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  1. #26
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    2 wrongs don't make a right

  2. #27
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    ^ indeed, but exception do exist. If you are shooting from a church and putting everyone in danger, you will be shot back. It's common sense.

  3. #28
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    ^ Including paramedics/ Red cross personnel? You reject the Geneva Convention then.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang
    Including paramedics/ Red cross personnel? You reject the Geneva Convention then.
    we don't know the circumstances and who did it ? could have been reds disguised to help out their friends and pick their weapons to shoot, who the fuck knows.

    reds have been smuggling weapons using ambulances and "red cross" vehicles so who knows. I don't see military shooting people without cause, and with the press around taking pics, too much liability

  5. #30
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    The army did a fantastic job, you have to admit it.

    The only ones not happy are the reds, not enough dead bodies for them and nothing to show for the sacrifice they made.

  6. #31
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    ^ Small matter of the Roadmap, leading to elections, although it seems few here believe in it.

  7. #32
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    I don't know if this Bangkok Post article will be helpful for understanding the recent events at this temple. However, its history shouldn't be buried from future discussion. This temple and the surrounding neighborhood have symbolic importance that hasn't been discussed in mainstream media. You might have to read between some of the lines in this article, but there are some factors worth noting. I wrote the piece nearly two years ago, but it is still relevant today.

    Learning Curve

  8. #33
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    Families of 6 slain at Bangkok temple file homicide complaint against Thai PM, his deputy

    BANGKOK, June 3 (TNA) - The families of the six fatalities found at Bangkok's Pathumwanaran Temple May 19 filed a police complaint Thursday at the Crime Suppression Division, accusing Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban for premeditated murder of their family members.

    Mr Suthep is director of the Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES) which oversees security operation under Emergency Decree imposed in Bangkok since early April.

    Thai Army chief Gen Anupong Paochinda and other army commanders who supervised the security operation on May 19 were also accused in the complaint lodged by the relatives of six victims.

    The plaintiffs, led by opposition Puea Thai spokesman Prompong Nopparit, also submitted evidence in the form of video clips and photos of what took place within Pathumwanaram Temple to police investigators.

    The Puea Thai spokesman urged the police not to treat the case as a special case, citing that the cases under the Department of Special Investigation, particularly the April 10 incident, experienced no progress.

    The bodies of the six victims were found in the temple near Ratchaprasong intersection the following day after security operation to seal off the Red Shirt rally site on May 19.

    Opposition MPs said during the no-confidence debate early this week that they were shot by army personnel stationed on the BTS Skytrain tracks, while the prime minister said soldiers did not kill them as autopsy results showed the victims were shot from ground level.

    Gen Anupong also reaffirmed Thursday morning that no soldiers were in the area at that time and none of them used arms against the ordinary demonstrators as they had been instructed to strictly adhere to the principle that they will not harm the people.

    The CRES earlier reported armed groups mingled with innocent Red Shirt protesters and attempted to attack troops. Both sides also clashed in key intersections close to Ratchaprasong, while the country's largest shopping mall CentralWorld and more than 30 buildings in the Thai capital were set afire by disgruntled protesters after their leaders surrendered to police.

    Rescue workers and firemen, however, could not reach the burning buildings as they were threatened by gunfire from militants, while the army claimed its personnel had not yet entered the Ratchaprasong area as they were blocked by the armed groups.

    The premier said he will set up a panel to investigate the incidents related to the deadly clashes between security forces and the protesters which led to at least 88 deaths and nearly 1,900 injured during the past two months.

    mcot.net
    Last edited by Mid; 04-06-2010 at 04:24 PM.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken May View Post
    I don't know if this Bangkok Post article will be helpful for understanding the recent events at this temple. However, its history shouldn't be buried from future discussion. This temple and the surrounding neighborhood have symbolic importance that hasn't been discussed in mainstream media. You might have to read between some of the lines in this article, but there are some factors worth noting. I wrote the piece nearly two years ago, but it is still relevant today.

    Learning Curve
    Reading between the lines is crucial, thanks for posting this.

  10. #35
    Mid
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog View Post
    Bangkok Post : In the line of fire ... but spared by fate

    In the line of fire ... but spared by fate

    A photographer saw a man shot dead in front of him at Wat Pathum Wanaram and now police are hoping his photos can help reconstruct eventsIt's unsettling to think that the bullet with your name on it was collected by another soul.


    EVIDENCE: Tickner’s photo on his police statement.

    But that's what Australian photographer, Stephen Tickner, a key witness in the investigation of the six deaths at Wat Pathum Wanaram, found out recently when he travelled to Bangkok to give evidence to the Metropolitan Police Bureau inquiry into the killings.

    At 5.49pm on May 19, 2010, Tickner was standing not far from the entrance of the temple in the middle of Rama I Road, changing his camera lens, as he heard gunfire approaching from the direction of the Siam Paragon mall.

    A young man in a white shirt was sprinting down the road towards him. As he reached Tickner, he suddenly fell violently to the ground. The photographer was unsure what had happened.

    ''It's not like a Hollywood movie with lots of blood,'' he said.


    KEY WITNESS: Stephen Tickner was at Wat Pathum Wanaram when six were killed.

    Had the young man tripped over or been shot? Tickner turned around and saw the man, Atthachai Chumchan, 28, had crawled to the median strip under an overhead railway line and was lying on his back, his white shirt now covered in blood.

    With the help of a monk, Tickner dragged Atthachai into the temple compound, but his life could not be saved.

    One of the medics treating Atthachai, along with two others who were also wearing distinguishable red cross armbands, was also killed by gunfire that evening.

    Tickner, a freelancer, had always believed Atthachai was killed by soldiers advancing down the road. But when he gave his statement to police on Dec 8 and 9, he learned from the autopsy report that the bullet had entered Atthachai's right shoulder at a 35-degree angle, puncturing both his lungs. The shooter had been stationed on the median strip and police believe Tickner was his target.

    ''To be honest, when I looked at that autopsy, that threw me quite a bit,'' Tickner told the Bangkok Post Sunday. ''What I realised is that if he hadn't been where he was at the time, the bullet would have hit me.''

    When asked if there was a theory that he was the target, Tickner said: ''There is now. Police say this is their thinking on this, that in fact they probably had me targeted and because he [Atthachai] was running so fast it was just luck _ bad luck for him, good luck for me _ which is a bit disturbing.''

    Police have told Tickner he is a key witness in the case; his digital photographs, with date and time stamps, are crucial in helping them reconstruct a timeline of events.

    The veteran photographer was at the temple, a designated safe haven, from late that afternoon until around 7am the next day.

    Police told Tickner they placed more store in his statement than in other witnesses, as he is a foreigner with no political agenda and has prior experience of working in live fire zones, such as East Timor.

    ''They seem to put a fair bit of weight on it, but that's not for me to judge,'' said Tickner, from Newcastle in New South Wales.

    The photographer said he did not capture any images of soldiers firing from the railway line, but he is certain there were no gunmen in the temple and no running gun battles outside.

    In statements to the Department of Special Investigation inquiry into the shootings, officers and soldiers from the Special Forces Regiment at Lop Buri said seven soldiers were deployed on the BTS track on the Wat Pathum Wanaram side to provide cover for ground troops.

    One unnamed soldier said they had exchanged gunfire with armed persons inside the temple and there was a 10-minute gun battle on the BTS track.

    But Tickner said from his observations there was nothing to justify any sort of shooting.

    ''To my knowledge there were no weapons inside the temple,'' he said. ''I pointed out to [police] in follow-up statements that I'm press photographer, so if I'd seen a red shirt or a black shirt with so much as a slingshot in their hand I would have photographed them as a matter of course.

    ''But those photos don't exist. The photos inside the temple show kids on mats, mothers, fathers, all these kind of people. Certainly there were some guys there, but they were nothing like the black shirts I'd seen in previous days.''

    Tickner gave a statement to the DSI in September 2010 and said he was contacted via email by metropolitan police in August this year after they had seen some of his photos on the red shirt protests on a website.

    When asked if he was surprised at a second request to make a statement, Tickner said it made more sense with a change of government as police had been given a ''green light'' to conduct a full investigation.

    He said as a photo journalist he had reservations about being a witness for police, but part of his decision was based on the fatal shootings of Italian photographer Fabio Polenghi and Japanese cameraman Hiroyuki Muramoto during the 2010 unrest.

    ''It becomes a question of, do you try to stop that type of targeting of journalists by not giving evidence, or do you try to stop it by making people in positions of authority accountable for their actions,'' he said.

    Tickner says he will stay in Thailand for now and is willing to testify if the prosecution cases proceed.
    see also : http://teakdoor.com/battle-for-bangk...-compound.html (Unholy night in the temple compound)

  11. #36
    Mid
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    Mother demands firm date for slain daughter's compensation
    May 16, 2012

    The mother of a victim killed in the 2010 bloodshed at Wat Pathum has demanded a firm date and clear guidelines for paying the compensation from the PM's Office.

    Phayao Akhad Wednesday filed a complaint saying the authorities failed to pay the compensation for her dead daughter Kamolket on May 15 as promised.

    "I am very disappointed because the authorities keep shifting the date for compensation payments," she said.

    Phayao said she wanted to bring the lack of a clear deadline to the attention of PM's Office secretary general Tongthong Chandransu, who is in charge of compensating the bloodshed victims.

    nationmultimedia.com

  12. #37
    Mid
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    Prayuth will not say sorry for slain medic
    26/05/2012

    Army chief Prayuth Chan-ocha has rejected a call by the mother of a volunteer medic killed during the political violence in 2010 for him to apologise.

    He yesterday said he had already expressed his condolences to those directly affected by the political violence from March to May in 2010.

    "I sent my condolences to [the families] of those who died. And among the victims were soldiers. Is there anyone who wants to apologise to them?" Gen Prayuth said.

    The army chief was responding to a report that Payao Akkahad, mother of Kamolkate who was gunned down inside Wat Pathum Wanaram on May 19, 2010, would lodge a petition demanding an apology from both the army and the government.

    She said although the Yingluck Shinawatra administration was not involved in the operation to crack down on the red shirts in 2010, on behalf of the government of Thailand, it should apologise to the victims to show the deaths were the fault of government officials.

    Gen Prayuth said that fairness must be ensured for both sides while expressing support for the rehabilitation scheme for the victims.

    He insisted soldiers were simply doing their job during the operations.

    "When they perform their duty, they must do their best. It is a military requirement. If there are things that lead to violence and divisiveness, they must be tackled in other processes," he said.

    He also denounced attempts to create divisions between the military and the people, saying it would put the nation in jeopardy.

    Defence Minister ACM Sukumpol Suwanatat yesterday called on those directly affected by the political violence to make sure they sued the right people.

    He said the Pheu Thai-led administration did not bar victims from filing lawsuits against individuals who they believed should be held responsible.
    "They can sue the individuals involved. But they shouldn't sue the government which pays [compensation].

    "In fact, they can sue the government if they want. It depends on the court to decide," he said.

    The families of some victims have become upset on learning that they would have to drop lawsuits against the state to receive payouts.

    bangkokpost.com

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mid
    He insisted soldiers were simply doing their job during the operations.
    Interesting that the General describes military snipers firing into clearly marked medical tents located in a Wat designated for sanctuary, from an elevated and protected position, killing and wounding not just injured protesters, but uninvolved medical personnel, as 'simply doing their job'. Very interesting, indeed.

    So can we assume they were simply following orders then, General? There is no question this was an atrocity.
    probes Aliens

  14. #39
    Mid
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    Military bullets killed civilians
    19/06/2012

    Police say temple dead shot from elevated spot

    Police have confirmed five of the six people killed at Wat Pathum Wanaram during the crackdown on red shirts on May 19, 2010 were shot with bullets normally used by military forces.

    Testifying before the Southern Bangkok Criminal Court, Pol Col Suebsak Phansura, deputy chief of the Metropolitan Police Bureau's division 6, yesterday said the bullets were .223 calibre, which are used with M16 and Tavor rifles, which are for military use. All of the victims were shot from an elevated spot, he said.

    The six people killed were Suwan Sriraksa, 30, a farmer; Atthachai Chumchan, 28, a law school graduate; Mongkol Khemthong, 36, a rescue worker; Rop Suksathit, 66, a hired driver; Kamonkade Akkahad, 25, a volunteer nurse; and Akkharadej Khankaew, 22, a hired hand.

    Pol Col Suebsak, who heads the investigating team looking into the deaths, said the six victims and other red-shirt demonstrators had gathered at the temple to wait for transport home, while soldiers from two units were guarding the Siam Paragon department store and the Siam skytrain station.

    While queueing up to use a temple toilet, Suwan was shot and died at the scene, while Atthachai was gunned down while crossing the road to the temple. Shortly afterwards, Rop and Mongkol, both standing in front of the temple entrance, were shot.

    Kamonkade and Akkharadej were shot while trying to flee, said the officer. The bodies of the six civilians were later sent for autopsies.

    Pol Col Suebsak said his investigators had summoned experts to help examine the direction of the bullets and they found that five of the killed, except Atthachai, had been shot by .223 calibre bullets that were fired from elevated positions to ground level.

    His team had interrogated soldiers based at the skytrain station who claimed men in black had fired at them from the ground up toward the skytrain track. But ballistic tests showed no bullets had been fired from ground level, he said.

    In a separate hearing yesterday, the wife of a taxi driver slain on May 15, 2010, told the court that former prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, former deputy prime minister Suthep Thaugsuban, and former army commander Gen Anupong Paojinda must be held responsible for his death. Charnarong Polsila, 45, was shot dead on Ratchaprarop Road.

    Suriyan Polsila, 47, Charnarong's wife, told the court that her husband was merely a protester.

    Mr Abhisit declared the Emergency Decree on April 7, 2010 and then appointed Mr Suthep director of the Centre for Restoration of Emergency Situations and Gen Anupong as deputy director. Mrs Suriyan said this made them responsible for her husband's death.

    Mr Suthep took charge of the area to reclaim operations against the red-shirt protest and Gen Anupong directly issued the crackdown order to the military, which resulted in 91 deaths.

    "They have never expressed any regret to my family or showed any responsibility since his death," Mrs Suriyan said.

    Siriporn Ruangsinoon, 52, a legal representative for Mrs Suriyan and her two daughters, said the Abhisit government's operations were not in line with international standards which should start with a soft approach, including warnings, and gradually increase to hard measures.

    Nick Nostitz, a German freelance journalist and a witness for the plaintiffs, told the court that on May 15, 2010, he met Charnarong and took his photo just a minute before he was shot.

    Mr Nostitz said the injured Charnarong tried to crawl from the scene to hide at a petrol station with help from two other individuals. When the soldiers moved to the petrol station, Mr Nostitz said he told them to help Charnarong. He heard them call an ambulance.

    Thilo Thielke, a Der Spiegel journalist, 44, told the court that he saw Charnarong get shot but he didn't see who shot him.

    Minutes after he took the photos of the protesters, he managed to take photos of Charnarong being shot.

    The next hearing is on Monday. There will be 32 more hearings, with 17 prosecution witnesses and 15 from the damaged parties.

    bangkokpost.com

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    Aussie Reporter Testifies To Court: Redshirts Were Not Armed
    14 June 2013

    The Australian journalist who was taking shelter in Pathumwanararm Temple after the military forces dispersed the main encampment of the Redshirts on 19 May 2010 testified to the court today that he had seen no armed elements among the protesters.

    Mr. Steve Tickner added that the temple, designated as ′Safe Zone′ for the protesters by the authorities at the time, came under hails of gunfire for hours.

    Mr. Tickner was testifying as a witness to the Criminal Court in Bangkok, which is attempting to establish who was responsible for 6 deaths in the temple, including some volunteer medics.

    Redshirts have accused the military as firing at the temple from overlooking BTS track, citing video of the incident as evidence, but the army and members of the former government under Mr. Abhisit Vejjajeeva have always denied the allegation.

    The Australian reporter told the court that he visited the Redshirts main camp at Central World shopping mall on 15-17 May, wearing green armband to signify his press status. He said most of the protesters were farmers, children, and ordinary people. He said he saw no armed group in the protest site.

    Nonetheless, on 18 May he saw group of men equipped with homemade bombs standing around Lumpini Park, but they were standing apart from the protesters, according to his testimony.

    On 19 May - the day of final assault by the military - Mr. Tickner said he returned to the shopping mall around 06.00-07.00, which was very difficult task because the military have besieged the area. He said he saw soldiers armed with M-16 rifles, sniper rifles, and shotguns around the perimeter.

    He told the court that after the Redshirts leaders announced their surrender at 13.00 some of the protesters took shelter in Pathumwanararm Temple (also known as Wat Pathum). He said he was walking in front of the temple around 18.00 when he heard gunfire from direction of Siam Paragon shopping mall, and saw around 20 people - unarmed - ran toward the temple.

    Mr. Tickner said he saw a man falling down, helped himself up, and slumped onto a BTS pillar. When Mr. Tickner went to investigate, he said, the man was bleeding profusely from the bullet wound in his chest, so he and a monk helped carry him to the temple. The man was later identified as Mr. Atchai Chumchan.

    Mr. Tickner told the court that he later met a British journalist inside the temple called Andrew Buncombe. Mr. Buncombe reportedly told Mr. Tickner he saw guns being fire from the BTS track, but Mr. Tickner said he did not see anything. Nonetheless, he said the temple came under attack from gunfire unceasingly for hours, sending people inside the temple scurry to shelters.

    During the moment of sustained gunfire, he said, Mr. Buncombe was shot in the hip but he did not see the actual moment when the Briton was hit.

    He said he took some photos of the shooting, which started again around 21.00-22.00. Mr. Tickner said he left the temple around 08.00 on the next day.

    A lawyer asked him whether he saw any weapons around the Redshirts stage when he was observing the scene, and whether he saw any ′Blackshirt′ militant on 19 May 2010. Mr. Tickner answered no to both questions.

    khaosod.co.th

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    ^ Including paramedics/ Red cross personnel? You reject the Geneva Convention then.
    Since when did Thaksin respect "human rights"? All the Reds were was his bought and paid for political cannon fodder ,any one thinking any different should go and a get a "reality check"

  17. #42
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    Wat Pathum Wanaram victims killed by soldiers: Criminal Court
    August 6, 2013

    The Criminal Court ruled on Tuesday that the six individuals who were killed at Wat Pathum Wanaram during the 2010 political violence were fatally wounded by bullets fired by the state authorities.

    The Court said the victims were killed by 5.56mm high velocity bullets fired by soldiers stationed on Skytrain on Rama I Road. Another man was shot by soldiers from the ground.

    About 90 people were killed over several weeks in 2010 when the demonstrators occupied downtown Bangkok for nine weeks before they dispersed due to deadly army crackdown.

    The inquest dismissed claims by a soldier that there was an unidentified armed group near the temple when the shootings happened, saying there was not enough evidence. It also said the six people were not using any weapons when they were killed.

    nationmultimedia.com

  18. #43
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    Abhisit, Suthep Sued Over Crackdown Temple Deaths


    A member of the security force walk past dead bodies of 6 civilians killed in Wat Pathumwanararm Temple, 20 May 2010

    (14 March) Families of two civilians who were shot dead by the military during 2010 unrest have filed murder lawsuits against the former government leaders.

    Mr. Abhisit Vejjajiva and Mr. Suthep Thaugsuban, the Prime Minister and Deputy Prime Minister at the time, respectively, are named in the lawsuit, which aims to prosecute the two Democrats on charge of co-instructing other individuals to commit premeditated murders.

    The lawsuit specifically focused on the deaths of the two of six civilians who were shot as they took shelter inside Wat Pathumwanararm Temple in downtown Bangkok on 19 May 2010 - the day the military, acting under Mr. Abhisit's order, launched a final assault against the Redshirts' protesters who have been encamped in Bangkok's financial district for months.

    According to court inquest last year, the soldiers who were stationed on the BTS track opposite the temple fired their weapons into the sanctuary and subsequently killed the six civilians, despite the government's designating the temple as a "safe zone". Several volunteer medics are among the dead.

    Today, families of two of the slain civilians, Mr. Suwan Sriraksa and Mr. Attachai Chumchan, have appointed a lawyer to sue Mr. Abhisit and Mr. Suthep on their behalf.

    It is now up to the court whether to accept the lawsuit, said the lawyer, Mr. Chokechai Angkaew, during a press conference at the Ratchapisek Criminal Court in Bangkok.

    Families of 4 other victims who had been slain in Wat Pathumwanararm Temple are also considering their own lawsuits, but they are not ready to file the cases at the time, Mr. Chokechai told reporters.

    He added, "The victims' families have plenty of time to consider their lawsuit, because murder charges carry a limitation of 20 years".

    Mr. Abhisit and Mr. Suthep are also facing separate murder charges filed by the public prosecutors for their roles in 2010 crackdown, which claimed the lives of more than 90 people, most of them civilians.

    The former Prime Minister has acknowledged the charge and expressed his willingness to contest it in trials, while Mr. Suthep has repeatedly postponed the meeting with public prosecutors to acknowledge his charges, citing his need to lead anti-government protesters in their quest to oust Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra.

    en.khaosod.co.th

  19. #44
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    Wat Pathum case goes to prosecutors
    26/03/2014

    The Department of Special Investigation (DSI) has submitted the Wat Pathumwanaram murders case to the Attorney General's Office, recommending the prosecution of Abhisit Vejjajiva and Suthep Thaugsuban.

    Director-general Tarit Pengdit said the DSI recommended that Mr Abhisit be indicted as first defendant and Mr Suthep as second defendant on charges of collaborating to have other people kill others, and attempted murder under Sections 59, 80, 83, 84 and 288 of the Criminal Code.

    Collectively known as the "six murders at Wat Pathum", the case involves six health workers who were shot dead around noon on May 19, 2010, during the military crackdown on the long-running red-shirt protest.

    The victims were Suwan Sriraksa, Attachai Chumchan, Mongkol Khemthong, Rop Suksathit, Kamonkate Akkahad and Akkadej Khankaew. The charges also relate to serious injuries incurred by Narongsak Singmae, Bua Srithumma, Permsuk Jaiyen, Kittichai Kaengkan and Andrew Buncome.

    Earlier, the state prosecuters asked the court to rule on the cause of death of the six victims.

    The Bangkok Criminal Court ruled late last year that the six were killed by military calibre bullets coming from the direction of troops stationed at the nearby BTS station after they had taken control of the Ratchaprasong area.

    Mr Abhisit has already been indicted in other cases, but Mr Suthep, who is leading the People Democratic Committee for Reform protest, did not report to prosecutors after being summonsed. The Criminal Court has since issued a warrant for his arrest.

    bangkokpost.com

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