TeakDoor.com - The Thailand Forum - View Single Post - Joe the Plumber? Not a plumber. And not even called Joe

Thormaturge · 19-10-2008, 07:43 AM

^
British style socialism is much further to the left than anything the USA is familiar with, although it seems Obama is about to redress this.

The greater burden of tax in the UK falls on the middle class, first in the form of VAT and then in the form of income tax. It is those earning the average wage who pay, proportionally, the greater amount of tax. Necessities such as food do not bear VAT.

This money then gets redistributed to those "in need". The problem here is that the current benefits system can provide some of those who do not work with a higher living standard than some of those who are paying taxes and not working becomes an option.

You do understand that the National Insurance Contribution paid by the employee and employer on the "average" salary exceeds 20% ? That money doesn't go to provide luxury lifestyles for the wealthy, they can afford private healthcare anyway. What you seem to advocate is taking money from the wealthy, and from corporations, to support the middle-class. The middle class receive salaries already, and the problem is not how much they are paid but how much social security they have deducted. Having excessive social security deducted doesn't benefit the corporations or the wealthy - the social security money heads downhill. If anything, excessive deductions place upward pressure on wages.

I recall working hard, paying my National Insurance, and then finding the doctor's surgery so busy with "regulars" on the rare occasions I needed a doctor that
I had to make an appointment several days away. I ended up taking out private healthcare simply to get medical treatment that would enable me to continue working. This is the reality facing middle-class America today. You will only have free healthcare when doctors , nurses and orderlies work for free and the drug companies donate their products to the free government hospitals. Otherwise somebody will have to pay, and that will be the ones who are paying the taxes.

I am not getting into an argument over the rights and wrongs of providing free healthcare, food and housing for those who have no employment. I do find it absurd that people talk of "free" healthcare though. It is only free at the point of use. I sit and watch in disbelief as middle class America lines up to be sheered by Barak the Barber.

19-10-2008, 07:43 AM	#22 (permalink)
Thormaturge Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,518	^ British style socialism is much further to the left than anything the USA is familiar with, although it seems Obama is about to redress this. The greater burden of tax in the UK falls on the middle class, first in the form of VAT and then in the form of income tax. It is those earning the average wage who pay, proportionally, the greater amount of tax. Necessities such as food do not bear VAT. This money then gets redistributed to those "in need". The problem here is that the current benefits system can provide some of those who do not work with a higher living standard than some of those who are paying taxes and not working becomes an option. You do understand that the National Insurance Contribution paid by the employee and employer on the "average" salary exceeds 20% ? That money doesn't go to provide luxury lifestyles for the wealthy, they can afford private healthcare anyway. What you seem to advocate is taking money from the wealthy, and from corporations, to support the middle-class. The middle class receive salaries already, and the problem is not how much they are paid but how much social security they have deducted. Having excessive social security deducted doesn't benefit the corporations or the wealthy - the social security money heads downhill. If anything, excessive deductions place upward pressure on wages. I recall working hard, paying my National Insurance, and then finding the doctor's surgery so busy with "regulars" on the rare occasions I needed a doctor that I had to make an appointment several days away. I ended up taking out private healthcare simply to get medical treatment that would enable me to continue working. This is the reality facing middle-class America today. You will only have free healthcare when doctors , nurses and orderlies work for free and the drug companies donate their products to the free government hospitals. Otherwise somebody will have to pay, and that will be the ones who are paying the taxes. I am not getting into an argument over the rights and wrongs of providing free healthcare, food and housing for those who have no employment. I do find it absurd that people talk of "free" healthcare though. It is only free at the point of use. I sit and watch in disbelief as middle class America lines up to be sheered by Barak the Barber.