VP Picks

**Bugs** · 29-08-2008, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by raycarey

Originally Posted by Bugs

To get as big a picture of things as possible it is awaly good to at least take a look at what folks from both sides have to say.

when the sources are reputable, of course.

sorry, but newsmax.com doesn't meet the criteria.

You might not like or even give credence to the source but was the meat of what they said incorrect at the time it was published?

Did Biden not get caught plagiarizing while a Syracuse?
Biden Admits Plagiarism in School But Says It Was Not 'Malevolent' - New York Times

Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., fighting to salvage his Presidential campaign, today acknowledged ''a mistake'' in his youth, when he plagiarized a law review article for a paper he wrote in his first year at law school.

Did Biden not lie and say he that he graduated in the top half of his class when in fact he graduated 76 out of 85?
Biden Admits Errors and Criticizes Latest Report - New York Times

In his statement today, Mr. Biden, who attended the Syracuse College of Law and graduated 76th in a class of 85, acknowledged: ''I did not graduate in the top half of my class at law school and my recollection of this was inacurate.''

Did Biden not again stoop to plagiarism during his 1988 run for president?
Washingtonpost.com Special Report: Clinton Accused

The controversy became two frenzies in one when it was disclosed that the campaign of Massachusetts Gov. Michael S. Dukakis had earlier secretly distributed to several news media outlets an "attack video" juxtaposing the Biden and Kinnock speeches and revealing Biden's word theft.

Did Binden again try to run for president in ’08, and get a paltry number of votes in the attempt?
Election Center 2008: Primary Results by date - Elections & Politics news from CNN.com

Biden - Iowa primary votes - 2,328 - he dropped out soon after

Did Biden not propose carving up Iraq into three autonomous regions?
Biden proposes partitioning Iraq - Conflict in Iraq - MSNBC.com

The senior Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee proposed Monday that Iraq be divided into three separate regions — Kurdish, Shiite and Sunni — with a central government in Baghdad.

Did Biden not help to pass new bankruptcy rules, and did his son work for the credit card company special interests groups that benifited from the passing of that law?
The Associated Press: MBNA paid Biden son at critical time for bill

A son of Democratic vice presidential candidate Joe Biden was paid an undisclosed amount of money as a consultant by MBNA, the largest employer in Delaware, during the years the senator supported legislation that was promoted by the credit card industry and opposed by consumer groups.

Obama Differed With Biden On Two Key Business Votes - WSJ.com

Mr. Biden (D., Del.) was an ardent Democratic supporter of a major bankruptcy overhaul in 2005, much to the dismay of consumer groups and the delight of Delaware's massive credit-card companies, such as MBNA Corp. That same year, Mr. Biden voted against class-action reform legislation sought by corporations.

A few other linkys about Biden and financial issues:
Biden Family Financial Connections Detailed - Washington Post Investigations

Democratic vice presidential candidate Joe Biden is facing some questions about his family's lobbying and financial dealings.

ABC News: Should Biden Share Blame for Foreclosure Crisis?

Experts say hundreds of thousands of Americans may have lost their homes due to a bill championed by Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del., Barack Obama's vice-presidential running mate.

Congressional Republicans drove the effort to pass the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act (BAPCPA) of 2005. But Biden – who has enjoyed hundreds of thousands of dollars in campaign donations from credit industry executives – endorsed the measure early on and worked to gather Democratic support for it.

And one more artical about Biden love of stealing the words of others, and some of his past lies thrown in for good measure:
Biden's history of lies and lifted quotes :: CHICAGO SUN-TIMES :: Commentary

Biden got in trouble in 1965, during his first year in law school. He wrote a paper in which he lifted five pages verbatim from the Fordham Law Review. He was given an “F” in the course. He managed to avoid being bounced from law school, retook the course and earned a B.

He claimed that he was “the only one in my class to have a full academic scholarship.” He didn’t. He did have a half scholarship that was need-based.

He did not graduate from law school in the top half of his class. He graduated 76th out of 85 — and he was near the bottom of his class all three years.

If he won the moot court competition — and he claimed at the time that he actually did — he did not put it on his resume, surprising for a man prone to so egregiously exaggerating his accomplishments.

He did not win the award for being the outstanding student in the political science department at Delaware, and he graduated with one degree, not three. He had a “C” average and graduated 506th in a class of 688.

**raycarey** · 29-08-2008, 05:43 PM

quit while you're behind bugs.....these quotes are from the article you cited....

Joe Biden has always exhibited a smug sense of superiority.

Biden behaved like an infantile idiot

Biden soon might sit a heartbeat away from the presidency — and thereby, God forbid, become president by an act of fate, or of Satan.

why not just admit you're a rabid partisan...in fact, why not embrace it....why waste all that energy (and bandwith) pretending you're not?

you read newsmax.com.....you're not the only one here at TD guilty of that.

**Bugs** · 29-08-2008, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by raycarey

quit while you're behind bugs.....these quotes are from the article you cited....

Joe Biden has always exhibited a smug sense of superiority.

Biden behaved like an infantile idiot

Biden soon might sit a heartbeat away from the presidency — and thereby, God forbid, become president by an act of fate, or of Satan.

why not just admit you're a rabid partisan...in fact, why not embrace it....why waste all that energy (and bandwith) pretending you're not?

you read newsmax.com.....you're not the only one here at TD guilty of that.

Forest for the trees ol' RC.

Was the meat of the artical incorrect?

**Bugs** · 29-08-2008, 06:39 PM

Also quotes from my post that linked to newsmax.com, with the supporting link from an additional source in by above post. I did not think it would be necessary to go into such detail - but here it is:

Newsmax.com quote:

Originally Posted by Bugs

Joe Biden has always exhibited a smug sense of superiority. When caught plagiarizing an article at Syracuse College of Law, Biden successfully pleaded with the faculty not to expel him.

Supporting link and quote:
Biden Admits Plagiarism in School But Says It Was Not 'Malevolent' - New York Times

Originally Posted by Bugs

Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., fighting to salvage his Presidential campaign, today acknowledged ''a mistake'' in his youth, when he plagiarized a law review article for a paper he wrote in his first year at law school.

Newsmax.com quote:

Originally Posted by Bugs

Biden has tried to cheat “smarter.” He boasted that he graduated in the top half of his Syracuse Law class; in fact, Biden graduated 76th in a class of 85.

Supporting link and quote:
Biden Admits Errors and Criticizes Latest Report - New York Times

Originally Posted by Bugs

In his statement today, Mr. Biden, who attended the Syracuse College of Law and graduated 76th in a class of 85, acknowledged: ''I did not graduate in the top half of my class at law school and my recollection of this was inacurate.''

Newsmax.com quote:

Originally Posted by Bugs

Almost being expelled from law school for cheating did not end Biden’s crookedness. During his 1988 run for the presidency, Biden plagiarized a speech by British Labour politician Neil Kinnock that described his coal-miner father. Biden’s father was a used car salesman.

After Massachusetts Gov. Michael Dukakis distributed videotape of Kinnock and Biden’s plagiarism, Biden quit the race.

Supporting link and quote:
Washingtonpost.com Special Report: Clinton Accused

Originally Posted by Bugs

The controversy became two frenzies in one when it was disclosed that the campaign of Massachusetts Gov. Michael S. Dukakis had earlier secretly distributed to several news media outlets an "attack video" juxtaposing the Biden and Kinnock speeches and revealing Biden's word theft.

Newsmax.com quote:

Originally Posted by Bugs

Biden ran for president again in 2008, winning 9,000 votes nationwide to Hillary Clinton’s 18 million votes. Despite this public repudiation, however, Biden soon might sit a heartbeat away from the presidency — and thereby, God forbid, become president by an act of fate, or of Satan.

Supporting link and quote:
Election Center 2008: Primary Results by date - Elections & Politics news from CNN.com

Originally Posted by Bugs

Biden - Iowa primary votes - 2,328 - he dropped out soon after

Newsmax.com quote:

Originally Posted by Bugs

How competent is Joseph Biden at foreign policy? He has proposed carving Iraq into three autonomous regions, much as Julius Caesar did with Gaul two millennia ago. (His plan oddly parallels what this columnist had earlier proposed, but I doubt he plagiarized me.)

Supporting link and quote:
Biden proposes partitioning Iraq - Conflict in Iraq - MSNBC.com

Originally Posted by Bugs

The senior Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee proposed Monday that Iraq be divided into three separate regions — Kurdish, Shiite and Sunni — with a central government in Baghdad.

Newsmax.com quote:

Originally Posted by Bugs

But at least Biden is a pro-working-class, no? No. Biden represents the giant corporations and banks chartered in Delaware, and he helped them tighten bankruptcy rules for credit card debt on middle class Americans. His son Hunter Biden’s law firm was being paid $1.8 million to lobby Congress by some of these same special interests, according to the Aug. 25 USA Today.

This bit covers the bankruptcy bill:
Obama Differed With Biden On Two Key Business Votes - WSJ.com

Originally Posted by Bugs

Mr. Biden (D., Del.) was an ardent Democratic supporter of a major bankruptcy overhaul in 2005, much to the dismay of consumer groups and the delight of Delaware's massive credit-card companies, such as MBNA Corp. That same year, Mr. Biden voted against class-action reform legislation sought by corporations.

The Associated Press: MBNA paid Biden son at critical time for bill
This bit covers his sons relations with MBNA:

Originally Posted by Bugs

A son of Democratic vice presidential candidate Joe Biden was paid an undisclosed amount of money as a consultant by MBNA, the largest employer in Delaware, during the years the senator supported legislation that was promoted by the credit card industry and opposed by consumer groups.

Granted I did not cover every point - Skipped the bit about the Senator Judiciary Committee, as any supporting links would likely also be partisan, also the bit about Iran as I was not old enough to know how much support Biden had for Carter nor Bidens views on the situation, also the the last bit because I already said I did not quite agree with that bit.

All the bits you highlighted are just surface insults that don't mean squat in regard to the validity of the meat of the artical.

**raycarey** · 29-08-2008, 06:42 PM

i've never doubted that you find newsmax.com to be a credible source.

**Bugs** · 29-08-2008, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by raycarey

i've never doubted that you find newsmax.com to be a credible source.

And I've never doubted that you would ignore the facts because of the source.

**pai nai ma** · 29-08-2008, 08:07 PM

Pawlenty says he isn't the guy.

**britmaveric** · 29-08-2008, 08:38 PM

Hmmm looks more like a woman..... Palin??? (governor of Alaska)

**DrivingForce** · 29-08-2008, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by Bugs

Originally Posted by raycarey

i've never doubted that you find newsmax.com to be a credible source.

And I've never doubted that you would ignore the facts because of the source.

Is this a dispute between 2 left thinkers? based on what i've been reading previously I would say it is, and it seems that Ray is having a problem with one on his own side of the isle? that is priceless.... Not that they shouldn't have a differing view but it really flies on the face of all of those incriminating suggestions that it is just the right side that disagrees with rc, kind of really paints him the radical doesn't it?

It seems that Bugs is far more grounded and able to view this objectively which would also be apperant if I can't even difinitivly distinguish which side of the isle he stands on, should I have made the wrong distinction..

I agree with Bugs if the facts are credible and verifiable the source is irrelevant...........

**barbaro** · 29-08-2008, 09:12 PM

You got it first off of the press, Brit:

It's probably:

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin Is McCain's VP Pick: Source
Posted By:John Harwood

Link: Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin Is McCain's VP Pick: Source - Your Money Your Vote * News * Special Report - CNBC.com

**raycarey** · 29-08-2008, 09:21 PM

so, the 72 year old cancer patient is going to have a first term governor ( not even two years in office), of the least populated state be his VP?

sounds like a great pick to me!

and i wonder what will the boys on here have to say about her being 'an empty suit' who is 'not ready to lead'.

**raycarey** · 29-08-2008, 09:27 PM

if it's her, i'm looking forward to the VP debate.

**barbaro** · 29-08-2008, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by raycarey

so, the 72 year old cancer patient is going to have a first term governor ( not even two years in office), of the least populated state be his VP?

sounds like a great pick to me!

and i wonder what will the boys on here have to say about her being 'an empty suit' who is 'not ready to lead'.

This is what I was thinking, right away.

The Obama campaign can use the McCain VP pick as ammunition.

We'll see.

**britmaveric** · 29-08-2008, 09:51 PM

Won't be attacking a woman - excellent strategic pick for McCain and allows all the disappointed Hillary supporters a woman they can believe in.

**raycarey** · 29-08-2008, 10:03 PM

you're always good for a laugh brit.

anyway, politico has confirmed it's palin.....should be an interesting two months.

**britmaveric** · 29-08-2008, 10:06 PM

Expect a huge bump in the polls for McCain - dbl digits I expect.

**SEA Traveler** · 29-08-2008, 10:10 PM

DENVER - John McCain tapped little-known Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin to be his vice presidential running mate on Friday in a startling selection on the eve of the Republican National Convention.

McCain said to choose Alaska gov as running mate. - Yahoo! News

**raycarey** · 29-08-2008, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by britmaveric

Expect a huge bump in the polls for McCain - dbl digits I expect.

someone expects mccain to get at least a ten point bump because he chose palin?
surely this is some sort of typo.
oh, sorry.
it's a brit maverick post.
carry on.

**SEA Traveler** · 29-08-2008, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by raycarey

Originally Posted by britmaveric

Expect a huge bump in the polls for McCain - dbl digits I expect.

someone expects mccain to get at least a ten point bump because he chose palin?
surely this is some sort of typo.
oh, sorry.
it's a brit maverick post.
carry on.

correct on the typo. should have been "20 point bump up"..

**panama hat** · 29-08-2008, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by britmaveric

Won't be attacking a woman - excellent strategic pick for McCain and allows all the disappointed Hillary supporters a woman they can believe in.

A completely cynical and politically-motivated choice. Would the spin doctors really believe that the voters are as dumb as Thai voters and will just swallow this pandering. On what basis would she fit the criteria?

with Polish and Irish ancestryHe has to chose a minority or a female . . . blacks and septuagenarians/retirees are taken so he goes for the biggest 'minority' . . . I'm surprised he hasn't found a Hispanic, left-handed female.

I'm sorry, but if this is the case then US politics are a complete joke, and this is the latest chapter in a big book of cynical ploys.

Disgusting.

**Norton** · 29-08-2008, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by panama hat

On what basis was she chosen?

Reference my bolded. Also, she's a republican.

**panama hat** · 29-08-2008, 10:29 PM

Well yes, these two are obvious, but what does she bring . . .

Ah, I give up with this crap circus.

**britmaveric** · 29-08-2008, 10:36 PM

^Hillary's democratic women supporters.

**raycarey** · 29-08-2008, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by panama hat

cynical ploy

surely women will be able to see through this...and if they don't initially, i'm sure the DNC and various 527s will be more than willing to help them connect the dots.

**raycarey** · 29-08-2008, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by britmaveric

Hillary's democratic women supporters.

why would stridently feminist, pro-choice women vote for someone who is fanatically anti-choice?

and to further add to the cynical aspect of this choice....this is such a ham-fisted pick, that it could very well end up turning independent women off and make them stay home on election day.

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