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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Poor sods probably can't get any Isaan somtam down there.
    Those detained are from the South and probably missing squirrel curry.

  2. #27
    Thailand Expat nevets's Avatar
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    Got loads of squirrel in my garden and out on the land .

  3. #28
    DaffyDuck
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog View Post
    I'm not into conspiracy theories, but you have to wonder if the establishment weren't hoping the reds would totally self destruct by creating so much damage and chaos.
    Doesn't need a conspiracy theory -- just a smartly planned and well executed, albeit slightly risky, strategy.

    The reason it blind-sided the Reds, is because the concept of planning and executing a complex strategy is completely dazzling to most Thais, especially their politicians.

    Well, except for maybe 2 of them.

    I find it fascinating that the Blue/Red farang contingent on here constantly underestimate Suthep and Abhisit.

  4. #29
    DaffyDuck
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog View Post
    “He also might not be able to launch any campaign in Bangkok as the people got angry because many of protesters were killed”, Mr Worawat said.

    The MP did not believe the red-shirts had set fire to several places in Bangkok as they did not have time to do so.
    Who does this guy represent?

    Oh yeah, the people of Bangkok are angry, alright... just not for what he thinks. Send some red shirts out in the street, and let's see how much sympathy they get from the people of Bangkok...

    What an idiot.

  5. #30
    Member dotcom's Avatar
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    Razor wire gone from Patpong. Rama 4 road is a fucking mess.

    BTS opens today (Sunday) according to their website.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
    Head Forensic Department Dr Pornthip Rojanasunan disclosed that car bombs were found by security task force in 4 Rajprasong areas.
    Did the idiot find them with her magic bomb divining rods.........

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog View Post
    Again, translated.

    Thai-ASEAN News Network

    New Political Standards under the “Thai Model”
    UPDATE : 21 May 2010

    Rioting following the submission to arrest of the core-leaders of the red shirt protest group actually did not come beyond any expectations or predictions of the situation. Despite announcing that they were turning themselves in to avoid bloodshed and any more loss of lives,the statements of the core-leaders to their gathered masses did not contain any call for them to lay down arms or give up their fight. The omission was enough for the more radical elements of the red shirt group to take to the streets across the nation and stirring up chaos and terrorize Thais nationwide.

    The events that ensued after the end of the Ratchaprasong rally seemed to have been hinted in the days before the leaders turned themselves in. Ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra, during his many interviews with international press agencies, commented that Thailand’s conflict would likely last for years to come, alluding to the words of General Theeranun Nanthakwang who said that guerilla tactics would only likely be seen in the next one to two years. It can be believed that such unrest would be in line with the red agenda of making the government fail and forcing upon Thailand intervention measures from the foreign community or organization.

    The international community however seems a step ahead of Thailand’s ill-wishers with major organizations such as the United Nations choosing not to denounce or criticize the Abhisit Vejjajiva government’s actions in reclaiming protest sites. What could be regarded as a “Thai Model” has emerged as a method on how to deal with protests. The Thai model focuses on patience, restraint and the administration’s, much touted, commitment to employ incrementally strengthened measures against the protesters. The abundance of evidence pointing to the non-peaceful and outright hateful actions by the red shirt group have also helped boost the image of the administration.

    Another new standard established by the Thai Model that may not be so apparent to the UN and other nations is the fact that House dissolution and a political change are not always needed to overcome conflict. This is an especially key matter for Thailand as it has always seemed to want a either a new government or regime whenever there's a seemingly unbreakable deadlock.

    Ultimately, the success of the Thai Model and the Abhisit government can be seen in the numbers. Early projections of the losses from the resolution of the red shirt protest were that 300-500 lives would be lost. Though any casualty is never good, the latest death toll, released by the Erawan Emergency Center has, is at 52.

    Kom Chad Luek Editorial, May 21 2010
    Translated and Rewritten by Itiporn Lakarnchua





    SD you have been doing a fantastic job keeping us all up to date with events, but I want to ask you very cordially how you see the following.

    I know that you are very aware Thailand is still under the Draconian censor laws, as you rightly so yourself have criticised sharply again and again.

    In passing on to the board even the worst opinionated spin and propaganda trash, like the piece I quote, and a few others (translated) in this thread, is it not possible that you unintentionally, are playing right into the hands of the people behind those censorship laws who wish only one version of their fabricated truth's to be heard ?.

    The overweight of opinionated factually undocumented and strongly politically coloured material from Thai media/sources is an obvious consequence of the strict measures curbing the media and free speech, if I was to pass all that along uncritically I would feel that I somehow would become the mouthpiece of the very people suppressing free information!

    Maybe you do not read all that you post because you just want to give us as much info as possible, and it is too time consuming to read it all from end to end ?

    In one of the posts the murders by Soldiers of unarmed protesters are called "alleged" for Christ sake it's on foreign Journalists witness statements, video and photos, but no doubt as to the identity of the arsonists is expressed in the post, not that it is needed because that is on video and photos as-well, but it clearly renders the whole piece trash.

    We have a poor Lady who cant go to work any more, and a very wealthy by Thai standards restaurant owner that cant make his 10.000 Thb a day any-more, and that is of-cause terrible inconvenient.

    But dont you ask yourself why so little on families who have had Fathers, Mothers and Sons murdered by Government employes on the streets of the Capital, and how they are going to manage the future! Do we really need to hear about every Thai who have lost money!

    Not to mention the quoted post, that has got to be one of the worst most ridiculous pieces of Thai arrogance and utter stupidity displayed on this board ever, in some ways it almost would have deserved a place in the fun and jokes section, I quote-

    "the statements of the core-leaders to their gathered masses did not contain any call for them to lay down arms or give up their fight."

    This is false, we know several red leaders who the last days from stage asked the protesters to stop the violence sit down and let the Soldiers come in to take them, but the crowd would not have it. We also know some red leaders told them not to loot and destroy private property during the protests. so the truth is not so black and white as described.

    Then we have this gem-

    "United Nations choosing not to denounce or criticize the Abhisit Vejjajiva government’s actions in reclaiming protest sites."

    This is a blatant lie the size of an elefant, or maybe this guy do not understand diplomatic language! UN asked Abhisit urgently to comply with chapter 9 regarding the use of lethal force as Abhisit himself had announced they would. They also asked for the urgent stop of violence on both sides and for negotiations to be set in motion.

    And this tops the lot revealing many High So Thais megalomaniac nature-

    "What could be regarded as a “Thai Model” has emerged as a method on how to deal with protests."

    "Another new standard established by the Thai Model that may not be so apparent to the UN and other nations is the fact that House dissolution and a political change are not always needed to overcome conflict."


    So now they are teaching the World, that murdering unarmed people in the streets and ending up with arson and carnage from protesters is a new standard to maybe follow and study

    And that not holding elections if a very big part of the electorate vehemently demands it because a Governments legitimacy is questioned, is not the democratic and righteous way forward

    It would be funny if it was not because very many Thais really believe this shit and probably a couple of posters here, instead it is tragicomical.

    IMHO a little less in quantity, and instead stuff carefully selected containing documented facts confirmed by independent sources, since we are going to be afloat in Government and government sympathisers propaganda spin, clever after-rationalisations and private opinion pieces awash with undocumented trash following the government allowed line, all of it saying more or less the same repeated in slightly different ways again and again and again.

    Last edited by larvidchr; 23-05-2010 at 06:04 AM.

  8. #33
    Enjoys sheep mr Fred's Avatar
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    I'm not very up on Thai politics so forgive what may be a daft question.
    Have the reds actually achieved anything they set out to do?

  9. #34
    DaffyDuck
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr Fred View Post
    I'm not very up on Thai politics so forgive what may be a daft question.
    Have the reds actually achieved anything they set out to do?
    Well, they set out to burn Bangkok down including setting Central World ablaze, burn it down, and loot ... At that STATED GOAL they have been very successful - not sure how that worked out politically, though...

  10. #35
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    Mr Fred....not yet....

    Larv, I've no doubt some of the stuff in those articles is utter tripe, but I thought they were important to include so that people here can see what is being said by the Thai press. You raise some good points. I don't disagree. I'm not the censor here though.
    "Slavery is the daughter of darkness; an ignorant people is the blind instrument of its own destruction; ambition and intrigue take advantage of the credulity and inexperience of men who have no political, economic or civil knowledge. They mistake pure illusion for reality, license for freedom, treason for patriotism, vengeance for justice."-Simón Bolívar

  11. #36
    DaffyDuck
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    Quote Originally Posted by larvidchr View Post
    In passing on to the board even the worst opinionated spin and propaganda trash, like the piece I quote, and a few others (translated) in this thread, is it not possible that you unintentionally, are playing right into the hands of the people behind those censorship laws who wish only one version of their fabricated truth's to be heard ?.
    a) You can't accuse SD of opinionated propaganda, and then turn around and throw out even more opinionated propaganda of your own.

    b) The censorship argument has nothing to do with any of your other grievances against the Abhisit administration. There was the same, if not more so, censorship going on under Thaksin.

    c) 60 or 80 people died in these protests. The vast majority of dead are people that were shot, while either looting, or violently attacking the army, or others, with guns or other weapons. All things considered, the casualty count was surprisingly low.

    d) Mirror this to the well-known Tak Bai incident, where people that had done practically nothing were arrested, thrown into trucks, and left to die from suffocation or their wounds. When called to task, then PM Thaksin said the men died "because they were already weak from fasting during the month of Ramadan.".

    Yeah, you're right - the Abhisit model is worse, and far more indicative of criminal actions. I'm sorry, but you seem to be blinded by your own propaganda opinions to see what is actually going on.

  12. #37
    DaffyDuck
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    The international community however seems a step ahead of Thailand’s ill-wishers with major organizations such as the United Nations choosing not to denounce or criticize the Abhisit Vejjajiva government’s actions in reclaiming protest sites. What could be regarded as a “Thai Model” has emerged as a method on how to deal with protests. The Thai model focuses on patience, restraint and the administration’s, much touted, commitment to employ incrementally strengthened measures against the protesters. The abundance of evidence pointing to the non-peaceful and outright hateful actions by the red shirt group have also helped boost the image of the administration.

    Another new standard established by the Thai Model that may not be so apparent to the UN and other nations is the fact that House dissolution and a political change are not always needed to overcome conflict. This is an especially key matter for Thailand as it has always seemed to want a either a new government or regime whenever there's a seemingly unbreakable deadlock.

    Ultimately, the success of the Thai Model and the Abhisit government can be seen in the numbers. Early projections of the losses from the resolution of the red shirt protest were that 300-500 lives would be lost. Though any casualty is never good, the latest death toll, released by the Erawan Emergency Center has, is at 52.
    Bears repeating.

  13. #38
    Thailand Expat
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaffyDuck
    The reason it blind-sided the Reds,
    Spectacular Blindsiding.

    Central World in ashes, Center One down, Stock Exhange damaged, around thirty buildings in Bangkok burnt down. Town Halls in Ubon, Mukdahan, Khon Kaen and several other places burnt, riots in Chiang Mai.

    Government has already admitted it failed to see the outcome of their actions. They were blindsided all right.
    probes Aliens

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr Fred
    Have the reds actually achieved anything they set out to do?
    The 'Roadmap' that was announced during the protests, leading to democratic elections, is still being adhered to according to a government announcement. Will it be? We'll just have to wait and see.

    Apart from that, it has really just divided the country more as far as I can see. I guess few would question the resolve of the Reds now.

  15. #40
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    technical question for sabang and friends if he dares to answer:

    so you are supporting the reds for an election no matter what, correct ? because it's about respecting the votes, not matter what, even if that vote doesn't follow certain democratic principles. Let's assume they are.

    if the reds were to declare tomorrow that they will turn the country upside down, burn the cities to install a "pro-revolutionary" government, put the "elite" in re-education camp, and create a brutal dictatorship for the people with a tight control of the press, do you still think that their votes should count and be respected no matter what ?

  16. #41
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    Possibly my last update.

    As of this morning all the roads are open. The cleaning team have been in and done a spectacular job. Quite impressed.

    People are still nervous about going out and driving through here. Very small amounts of pedestrians and cars, but life is slowly returning to normal.

    The curfew here was strictly enforced with teams of motorbike riding cops running around throughout the night. It usually took the form of a police car and 10++ motorbikes, safety in numbers I guess.

    The Thai police...brave Sir Robin's everyone.

  17. #42
    DaffyDuck
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DaffyDuck
    The reason it blind-sided the Reds,
    Spectacular Blindsiding.

    Central World in ashes, Center One down, Stock Exhange damaged, around thirty buildings in Bangkok burnt down. Town Halls in Ubon, Mukdahan, Khon Kaen and several other places burnt, riots in Chiang Mai.

    Government has already admitted it failed to see the outcome of their actions. They were blindsided all right.
    It does get boring to argue / play with utterly uneducated people, even if fun for a short time.

    Most people can't plan ahead for more than 30 days; realistically, most don't see ahead farther than 3; I do hope you know to plan your next meal, because you sure have absolutely zero long-term vision.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly
    so you are supporting the reds for an election no matter what, correct ?
    Incorrect. I am supporting democratic elections. Who I might support in those elections, I don't know yet- but anything is better than the current farce. If the Dem's can actually get their act together and muster sufficient votes to form an actual government, instead of the current corrupt, undemocratic, factionalised joke, they might be OK.

    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly
    if the reds were to declare tomorrow that they will turn the country upside down, burn the cities to install a "pro-revolutionary" government, put the "elite" in re-education camp, and create a brutal dictatorship for the people with a tight control of the press, do you still think that their votes should count and be respected no matter what ?
    If, like the PAD, the Reds were to declare themselves an enemy of Democracy and the democratic vote I would obviously not support them. Strange question, haven't I already made that obvious?

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang
    but anything is better than the current farce.
    gee, you must be a bit naive then because do you really think it will get any better than that ?

    looks what's inline behind, Chalerm, Chavalit and probably a few dictators we haven't thought about yet.

    They have nothing. The election will solve nothing, so instead of changing the team every 6 months, work with one that has possibilities.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang
    If, like the PAD, the Reds were to declare themselves an enemy of Democracy and the democratic vote I would obviously not support them. Strange question, haven't I already made that obvious?
    what I meant precisely was would you support the "democratic" outcome of the vote knowing that they will be voted in by the usual clueless cattle ? your support of the reds is not the question,

  21. #46
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    Like it or not, the last effective PM this country had was Thaksin. Who just happened to be democratically elected.

    Thaksinomics, Thaksin's economic policies, helped accelerate Thailand's economic recovery from the 1997 Asian Financial Crisis and substantially reduce poverty. GDP grew from 4.9 trillion baht at the end of 2001 to 7.1 trillion baht at the end of 2006. Thailand repaid its debts to the International Monetary Fund two years ahead of schedule.
    Thaksin Shinawatra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    And what have our marvellous Military & Elite appointed governments ever achieved since, over the heads of the people? Riddle me that, Joker.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang
    Like it or not, the last effective PM this country had was Thaksin. Who just happened to be democratically elected.
    you keep repeating the same garbage over and over, like an abused sect follower mourning his guru

    what he did was to appease the "mass" by making very small social progress, replacing an existing HC social plan with a worst one just for political publicity. Democratically elected, my ass, buying votes from clueless peasant is hardly democratic,

    but of course all of that will be lost on you

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang
    And what have our marvellous Military & Elite appointed governments ever achieved since, over the heads of the people?
    they are too busy fighting the petty criminals from their coalition and PT, but yes they could do more.

  24. #49
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    ^^ See Wiki quote above. Amazing what a government can do if it has an electoral mandate from the people, and therefore seats in parliament. Amazing what a government can't do if it is a factional squabbling mess- preoccupied with it's own political survival, meeting the various, competing demands of it's stakeholders (many of whom, such as the military, are not elected- like the government itself) and demonising a political enemy that remains considerably more popular than them.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang
    See Wiki quote above. Amazing what a government can do if it has an electoral mandate from the people, and therefore seats in parliament. Amazing what a government can't do if it is a factional squabbling mess- preoccupied with it's own political survival, meeting the various, competing demands of it's stakeholders (many of whom, such as the military, are not elected- like the government itself) and demonising a political enemy that remains considerably more popular than them.
    Kool Aid ? or yaba ? come on you can't be serious

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