Thread: Mass Fraud Fears In US Election

Originally Posted by sabang

The other point is that a voter registration does not automatically give you a preordained vote- so for example where you have multiple registrations in one name, that will still lead to only one vote- if indeed they vote at all.

Sorry, don't follow you here.

^ This explains it better-

In fairness to Marshall, he makes the valid point that fraudulent registration doesn’t necessarily end up in fraudulent voting. “This is fraud against ACORN,” he writes. “They end up paying people for registering more people then they actually signed up. If you register me three times to vote, the registrar will see two new registrations of an already registered person and the ones won’t count. If I successfully register Mickey Mouse to vote, on election day, Mickey Mouse will still be a cartoon character who cannot go to the local voting station and vote.”

Who’s the Fraud? - The Opinionator Blog - NYTimes.com

And heres a transcript from a Fox interview with an Acorn spokesman-

Joining us live is Scott Levenson, national spokesperson for ACORN. Welcome, Scott, and let me ask you about Governor Palin's e-mail to find out if you agree with it.
First of all, has the ACORN pack endorsed Senator Obama for president?
SCOTT LEVENSON, ACORN NATIONAL SPOKESMAN: Yes, we have.
VAN SUSTEREN: And has Senator Obama's campaign paid $800,000 or any sum nearly that to any ACORN or ACORN affiliate to get out the vote?
LEVENSON: No--$800,000 was paid to CSI, a private organization. A small portion of that contract was paid to ACORN for get out the vote services in the primary.
VAN SUSTEREN: What do you say "small portion"? What's small portion?
LEVENSON: I believe it was $80,000.
VAN SUSTEREN: OK.
All right, here's the problem. In at least Cuyahoga County up in Ohio, and this is a state that's neck and neck--49 Obama, 47 McCain in our polls. ACORN has admitted to county election officials that it can't eliminate fraud from its operation. Did ACORN admit that?
LEVENSON: No.
In fact, this is a real important point, so I want to thank you for having me on. But it's important that the viewers I think hear the story of what's actually happened here.
We registered nationwide 1.3 million folks over an 18 month period, employing some 13,000 workers during that process. And during that time on a weekly basis, a by-weekly basis, we identified and tagged potential problem voter registration forms. At that time, we notified local boards of elections of those problematic forms.
What we're hearing about today, Greta, is the accumulation of those forms over an 18-month period that some folks are wrapping in an umbrella of fraud. And that's just not the case.
These are forms that we identified, we brought to the local board's attention, and we know that they might be problems and ask for the local boards to identify them.
But the real story here is how people registered to vote in this election for the first time in record numbers. Poor folks and inner city folks and young folks registered in record numbers, Greta, and we're kind of proud of that work.


LEVENSON: But Greta, the important thing is that ACORN showed its due diligence, identified the local officials, and we aggressively recruited new voters to the system. That's an exciting thing.
VAN SUSTEREN: I got that. That is very exciting. But what's not exciting is someone who registers 73 times, because the problem it sends to the rest of us a message that the election's going to be a fraud.
LEVENSON: That's why we brought it to the local elector's attention. That's why we did our due diligence.
VAN SUSTEREN: You've got the problem in Nevada.
LEVENSON: That's why we set up a process to identify it.
Every problem that you're racing is a problem that we pointed out. That's important for you viewers to know. We are required to turn over forms. We were required to take forms and turn it over. That's what we were required to do under law.
FOXNews.com - ACORN Responds to Palin Attack and More - Greta Van Susteren | On The Record With Greta

^ ACORN is showing due diligence? Beg to differ.

What I haven't read about yet is Ohio's "register and vote the same day" info. How many phony ballots were cast there?

Elections officials state that registering under a fake name is illegal, however they usually catch multiple registrations and get rid of them. But where the major risk of fraud in large canvassing efforts such as ACORN's comes into play is the possibility of ineligible voters filing absentee ballots, and then avoiding checks at polling places.
ACORN Voter Fraud Investigations Underway in Key Swing State of Ohio | Cleveland Leader

Right. No photo ID required. Register and vote the same day!

It's striking me as rather amusing that some of the members of the right on this forum seem to suddenly be taking an active interest in voter-fraud and legitimate elections. Wonder if they were so concerned back in 2000?

^Like what fraud, eh?

Again, you are totally clueless - out of your depth.

Must stem from an overbearing inferiority complex - y'all coming from some little insignificant island who absolutely nobody is concerned with other than making movies, eh?

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Like what fraud, eh?

Like, this one:-

Karl Rove's ssistant Busted in Scheme of Massive Voter Fraud

Timothy Griffin, Karl Rove's assistant, the President's pick as US Attorney for the Eastern District of Arkansas, was the hidden hand behind a scheme to wipe out the voting rights of 70,000 citizens prior to the 2004 election.

Key voters on Griffin's hit list: Black soldiers and homeless men and women. Nice guy, eh? Targeting voters where race is a factor is a felony crime under the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

In October 2004, our investigations team at BBC Newsnight received a series of astonishing emails from Mr. Griffin, then Research Director for the Republican National Committee. He didn't mean to send them to us. They were highly confidential memos meant only for RNC honchos.

However, Griffin made a wee mistake. Instead of sending the emails -- potential evidence of a crime -- to email addresses ending with the domain name "[at]GeorgeWBush.com" he sent them to "[at]GeorgeWBush.ORG." A website run by prankster John Wooden who owns "GeorgeWBush.org." When Wooden got the treasure trove of Rove-ian ravings, he sent them to us.

And we dug in, decoding, and mapping the voters on what Griffin called, "Caging" lists, spreadsheets with 70,000 names of voters marked for challenge. Overwhelmingly, these were Black and Hispanic voters from Democratic precincts.

The Griffin scheme was sickly brilliant. We learned that the RNC sent first-class letters to new voters in minority precincts marked, "Do not forward." Several sheets contained nothing but soldiers, other sheets, homeless shelters. Targets included the Jacksonville Naval Air Station in Florida and that city's State Street Rescue Mission. Another target, Edward Waters College, a school for African-Americans.

If these voters were not currently at their home voting address, they were tagged as "suspect" and their registration wiped out or their ballot challenged and not counted. Of course, these 'cages' captured thousands of students, the homeless and those in the military though they are legitimate voters.
We telephoned those on the hit list, including one Randall Prausa. His wife admitted he wasn't living at his voting address: Randall was a soldier shipped overseas.

Karl Rove's ssistant Busted in Scheme of Massive Voter Fraud

And heres Wiki's report about some of the shenanigans in the last two elections:-

Specific issues concerning the voting process:-

Voter registration

Facilitating voter registration was the main goal of the National Voter Registration Act of 1993. States were required to make registration more widely available, notably through driver's license agencies (hence the nickname "Motor Voter Act"). In 2004, however, there were incidents in several states in which people who had submitted registration forms through a motor vehicle agency were not found on the voter rolls on Election Day.

There were also complaints about the rejection of registrations by government agencies. College students encountered difficulties in registering where they attended school. Some officials rejected voter registration forms on grounds that were contested, such as a failure to use paper of a particular weight (Ohio) or a failure to check a box on the form (Florida).

Aside from such official actions, there were disputes about other voter registration activities. In Nevada and Oregon, a company hired by the Republican National Committee solicited voter registration forms, but was accused of filing only the Republicans’ forms and shredding those completed by Democrats. A nonprofit organization, ACORN, was accused of submitting false voter registration forms and of carelessly or deliberately failing to submit some valid ones that it had received.

Purges of voter lists

State efforts to purge voter rolls have led to disputes, notably in Florida. Before the 2000 election, Florida officials purged 57,700 registered voters on the grounds that they were convicted felons (and therefore ineligible to vote under Florida law). Many of those whose names were purged were "false positives" (not actually felons). (See Florida Central Voter File.) A post-election lawsuit brought by the NAACP, the People for the American Way Foundation, and other organizations resulted in a settlement in 2002 in which the state agreed to restore eligible voters to the rolls and take other steps to improve election procedures.

The issue returned to prominence in 2004 when Florida announced another planned purge, again based on a list of felons. The state government initially attempted to keep the list secret. When a court ordered its release, it was found to contain mostly Democrats and a disproportionate number of racial minorities. Faced with media documentation that the list included thousands of errors, the state abandoned the attempt to use it. Some of the voters improperly purged in 2000 had not been restored as of May 2004.

Voter suppression

The term "voter suppression" is used to describe methods of discouraging or impeding people from voting. The government agency or private entity doing so believes that the would-be voters thus turned away would have been more likely to vote for an opponent. For example, Dennis Kucinch described voter suppression in his state, Ohio:
Dirty tricks occurred across the state, including phony letters from Boards of Elections telling people that their registration through some Democratic activist groups were invalid and that Kerry voters were to report on Wednesday because of massive voter turnout. Phone calls to voters giving them erroneous polling information were also common. John Pappageorge, a Republican state legislator in Michigan said in the summer of 2004, "If we do not suppress the Detroit vote, we're going to have a tough time in this election."

Exit polling

The 2004 election brought new attention to the issue of exit polls, which are generally considered more reliable than pre-election opinion polls. Many pointed to widespread discrepancies between exit polls conducted during Election Day and the officially reported results. They pointed out that the official results were more favorable to Bush than were the polls, and that these discrepancies were more likely to arise in swing states.

Full Article- 2004 United States election voting controversies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Voter fraud is a serious issue, and should be absolutely eliminated anywhere it is found- otherwise people lose faith in the democratic process. It is pretty obvious on the balance of evidence however that it is the Democrats who have suffered from this far worse than the GOP, and who probably have more to fear in the coming election also, given some blatantly prejudiced attempts to exclude qualified individuals from voting on the flimsiest of grounds- as previously co-ordinated by Karl Rove and his minions.

I suspect that some of the Right wing Republican bitterness about Obama stems from this very fact- he is just plain too smart, and wise to their dirty tricks. Obama has been running a 'register to vote' campaign for a couple of years now, and I am not just talking about Acorn- which incidentally received around $80,000 from the Dem's, not the $800,000 being bandied about.

Ironic, and predictable, that it is the Republicans making the most noise about voter fraud. A Smokescreen perhaps?

According to Democratic attorney Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.:

But what is most anomalous about the irregularities in 2004 was their decidedly partisan bent: Almost without exception they hurt John Kerry and benefited George Bush. After carefully examining the evidence, I've become convinced that the president's party mounted a massive, coordinated campaign to subvert the will of the people in 2004. Across the country, Republican election officials and party stalwarts employed a wide range of illegal and unethical tactics to fix the election. A review of the available data reveals that in Ohio alone, at least 357,000 voters, the overwhelming majority of them Democratic, were prevented from casting ballots or did not have their votes counted in 2004 -- more than enough to shift the results of an election decided by 118,601 votes. ... In what may be the single most astounding fact from the election, one in every four Ohio citizens who registered to vote in 2004 showed up at the polls only to discover that they were not listed on the rolls, thanks to GOP efforts to stem the unprecedented flood of Democrats eager to cast ballots. And that doesn’t even take into account the troubling evidence of outright fraud, which indicates that upwards of 80,000 votes for Kerry were counted instead for Bush. That alone is a swing of more than 160,000 votes -- enough to have put John Kerry in the White House.

Journalist Greg Palast came to the same conclusion

2004 United States election voting controversies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

^&^^
The Republicans have the unique ability to conveniently forget or ignore stuff like this.

To hear them tell it Dubbya never lied and misled the American people over Iraq but Clinton perjured himself whilst in office; the media's left-wing and biased against them even though all mainstream media falied in their duty leading up to the Iraq war and were even complicit in beating the drums/sounding the propaganda; and voter fraud only counts when it counts against them, 2000 and 2004 were merely 'anomalies'.

The Republicans have the unique ability to conveniently forget or ignore stuff like this.

Republicans are playing catch up. You don't understand that for for years Republicans have been content to be the sleepy foot dragging opposition to Democrat agendas. Reagan changed that. Republicans see they they can actually participate in the process and get their wishes implemented.

Republicans are learning how the game is played by the leftists. Rove is an example of dirty tricks coming up to par with Democrats. More and more Republicans are reading leftist political strategy. Saul Alinsky is getting a good reviewing this election. More and more people are catching on.

We need Michelle Obama to make more references to Alinsky. The cat is out of the bag.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

^&^^
The Republicans have the unique ability to conveniently forget or ignore stuff like this.

To hear them tell it Dubbya never lied and misled the American people over Iraq but Clinton perjured himself whilst in office

But Clinton did commit perjury.
Nothing wrong with crossing off homeless people from the voting list -- that is one requisite for voting -- a legal home address. Dunno about the black army veteran stuff. Give us a linkie.

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

But Clinton did commit perjury.

You're kinda missing the point, I never said he didn't. What I'm saying is that this is something that was (obviously) discussed at the time and still is today yet, in stark contrast, Bush misleads and lies to the American public with the end result that they're mired in an unnecessary war and the majority of Republicans tend to suffer short-term amnesia over this. Same with the other examples I mentioned.

Originally Posted by attaboy

The Republicans have the unique ability to conveniently forget or ignore stuff like this.

Republicans are playing catch up. You don't understand that for for years Republicans have been content to be the sleepy foot dragging opposition to Democrat agendas. Reagan changed that. Republicans see they they can actually participate in the process and get their wishes implemented.

Republicans are learning how the game is played by the leftists. Rove is an example of dirty tricks coming up to par with Democrats. More and more Republicans are reading leftist political strategy. Saul Alinsky is getting a good reviewing this election. More and more people are catching on.

We need Michelle Obama to make more references to Alinsky. The cat is out of the bag.

Thanks for proving my point for me.

You have the floor and the mic. Keep going.

Originally Posted by attaboy

You have the floor and the mic. Keep going.

Why, I've already made my point.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

To hear them tell it Dubbya never lied and misled the American people over Iraq.

Many Reps acknowledge inaccuracies. After 9/11, the threat of WMDs was a priority. Rather have a screwup on intelligence than another attack on US soil.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

The Republicans have the unique ability to conveniently forget or ignore stuff like this.

Huh, just heard BO in the last prez debate tonight and he conveniently forgot stuff about Ayers (I would say he lied on that point), his ACORN associations and contributions (erm, I'd call that a lie, too), his voting record on partial birth abortions (I guess if he only voted present that don't count), and his tax policies (erm, only the rich will spread the wealth, but Joe Plumber has gotta learn to distribute the wealth, too). OK. His closing statement was the scariest, with his note that we all have to make sacrifices (I'm paraphrasisng as I don't have the transcript).
Hello, Socialsit America! Come to Canada; at least we were smart enought to vote Harper in again, even with only a slightly larger minority. Give us time to make it a majority.

The election will be a blowout. fraud only matters in a close election.

Originally Posted by jim1176

The election will be a blowout. fraud only matters in a close election.

Agree. Also, characterizing as in the OP as "Mass" fraud hardly fits reality. The amount of "fraudulent" registrations as a percentage of the millions of registered voters is so insignificant it is hardly worth mentioning. Also, looks like the questionable registrations are being dealt with and rejected.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Originally Posted by attaboy

Originally Posted by Ant

The Republicans have the unique ability to conveniently forget or ignore stuff like this.

Republicans are playing catch up. You don't understand that for for years Republicans have been content to be the sleepy foot dragging opposition to Democrat agendas. Reagan changed that. Republicans see they they can actually participate in the process and get their wishes implemented.

Republicans are learning how the game is played by the leftists. Rove is an example of dirty tricks coming up to par with Democrats. More and more Republicans are reading leftist political strategy. Saul Alinsky is getting a good reviewing this election. More and more people are catching on.

We need Michelle Obama to make more references to Alinsky. The cat is out of the bag.

Thanks for proving my point for me.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Originally Posted by attaboy

You have the floor and the mic. Keep going.

Why, I've already made my point.

You'll have to elaborate. I didn't ignore the previous posts. I said Rove is an example of Republicans catching on and catching up. People on the right are reading books about leftist political strategy by guys like Saul Alinsky. People are beginning to understand how the leftists are playing the game. What's the matter with Democrats? They are getting a dose of their own medicine.


Mayor Daley of Chicago helped to get Jack Kennedy elected president via voter fraud. That's a fact in the history books. It's got to be on a grand scale and obvious to all for a stain like that to be acknowledged. I mean who wants it on their city's public record of achievements?

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

^&^^
The Republicans have the unique ability to conveniently forget or ignore stuff like this.

To hear them tell it Dubbya never lied and misled the American people over Iraq but Clinton perjured himself whilst in office

But Clinton did commit perjury.
Nothing wrong with crossing off homeless people from the voting list -- that is one requisite for voting -- a legal home address. Dunno about the black army veteran stuff. Give us a linkie.

Whoa, guess Pickel voted socialist NDP in Canada. They lost. Seems I ruffled more than his feathers with my comments above for him to call me a "fascist bitch". How are my comments fascist? And bitch, too? Your choice of local candidate musta lost, too. Sorry for you.

Which is it Pickel:
1) people with no fixed address should not be allowed to vote? (gotta prove a fixed address, even in Canada)
2)black army vets -- I asked for a link; I haven't disputed this, I just don't recall the info.

Mass Fraud Fears In US...16-10-2008 09:39 PMpickelfascist bitch

Higher voter turnout tends to help Dems. Lower voter turnout tends to help the GOP.

The GOP has made a strategic decision to keep people from voting, by using typos, a middle initial, an added or missing apartment number in the Social Security and Motor Vehicle databases.

300,000 voters were barred from voting in Ohio in 2004. Here is a brief background on the current Ohio situation.

Interestingly, since Jan, 2007, over 600,000 new registered voters have happened.

^ The problem is that Obama is wise to this tactic, and so is the Media.

I doubt they will be able to fudge these elections.

The high profile 'raid' on Acorn in Las Vegas appears to be blatantly politically motivated too.

A worrying segment of the Republican faithful just do not really believe in the democratic process, I'm afraid.

^^ Jeez, this is not just Ohio- also Montana, Michigan and Nevada.

It seems the brains trust of the GOP has realised they have lost the mandate of the people, and are instead trying to steal these elections. I do hope the Obama campaign lets the US voting public know about this, in no uncertain terms.

Originally Posted by attaboy

You'll have to elaborate. I didn't ignore the previous posts. I said Rove is an example of Republicans catching on and catching up. People on the right are reading books about leftist political strategy by guys like Saul Alinsky. People are beginning to understand how the leftists are playing the game. What's the matter with Democrats? They are getting a dose of their own medicine.


Mayor Daley of Chicago helped to get Jack Kennedy elected president via voter fraud. That's a fact in the history books. It's got to be on a grand scale and obvious to all for a stain like that to be acknowledged. I mean who wants it on their city's public record of achievements?

A Republican President has been in office for the last 8yrs, during which time elections were 'won' by any number of dubious and outright nefarious tactics. During this entire period the Democrats have bemoaned their inability or unwillingness to adopt or adapt to such tactics - Kerry's defeat in '04 has in a large part been laid at the feet of his failure to respond soon enough to the 'Swfit Boat' attacks; what does that tell you when a concerted campaign of lies and distortions is the defining measure in an election?

To suggest that Republicans are somehow only now catching onto Democrat tactics is taking quite some liberty and a rewriting and revisionism of recent history. And that, in a nutshell, was my original point; the seemingly innate ability of Republicans to conveniently 'forget' or ignore. One example of this is the current gnashing of teeth or voter fraud in the upcoming election. To this point it's not bothered them much has it.