View Poll Results: Will the government help the automakers out or let them go into bankruptcy?

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  • The government will help them.

    23 76.67%
  • The government will let them go into bankruptcy.

    6 20.00%
  • I have no opinion on this.

    1 3.33%
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  1. #1
    Thailand Expat
    Rattanaburi's Avatar
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    US Automakers Your opinion: Bailout or Bankruptcy?

    Just curious what you think should and will happen to the US Auto giants who are struggling. I guess GM and Ford?

    In your opinion, should the US government let them fail or bail them out?

    What do you think will actually happen?

  2. #2
    Hansum Man! panama hat's Avatar
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    Yup, they will get a bail-out.

    All this talk of unionisation and the like being the core problem is nonsense. The main reason for the car companies not doing well is that they simply cannot compete with the competition in price or quality.

    Germany, France and Japan have unionised workforces, their wages are high, the social contributions are high etc . . .

    These country's auto-makers have diversified, started up plants in consumer's countries, made quality their modus operandi, went with or started the trend for fuel efficiency, looked at consumer needs and wants . . .

    . . . while the US automakers kept making gas guzzlers, continued to make uncompetitive and low-quality cars.

    Export . . . how many US cars do you see in Thailand, Australia, Germany, France, Japan, South Africa, Denmark etc . . .

  3. #3
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    Expect the bail-out for sure. This is the usual insane move by the US govt to continue to subsidize rotten and undeveloped business practices. And will continue to do so even after they continue to tread water. Corporations as the auto biz in the States are an albatross on the economy already laddened with illusion. Unfortunately, most have bought the ideals that industries such as these, are vital to the phony balony economy. They're not that vital when they've been working in the red and under bankruptcy for decades.....
    Last edited by Rural Surin; 16-11-2008 at 11:58 AM.

  4. #4
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    Is your question "Will" or "Should"? The poll is asking whether or not the government will bail out the automakers, but your post asks should they bail them out. I can't if they will won't but I don't think they should. Free-market economy should be sink or swim for the big guys just like it is for the small ones. If the rich get socialism then so should the poor.
    Eat more Cheezy Poofs!

  5. #5
    watterinja
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    The US automakers are so far behind the curve that they do deserve to move into bankruptcy.

    Their forward vision is so archaic that is is senseless pouring more good money in after bad. Perhaps it would be in their best interests to be taken over by an outside automaker - eg. Toyota, Honda...

    I've been privileged to hear Toyota's engineering director discuss their strategy & forward vision - stunning stuff. Toyota didn't get to where it has by crying 'help me' when their business model suffered - they strategised, re-focused & moved ahead. The Japanese are strategic planners, whilst the US automakers have tended to rest on former glories.

    Let the Detroit three move into bankruptcy.

  6. #6
    Rhubarb, rhubarb, rhubarb
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    Germany, France and Japan have unionised workforces, their wages are high, the social contributions are high etc . . .

    These country's auto-makers have diversified, started up plants in consumer's countries, made quality their modus operandi, went with or started the trend for fuel efficiency, looked at consumer needs and wants . . .

    . . . while the US automakers kept making gas guzzlers, continued to make uncompetitive and low-quality cars.

    Export . . . how many US cars do you see in Thailand, Australia, Germany, France, Japan, South Africa, Denmark etc . . .
    The US car-makers foreign brands do reasonably well as they make cars for the market they're in. Ford do reasonably well in Europe, GM / Opel / Vauxhall / Holden also do well in the countries they're made.
    It's the home market that is completely buggered.

  7. #7
    I am in Jail
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    1 in 10 jobs in the US rely on it. What a ridiculous situation to be in, in a country that probably spends more on trying to put men on mars than on trying to develop efficent engines

  8. #8
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    I would have to agree with the above (crappiness of US-made cars, inevitability of a bailout). It's a shame but that seems to be the direction they're heading. They wasted the last 10 (+) years making huge, gas-guzzling SUV's, with everybody thumbing their noses at the coming shitstorm.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smeg View Post
    1 in 10 jobs in the US rely on it. What a ridiculous situation to be in, in a country that probably spends more on trying to put men on mars than on trying to develop efficent engines
    Or even more realistic, spends their weight towards military/war-related expenditures decade after decade instead on turning inward and concerning themselves with basic civil infrastructues.

  10. #10
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    The question should be modified this way:
    Will the USA government help involve or avoid Chapter 11 ?
    To my opinion, Chapter 11 is necessary for whatever restructuring process, as only by resorting to Chapter 11 the Unions will finally face reality and accept the 75% wage cuts that are necessary to put the USA automakers back on track.
    Any smaller wage cut would waste whatever help/loan received from the government.

  11. #11
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smeg
    1 in 10 jobs in the US rely on it.
    Another nonsense "statistic" used by supporters of the bailout. There may be this many jobs involved in the auto industry but implying they would all be out of work if the big three goes bust is bollocks.

    Chevrolet dealers will become Honda or Toyota dealers, parts suppliers will supply parts to other auto manufacturers who build in the US.


    If they have any intrinsic value, successful auto manufacturers will buy their "good" assets and the end of the world will be averted. Bailouts are a crutch for bad business. What next? If Microsoft has a bad year will they be bailed out? There is no end.

    Screw the big 3!! Let them eat cake. They deserve to reap what they have sowed.

    The poll asks "will" the government bail them out so I will have to vote yes even though I strongly disagree and believe it is politics based on buying votes. Something Thailand is much criticized for doing
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

  12. #12
    Mid
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    Bailouts are a crutch for bad business. What next? If Microsoft has a bad year will they be bailed out? There is no end.
    too big to fail ....................

    rapidly accending to with us or against us status .

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rattanaburi
    In your opinion, should the US government let them fail or bail them out?
    Should they? No
    Will they? Yes.

    I just can not see the politicians voting against a bailout.

    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat
    while the US automakers kept making gas guzzlers, continued to make uncompetitive and low-quality cars
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rural Surin
    Expect the bail-out for sure
    You bet.

    There has also been an arrogance amongst the US auto makers that obviously made it difficult to see the way the market was heading.


    I remember years ago one of the big three dealerships in the New York area used to advertise on TV " Buy our cars and we will throw in a Yugo (remember them?) free)

  14. #14
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troubled
    Buy our cars and we will throw in a Yugo
    A new slogan for Fiat when they buy out Ford. "We'll even throw in a Mustang if you buy today". Poetic justice!

  15. #15
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    It reminds me of the motorbike / car industries in the UK (deceased) a few years ago, SHIT PRODUCTS ,SHIT "MANAGEMENT" !!!! asking for and getting a bailout ,read extended life on taxpayers money ,now all gone because the problems were never addressed at the time, probably too late anyhow, Now Obama is showing his economic nievity in supporting GM/ Ford /Chrysler, its too late for them , a slow lingering expensive death awaits

  16. #16
    Thailand Expat Texpat's Avatar
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    Jap cars sold in the US aren't the tiny little shitcans that putt-putt around Tokyo.

    Americans drive a lot and prefer bigger cars. There are dozens of models of Toyotas and Mitsubishis in Tokyo that you'll never find in the US --they're too small and probably couldn't pass safety standards.

    The Camrys and Lexus and big-end models do very well in the States. Nissan sells a V-10 truck that sells nicely.

    If the US car companies can't compete, let 'em fold.

    Now Obama is showing his economic nievity[sic] in supporting GM/ Ford /Chrysler, its too late for them
    Watch your mouth Mister Racist. That's the Messiah you're blaspheming.

  17. #17
    bkkandrew
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smeg
    1 in 10 jobs in the US rely on it.
    Another nonsense "statistic" used by supporters of the bailout. There may be this many jobs involved in the auto industry but implying they would all be out of work if the big three goes bust is bollocks.

    Chevrolet dealers will become Honda or Toyota dealers, parts suppliers will supply parts to other auto manufacturers who build in the US.


    If they have any intrinsic value, successful auto manufacturers will buy their "good" assets and the end of the world will be averted. Bailouts are a crutch for bad business. What next? If Microsoft has a bad year will they be bailed out? There is no end.

    Screw the big 3!! Let them eat cake. They deserve to reap what they have sowed.

    The poll asks "will" the government bail them out so I will have to vote yes even though I strongly disagree and believe it is politics based on buying votes. Something Thailand is much criticized for doing
    I entirely agree with you Norton and voted in this poll with the same feelings as you.

    The FED is hell-bent on accelerating national bankruptcy and default by this bailout route. Jaysus, even individual cities and real estate agents are asking for bailout funds!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texpat
    Watch your mouth Mister Racist
    Excuse me where is the racist content???

  19. #19
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    ^It's all in the smiley!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texpat
    That's the Messiah you're blaspheming
    Messiah eh!! is that the promised "LEND"

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texpat View Post
    Watch your mouth Mister Racist. That's the Messiah you're blaspheming.
    I am racist instead and I think that when a white majority country elects a negro as president the people must really be gone nuts. Just watch what happened to Zimbabwe and South Africa when leadership went black. And just because there's no end to disgrace, the negro has even called the feminazi to be his secretary of state. Prepare for an era of doom and gloom.

  22. #22
    watterinja
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    ^ What's that got to do with automakers & the proposed bail-out?

  23. #23
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    They should bail them out. US cars, are very good quality automobiles, I don't know what people are talking about, when saying their not. What does Thailand or Japan charge for import tax on a US vehicle? I think the US needs to up the import tax to match countries they do business with, and eliminate unfair competition. Furthermore the US should put a hefty import tax on all imported goods just like Thailand does. How can the US compete with workers that are paid 200 or maybe 300Baht a day, which is probably what Toyota pays it's workers, not even mentioning medical insurance for US workers. Toyota probably doesn't even pay import tax in the US, on the vehicles that are made in Thailand. The US government should pull it's head out of its ass, and look to taking care of it's own people. Stop unfair trade practices which costs the US jobs. Who cares that their a developing economy, or third world country, let them take care of themselves. Lets concentrate on our own.

  24. #24
    Hansum Man! panama hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Burr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    Germany, France and Japan have unionised workforces, their wages are high, the social contributions are high etc . . .

    These country's auto-makers have diversified, started up plants in consumer's countries, made quality their modus operandi, went with or started the trend for fuel efficiency, looked at consumer needs and wants . . .

    . . . while the US automakers kept making gas guzzlers, continued to make uncompetitive and low-quality cars.

    Export . . . how many US cars do you see in Thailand, Australia, Germany, France, Japan, South Africa, Denmark etc . . .
    The US car-makers foreign brands do reasonably well as they make cars for the market they're in. Ford do reasonably well in Europe, GM / Opel / Vauxhall / Holden also do well in the countries they're made.
    It's the home market that is completely buggered.


    Absolutely, but the Ford, Holden, Vauxhall, Opel have zero in common with their cousins in the US. (Ok, probably not zero as someone will surey point out).

    How many cars does the US export? certainly not as many as Japan . . . definitely not as many as Germany. Hardly as many as KOREA. More than France? How about Italy? Let's low-ball and call it Malaysia (being facetious here)
    .
    Actually, Canada is full of American cars . . . other than that, possibly Mexico and then that's pretty much it.


    Technology. World trends. Quality. Customer requirements. And the list goes on.

  25. #25
    My kind of town
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smeg View Post
    1 in 10 jobs in the US rely on it. What a ridiculous situation to be in, in a country that probably spends more on trying to put men on mars than on trying to develop efficent engines
    I certainly felt safer and enjoyed driving my Lincoln Navigator more than I do the vehicle I now have in Thailand. The Navigator beats the stuffings out of a Honda Jazz or a tuktuk any day.

    Was it a gas guzzler? I never noticed. I filled it up when it needed it.

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