to reflect as to why the low increase in wages then again. After having typed the above, BP found the below chart which shows you minimum wage versus inflation for 1997-2009:


Source: Bangkok Post

btw, when they say that 2.9 and 3% in 2005, doesn’t that mean around 5.9%- actually just under 6% so increase was more than inflation? Right?

However, this slowing down of the increase of the minimum wage has not always been the case. This TDRI PDF file shows the increase in the minimum wage from 1973 to 2003. Below is information summarized from TDRI:

In 1973, it was 12 baht a day. By 1978, it varied between 25-35 baht a day. By 1983, it varied between 56-66 baht a day. By 1988, it varied between 61-73 baht a day. By 1993, it varied between 102-125 baht a day. By 1998, it varied between 130-162 baht a day. By 2003, it varied between 133-169 baht a day.

BP: In the past 14 years, the minimum wage has stagnated and has not kept place with inflation like in the past.

btw, would be interested if anyone has been able to plot minimum wage increases on a chart with inflation increase….

Actually, the Democrats also agreed to raise the minimum wage. While the Democrats campaigned on raising the minimum wage by 25% over two years, this was actually a significant backdown from Abhisit’s proposal last year for a nationwide 250 Baht a day minimum wage, which was approved by Cabinet, but which was later abandoned. Basically, the idea of a significant increase the minimum wage has broad support – one of Puea Thai’s coalition partners campaigned on 350 Baht a day. This is best summed up by then Finance Minister Korn in a speech in Korea as reported by the Bangkok Post last year:

Corporate income tax revenues have doubled since the 1998 crisis, he said, while minimum wages have fallen when adjusted for inflation.

One course for the country may be in a new economic model based on tourism or auto clusters. This will help diversify the economy and narrow the income gap, he said.

“In the export sector, only the [company] owners or shareholders benefit from the earnings, while employees earn [minimum] wages,” Mr Korn said.

“Yes, low wages are one key factor why foreign companies invest in Thailand. But in the end, low wages also contribute to the income gap.“

Then, also in an interview with the Sydney Morning Herald last year:

So Thailand’s Finance Minister, Korn Chatikavanij, has come up with a very big idea, albeit a simple one – raise workers’ salaries. ”What’s the cost to the country to significantly increase this minimum wage?” he posits during our recent interview.
…
Those people most likely to oppose Korn’s suggestion are his own supporters. Korn is a senior figure in Thailand’s oldest political party, the Democrats, whose heartland is Bangkok’s conservative business elite. Many of their number are rich and yellow-inclined, regarding their privilege as a birthright endorsed by the semi-divine monarchy.
…
Now, he says: ”Maybe we’ve been conned all this time here by employers as regards our minimum wage, which we all know to be low but have been told is necessary.”
…
He has shown particular interest in the Foxconn crisis in southern China. Several workers at the Taiwanese-owned factory that produces for Apple, Hewlett-Packard and Microsoft committed suicide and the company is fending off claims of abusive work practices. Korn says he sees a lesson in the company’s reaction to the deaths.

”The most significant thing about the Foxconn matter was that overnight the owner was able to double salaries. That means he could afford to do it,” he says.

As for the cost to business of higher wages, Korn says: ”I would reduce their tax, that’s the quid pro quo, and then I pick it up through higher consumption. But I need to do more work on how this would impact on costs and competitiveness.”

Korn’s thinking betrays not just his own government’s immediate dilemma but a longer-term Asian leadership conundrum – how to confront unexpected political and economic challenges as working-class aspirations and education rise.

”I’m thinking, what’s the cost to the country to significantly increase this minimum wage, by order of the Ministry of Labour? If there’s a time to do it, it is now.‘

BP: The main difference now is how significant the increase should be and how quickly.

In a later post, BP will look at some of the pushback from business, the implications of minimum wage increase, Puea Thai statements post-election, and possible problems ahead.

btw, was Korn’s establishment membership cancelled after that interview?

Originally Posted by longway

Saying the lack of forethought before making this promise is spectacular is an understatement.

CP, Escap, and several academics seem to prominently disagree. How they bring it in though will be interesting- it makes sense to raise it in Bangkok & central provinces first really, but this may well be a bit controversial with PT's electoral base.

Not to worry. All you Thai workers who will get the 300 baht minimum wage forget it.
My son's school informed me today that due to the change of Government [remember they haven't taken office yet] the free education policy has ende and and they will need to charge me 3.000 Baht a year for m Prathom 5 student plus a charge for free uniforms. As he is in P5 he will not get the Laptop for every student as this now will only apply to P1 students, Therefore my expected wind fall of another 50 baht per day has gone already.

Originally Posted by noelbino

Not to worry. All you Thai workers who will get the 300 baht minimum wage forget it.
My son's school informed me today that due to the change of Government [remember they haven't taken office yet] the free education policy has ende and and they will need to charge me 3.000 Baht a year for m Prathom 5 student plus a charge for free uniforms. As he is in P5 he will not get the Laptop for every student as this now will only apply to P1 students, Therefore my expected wind fall of another 50 baht per day has gone already.

Free educational policy. There's no profit in this.

Originally Posted by sabang

Originally Posted by longway

Saying the lack of forethought before making this promise is spectacular is an understatement.

CP, Escap, and several academics seem to prominently disagree. How they bring it in though will be interesting- it makes sense to raise it in Bangkok & central provinces first really, but this may well be a bit controversial with PT's electoral base.

Controversial in that they promised a 300 baht minimum wage for the country, but since have watered this promise down to only Bangkok (and possibly Phuket). Yeah, I can see how you'd think that might be controversial. I prefer the word lie...or con...

A reminder...

https://teakdoor.com/thailand-and-asi...ml#post1776064 (Thai elections 2011-Thai PM sets stage for tough election)



And lets not forget the....

Pheu Thai Party offers tablets to Thai students

Pheu Thai Party offers tablets to Thai students

By THE NATION
Published on April 29, 2011

The Pheu Thai Party has highlighted one of its campaign policies, billed as "one student, one tablet computer", arguing that it plans to offer Thai youth a tangible tool to brace them for the world of high-speed Internet.

"The government is promoting its broadband policy in an intangible manner, but Pheu Thai will make available the actual tool to access ADSL or high-speed internet," Pheu Thai campaign strategist Pichai Naripthaphan said.Pichai said that his party, if elected to lead the next government, would expand Wi-Fi coverage to every school and that every primary school student would be given a tablet computer free of charge.

He said Internet access would be available without charge at education institutions, government offices and public places.

Pheu Thai expects to improve the country's competitiveness by promoting e-learning and making sure that every student can gain access to e-books, he said.

Tablet computers in China and India have a price range of Bt3,000-Bt6,000, and Thai schools could get a cheaper price by buying in bulk, he said.


Which has since become only something entirely different....just one year in schools...

SD - didn't you post this ALREADY? What the fuck are you doing?